Post by: T-Dozzer on November 21, 2015, 09:51:03 PM
I know higher run and start up wattage is better. I'm thinking something around the 3000 to 5000 running watts. It doesn't need to be super quiet since it will be outside. It will be powering a chest freezer, fridge, maybe a light or 2.
I will eventually have my breaker box wired for it.
Would like to stay under $500 as it won't get much use and not opposed to a used one.
Anything to watch out for or stay away from?
How imperative is a super heavy duty extension cord?
Here is what I had in mind down the road for my breaker box.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-Generator-to-Home-Hook-Up/?ALLSTEPS
Post by: Special T on November 21, 2015, 10:13:58 PM
While you have power now map out which breakers power what and write it down so that when power does go down you dont have to charge the whole house. the same circut that powers my fridge also has a number of lights in it. same with the freezer
Post by: KFhunter on November 21, 2015, 10:38:22 PM
Honestly I'd just wait until summer time when no one wants a generator and catch some sales. Friend of mine just called a generator place and they were booked solid, said call back in two weeks.
for your budget just run extension cords. Put the heaviest one on the generator then go lighter as you split them off to various things you want to power
Post by: huntnphool on November 21, 2015, 10:40:15 PM
That's illegal and I also understand that it's hard on breakers?
Honestly I'd just wait until summer time when no one wants a generator and catch some sales. Friend of mine just called a generator place and they were booked solid, said call back in two weeks.
+1
Post by: follow maggie on November 21, 2015, 10:43:02 PM
Post by: jackelope on November 21, 2015, 10:59:52 PM
Turning the main breaker off does not prevent back flow onto the grid. You need a transfer switch, which is not expensive. Doing it without the transfer switch endangers the line workers restoring the power.
If the main is open, how does power get back to the grid?
Post by: kenzmad on November 21, 2015, 11:06:58 PM
Turning the main breaker off does not prevent back flow onto the grid. You need a transfer switch, which is not expensive. Doing it without the transfer switch endangers the line workers restoring the power.
I have this before. Something about the nuetral being hot. Not sure how that works since nuetral and ground are basically the same. Can you help us understand your comment? Always thought that once the main is thrown, power is unable to backfeed the transformers.
Post by: follow maggie on November 21, 2015, 11:31:36 PM
Post by: Crunchy on November 21, 2015, 11:32:02 PM
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 21, 2015, 11:38:05 PM
That's illegal and I also understand that it's hard on breakers?
Honestly I'd just wait until summer time when no one wants a generator and catch some sales. Friend of mine just called a generator place and they were booked solid, said call back in two weeks.
for your budget just run extension cords. Put the heaviest one on the generator then go lighter as you split them off to various things you want to power
Whats illegal, what Special T said or the link I posted?
Running a cord to my freezer in the garage is fine, but it's a pain to run one into the house. Hence hooking it up to my panel. I have a buddy ( licensed electrician) who would be doing it.
I'll worry about the panel later. For now, I'm just researching generators.
Post by: follow maggie on November 21, 2015, 11:44:40 PM
Post by: kenzmad on November 21, 2015, 11:59:10 PM
Post by: jackelope on November 22, 2015, 07:17:08 AM
Ok, here is my setup. Very similar to a generator interlock. Empty 220v breaker dedicated to a generator plug in box outside. Breaker is turned off at all times. Power goes out, generator is plugged in and fired up. Go to the panel, there is a sticky note on the generator breaker that says " turn off main breaker first". Throw the main, flip on the generator breaker.house is powered up. Problems? Concerns?Pretty much what I do and pretty much what follow Maggie is saying is illegal because you don't have a transfer switch. Not sure. I have a transfer box. I just need to get it installed. I'm an expert procrastinator.
Post by: Special T on November 22, 2015, 07:29:49 AM
I understand I am liable if i hurt or kill some one, but I still have not gotten the answer of how you can back feed with the main breaker off. If i switch the main breaker off to connect appliances/ lights and such and dont get shocked how can i send it up the line?
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2015, 09:11:47 PM
Mostly they're GFI safety breakers.
In summary, circuit breakers with ground fault protection that is line
powered, such as those with a pigtail connection, are not suitable for
backfeeding. The terminals on these circuit breakers are clearly marked
“line” and “load”. This includes Square D™ QO™ and Homeline™ circuit
breakers with GFCI (5 mA) and QO and Homeline circuit breakers with low
level GFPE (30 mA) protection.
Circuit breakers with ground fault protection that is fault powered, such as
larger molded case, insulated case and low voltage power circuit breakers,
may be suitable for backfeeding. If they are, their terminals will not be
marked “line” and “load”. All Square D PowerPact™ and Masterpact™
circuit breakers with Micrologic™ electronic trip units are suitable for
backfeeding.
Square D add-on ground-fault modules for PowerPact H- and J-frame
molded case circuit breakers are also suitable for backfeeding.
Square D add-on earth-leakage modules for PowerPact H- and J-frame
molded case circuit breakers are not suitable for backfeeding as they are
line-powered devices. The OFF end terminals on these modules are
marked “load”.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on November 22, 2015, 09:20:36 PM
Did not know it was "Illegal". However if an "Interlock" kit is legal then how can it be unsafe to do so on your own? http://www.interlockkit.com/ilkitworks1.htm
I understand I am liable if i hurt or kill some one, but I still have not gotten the answer of how you can back feed with the main breaker off. If i switch the main breaker off to connect appliances/ lights and such and dont get shocked how can i send it up the line?
It's not illegal when done correctly. The interlocks you link should allow one to properly isolate the house from the grid when using a generator. There can be other issues such as load calcs and local interpretations which may make such usage non compliant
Post by: Special T on November 23, 2015, 11:36:00 AM
I still havent found or heard from the critics on here how I can hurt a linemen with the main breaker tripped.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk
Post by: Stein on November 23, 2015, 11:40:44 AM
Well the interlock looks like it just dummy proofs my sugestion of hitting the main breaker and then just using the priority breakers.
I still havent found or heard from the critics on here how I can hurt a linemen with the main breaker tripped.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk
You can't, but you also can't guarantee it will always happen according to plan. I use the interlock because not only am I not foolproof, I might not be there to do it and my wife or kids would be working it. I am a professional licensed engineer and electrician and I wouldn't trust myself.
If you connect a generator to the grid, very horrible things can happen to both people and the generator. The interlock is a few bucks.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on November 23, 2015, 11:47:45 AM
I would use a interlock in my house, but I would also understand the caveats.
Post by: C-Money on November 23, 2015, 04:24:56 PM
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 23, 2015, 04:34:31 PM
I have a 2500 watt Honda. If I ever need to, (been lucky) I will run a pair of extension cords into my home, and run what needs run. Maybe a light or TV on one, and the fridge on the other... Everything wont be powered at the same time, but it will be enough to get by...
Just a standard cord or heavier?
Post by: C-Money on November 23, 2015, 04:39:23 PM
I have a 2500 watt Honda. If I ever need to, (been lucky) I will run a pair of extension cords into my home, and run what needs run. Maybe a light or TV on one, and the fridge on the other... Everything wont be powered at the same time, but it will be enough to get by...
Just a standard cord or heavier?
I have a few heavier cords from my diesel block heater days I would use. I am no electrician... but seems like that would be fine in my mind. The cords on the frezer/firdge dont look to heavy. I would Probably rotate a 750watt electric heater in as well to take the chill off as needed.
Post by: Bofire on November 23, 2015, 05:49:45 PM
Carl
Post by: KFhunter on November 23, 2015, 06:00:35 PM
Post by: Rich_S on November 24, 2015, 07:23:00 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh171%2FClark_Savage_Jr%2FHouse%2FGenerator_zpsmhshdm9t.jpg&hash=82fe2c23a7a198261c574fc7e87096d7a2a3609f) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/Clark_Savage_Jr/media/House/Generator_zpsmhshdm9t.jpg.html)
Champion makes (and sells at Costco) several different models that are almost identical, but only this one runs on LPG. I think it was $600. BTW, I need to have 240 volts to run my well pump. Without water, the bourbon is to strong for a wuss like me.
Post by: KFhunter on November 24, 2015, 07:38:22 PM
If you need 5kw generator it will take a bigger LPG engine to achieve that over a gas or diesel engine.
It's not the ideal end of the world power your bunker solution though, diesel is king for those folks.
Post by: baker5150 on November 24, 2015, 07:45:21 PM
Well the interlock looks like it just dummy proofs my sugestion of hitting the main breaker and then just using the priority breakers.
I still havent found or heard from the critics on here how I can hurt a linemen with the main breaker tripped.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk
Energized neutral will find path of least resistance. Not always the ground buss if the ground bar isn't sufficient or even existent. Sometimes it's the neutral line out and into the neighbors ground or at the meter if it's landed. Lots of older homes out there win insufficient ground. Lots of old grid out there.
Think of the homeowner specials out there. Lineman can't trust that all homes are up to code. If your panel is well grounded your probably good to go. A test is never a bad idea.
Post by: baker5150 on November 24, 2015, 07:50:11 PM
I feel I'm money ahead at this point.
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 24, 2015, 08:24:18 PM
I use a 2500 watt from harbor freight. I think I paid $250 on sale 5 years ago. Runs like a top. Loud. But never had an issue with it. I run the heck out of it at elk and deer camp. I have a transfer switch at the house and run lights, freezer, furnace etc with no issue.
I feel I'm money ahead at this point.
How much stuff are able to run on 2500?
Post by: KFhunter on November 25, 2015, 04:18:55 PM
Post by: rosies or bust on November 25, 2015, 05:07:42 PM
http://www.solar1234.com/
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on November 25, 2015, 05:27:25 PM
Try this link to answer all your generator questions, including which generators are the best, and how to connect to your house. Ran across him on the Survival Podcast.
http://www.solar1234.com/
Nice find there! :tup:
Post by: Rich_S on November 25, 2015, 06:30:27 PM
LPG is a great way to go for intermittent short term standby use, as long as the LPG isn't your main source of heat. Also people on nat. gas can go that route too. Remember it takes 26% more LPG to do the work 1 gallon of gas, it takes 35% more LPG to do the work of 1 gallon of diesel.
If you need 5kw generator it will take a bigger LPG engine to achieve that over a gas or diesel engine.
It's not the ideal end of the world power your bunker solution though, diesel is king for those folks.
Both gas and diesel have drawbacks, too. Gasoline gets old and crappy after a very short time, diesel can grow bacteria and go bad, while LPG stays good almost indefinitely. LPG may take 25% more, but the cost is much less per gallon. I just paid $1.59/gallon to top off a couple of tanks and this is the time of year when the price is up. Price per kilowatt is far better with LPG. That is, if you own your own tank. Sign up for one of the rental tanks and you'll be paying over $4.00/gallon and locked in to only that vendor. Lots of pitfalls with a contract. If you don't use a certain amount, you'll pay for it anyway!
I did a lot of looking before making my choice - YMMV.
Post by: KFhunter on November 25, 2015, 07:00:15 PM
Everyone's situation is different and it sounds like you have a great setup.
Post by: baker5150 on November 25, 2015, 08:17:29 PM
I use a 2500 watt from harbor freight. I think I paid $250 on sale 5 years ago. Runs like a top. Loud. But never had an issue with it. I run the heck out of it at elk and deer camp. I have a transfer switch at the house and run lights, freezer, furnace etc with no issue.
I feel I'm money ahead at this point.
How much stuff are able to run on 2500?
Enough I guess. I run the furnace, some lights, tv, fridge and freezer at the same time. Not sure how often the freezer actually kicks on. We don't open it once the lights go out.
Post by: baker5150 on November 25, 2015, 08:19:02 PM
No you made a great choice. I use propane to heat the house so I wouldn't want to plug a generator into that. I use a farm diesel so a diesel makes since for me since I can keep the diesel rotated. Last year propane was nearly $5.00/gallon even if you owned your own tank, this year was the cheapest I've seen it for a long time. Propane prices are more volatile than either diesel or gasoline. Nice thing is you filled your tank at a cheap rate and most likely will last you many years before a refill.
Everyone's situation is different and it sounds like you have a great setup.
$5 a gallon? Whoa. I never saw more than $2.50 last year.
Post by: KFhunter on November 25, 2015, 08:33:23 PM
No you made a great choice. I use propane to heat the house so I wouldn't want to plug a generator into that. I use a farm diesel so a diesel makes since for me since I can keep the diesel rotated. Last year propane was nearly $5.00/gallon even if you owned your own tank, this year was the cheapest I've seen it for a long time. Propane prices are more volatile than either diesel or gasoline. Nice thing is you filled your tank at a cheap rate and most likely will last you many years before a refill.
Everyone's situation is different and it sounds like you have a great setup.
$5 a gallon? Whoa. I never saw more than $2.50 last year.
It was between Jan 2014 and early march 2014 - big spike that cost a lot of keep full customers, especially the rental customers. Ouch!
In-law got hammered by a shady company Ferrel Gas, they really gouge their customers.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on November 25, 2015, 11:22:46 PM
No you made a great choice. I use propane to heat the house so I wouldn't want to plug a generator into that. I use a farm diesel so a diesel makes since for me since I can keep the diesel rotated. Last year propane was nearly $5.00/gallon even if you owned your own tank, this year was the cheapest I've seen it for a long time. Propane prices are more volatile than either diesel or gasoline. Nice thing is you filled your tank at a cheap rate and most likely will last you many years before a refill.
Everyone's situation is different and it sounds like you have a great setup.
$5 a gallon? Whoa. I never saw more than $2.50 last year.
It was between Jan 2014 and early march 2014 - big spike that cost a lot of keep full customers, especially the rental customers. Ouch!
In-law got hammered by a shady company Ferrel Gas, they really gouge their customers.
Thread jack on this one. Ferrell Gas is a huge gouger to there customers!!!!! That is where I'll leave that comment. Carry on with generators. Honda all the way!!!!! :IBCOOL:
Post by: Rich_S on November 27, 2015, 12:02:18 PM
No you made a great choice. I use propane to heat the house so I wouldn't want to plug a generator into that. I use a farm diesel so a diesel makes since for me since I can keep the diesel rotated. Last year propane was nearly $5.00/gallon even if you owned your own tank, this year was the cheapest I've seen it for a long time. Propane prices are more volatile than either diesel or gasoline. Nice thing is you filled your tank at a cheap rate and most likely will last you many years before a refill.
Everyone's situation is different and it sounds like you have a great setup.
Yeah, mine's just a SHTF scenario. We've had very few power outages since Peninsula Light (serving Gig Harbor and surrounding areas) went on a tree trimming program a few years ago. I'm mainly preparing for an extended outage such as a Solar flare that takes out the grid. The big transformers might not be replace for months or years. My wife retired from purchasing for the utility and knew quite a bit about lead times for stuff like that.
We only use LPG for our kitchen range, so our existing 20 gallon tank lasts us a year or more. With conservation, the 250 gallon tank could be stretched a long, long time for the genset, plus with a flip of the switch, it can use gasoline.
Have to agree on Honda's though. Our 5KW was quiet, started first pull even after sitting for weeks or months, and gave us good service for 15 years, sometimes running (daytime only) for 2-3 weeks at a time. Only reason we changed was for the LPG capability.