Post by: Bwana Bob on November 24, 2015, 01:31:38 PM
She pointed a few chukars and a few pheasants during that 5 day old man pheasant hunt in Sept. So far she seemed like she was going to do well. Now for the reality check. I took her out for quail and all she would do was bust and chase them. I had to use my shock collar to get her to whoa and not chase them forever. I can understand the chasing as she is not broke to wing, but just noseing them up got me more than pissed. I hunted her with my old 13 yr old Britt that still holds a solid point hoping she would point when she did. Some times she did and some time she would take her point out. which really made me mad. I did no shooting when she flushed them. Well this weekend she decided to point and hold a point for a long time. I got 30 or so birds scattered out in the open sage. The old dog was on point beeper going off and she was 30yd away on point to. went to the old dogs point first but it went out on its own. When I got to her she wanted to creep in but a soft whoa and the collar kept her from moving in. I wounded that bird but both dog worked it and pointed it again over 100yd away, another solid point for her.
Should I just keep hunting her hoping she will get steady on quail or keep her in the kennel and do some more training this spring. Can't use the pheasant release sites now for training. I won't hunt her any longer with my old dog as she just follows her and doesn't hunt in front of me or listen to my commands unless I use the collar. I can't control my old dog because she is deaf so I rely on the beeper to know when she's on point. She runs a lot closer when its just us, almost too close for my liking. My old dog runs a lot bigger.
The plus side to this dog is that she is crazed about hunting and birds. She won't stop hunting until she back to the truck. She seems to have a willingness to please me but its a tuff love situation as she is a bit hard headed.
I guess my disappointment with her is not making that transition from planted birds to wild ones.The 4 Britts I had before her all made that transition very fast. . Man it sucks having to pass up on birds and coming home with 5 or 6 bird for two days hunting. It also sucks being 65 and knowing you may not be able to out hunt your last dog. I just don't want my last dog to be a marginal dog.
I hope I'm not sounding too critical and selfish but after having 3 britts before her that were exceptional life is still to short for a mediocre dog.
Any tips or tricks that will help her along will be much appreciated.
Bob
Post by: AspenBud on November 24, 2015, 01:38:44 PM
I would keep taking the dog out and let it learn from its mistakes. There is no better dog trainer than wild birds.
Post by: jetjockey on November 24, 2015, 01:44:14 PM
Post by: Bwana Bob on November 24, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Post by: NW-GSP on November 24, 2015, 02:39:29 PM
Post by: Bwana Bob on November 24, 2015, 03:44:23 PM
Post by: AspenBud on November 24, 2015, 04:12:51 PM
Post by: JayBird02 on November 24, 2015, 04:57:56 PM
Thanks for the tips guys. I won't give up on her so soon. Last Sunday gave me some encouragement I hope to hunt at least 10 more days before the season ends.I had the same issue with my Brittany when he was about 18 months old. I'm not a pro trainer at all but I started doing this. Started out tying him to a whoa post and slowly progressed to no half hitch and then no collar. But at the end of the day nothing is better than wild birds.
Post by: wildweeds on November 24, 2015, 07:40:09 PM
Post by: Forks on November 25, 2015, 06:07:42 AM
Post by: Bwana Bob on November 25, 2015, 09:42:56 AM
Aspen Bud. I have used the half hitch on her teaching Whoa. I'll look into your method
Forks. I will run her on her own from now on. Some of the hunts I go on take a long time to hunt properly. I hate to keep the old dog in the truck that long but Ill have to from now on.
Wildweeds. I'll be careful with my use of the e-collar. Never owned one until this dog. she's hard headed and an a aggressive hunter but I don't want to chance ruining her with the collar.
I hate to go to the East side this weekend but I have fri off and may hunt both Fri and sat and come home sat evening before the hordes come back to the west side.
Will try to get her into as many birds as I can between now and the last day.
You all Have a Great Thanksgiving
Bob
Post by: constructeur on November 25, 2015, 10:20:25 AM
Post season if you want to get together and train some, we can do that. Head North a bit and have some space and all to work things out.
In regards to stimulation, I say never use the collar when the bird is on the ground, It's still Shyla's at the point, once it's in the air it's yours and I'd use as much stimulation as the dog needs to make it stop chasing.
I think with your situation, and her prey drive that she needs and can also handle more electricity than you think.
For the rest of the season I'd go out and hunt her with my hand on the e collar control first with my gun at the ready, not the other way around. It makes for expensive 'training' but may end up with her putting it all together and being dialed in by the end of the season or ready for the next season at the very least.
Post by: scottr on November 26, 2015, 10:20:08 PM
Post by: joe_dumy on November 27, 2015, 05:53:22 AM
Post by: ribka on November 28, 2015, 06:44:34 PM
It is tough trying to train a dog on wild birds alone. Running a check cord, collar, correct timing and trying to get in the shot if the dogs does well
Helps to hunt with another person( shooter ) first year on wild birds so you can concentrate 100 per cent on dog and training. I think the desire, drive and prey drive is a large part of the equation for a good hunting dog and of course companion. Some dogs pick up quickly others, if patient and consistent, eventually get it . As is often said, It's the trainer not the dog.
Good luck
Post by: Bwana Bob on November 30, 2015, 04:51:45 PM
I got her out again Fri and Sat this past weekend. I did hunt her with my old dog again but it was a place that I could hunt all day and didn't want the old dog to sit in the truck that long. It was the best day I had with her all season. she pointed 4 or 5 birds and I killed a few over her. She even locked up on birds my old dog pointed and never took them out. she is backing but only if she is in the scent cone. Too bad the sage was too high for me to kill all the birds over her points. She chased down a cripple and brought it back but she want to play the possession game with them. She will eventually give them to me. She even wanted to pull the bird out of my other dogs mouth to retrieve it. She did bring the dead pigeons I shot over her to hand, not so the quail. I'm happy she's retrieving and not dropping them somewhere short of me.
She did a nice point on a covey of quail at the end the day. As I walked in she took them out before I could get close to her. Thank god for the collar.
The next day was an eye opener and I learned a little more about her. I hunted her with a friends dog, an English pointer. I was surprised as she paid little attention to him and hunted by me for the most part. She took out or bumped a covey of chukar which I never seen in this spot but stoped to the flush on her own. But the two of them bumped enough quail to get us both frustrated. We did not shoot any of the flushed quail.
She wants to creep in and without the collar on she will blow me off as far as coming and Whoaing if she on birds. I think a check cord will do wonders if I can find a friend that can shoot 70% or better. I've shot so few birds that not having a gun to carry won't bother me. With a check cord I could cure her of creeping and reinforce the whoa command. I plan to leave my old dog with a friend so I won't have an excuse to take her. But seeing a 13 yr old dog on solid points makes me happy for all the training I've done with her, which was very little for a smart dog. This one is a HH SOB but with a lot of drive and desire to hunt. Maybe all is not lost yet.
Post by: wildweeds on November 30, 2015, 09:12:01 PM
Post by: jjaba on December 01, 2015, 02:16:51 PM
Post by: scottr on December 02, 2015, 07:21:44 PM
Post by: scottr on December 02, 2015, 07:45:02 PM
Post by: Bwana Bob on December 17, 2015, 12:22:20 PM
I hunted her without my other dog and she listens better and covered the ground in front of me and not off to one side. She still wants to chase birds she flushes and birds I kick out over her points and not shoot or miss. In all fairness, my dog was not broke to wing and shot, so even though she she did not chase released pigeons she pointed, I really can't blame the dog for my shortcomings. She did stop to a flush on a covey of huns but that was a fluke, but chasing birds 100 plus yd is not acceptable and a waste of energy. The collar is good or that problem.
In some ways I'm setting her up to fail. Hunting running quail in head high sage is tough on any dog and a dog bulldozing through it will set some to flight. Hunting quail in cattle grazed thin cover takes an experience cautious dog and she doesn't have that experience yet. I should be happy she's bird crazed with a strong desire to hunt.
Thanks guys for all your advice and have a Merry Christmas and a great end to this bird season.
Bob
Post by: 10Key on December 17, 2015, 08:41:49 PM
I got my dogs out this past Sun - Tues. I had the best outing with my new dog so far. She pointed quite a few quail and I was able to shoot a few over her and she retrieved them all. She takes her time picking them up and coming to me but she will bring them to hand. I praise her and stroke her sides and she will drop them. She's a bit hard mouth but not bad. She's hell on running down cripples but I'm not sure she can track one down for a long distance > 50 yd. I know she will get that down with time.
I hunted her without my other dog and she listens better and covered the ground in front of me and not off to one side. She still wants to chase birds she flushes and birds I kick out over her points and not shoot or miss. In all fairness, my dog was not broke to wing and shot, so even though she she did not chase released pigeons she pointed, I really can't blame the dog for my shortcomings. She did stop to a flush on a covey of huns but that was a fluke, but chasing birds 100 plus yd is not acceptable and a waste of energy. The collar is good or that problem.
In some ways I'm setting her up to fail. Hunting running quail in head high sage is tough on any dog and a dog bulldozing through it will set some to flight. Hunting quail in cattle grazed thin cover takes an experience cautious dog and she doesn't have that experience yet. I should be happy she's bird crazed with a strong desire to hunt.
Thanks guys for all your advice and have a Merry Christmas and a great end to this bird season.
Bob
Good to hear you are making some strides, sometimes the birds can be fickle, tall sage and quail are a tough mix as are Huns in 8" cheat grass...flighty as heck. Just remember, the dogs that are steady to wing and or shot, have hours and hours and hours of training to get there...very hard for someone that is a self trainer to accomplish, especially on the wetside with limited training options. Keep having fun!
Post by: Bwana Bob on February 04, 2016, 01:49:46 PM
She has a better nose than I first thought. She stood sniffing the air on a week point in a field that was snow covered with little cover and no bird tracks . I released her and she went on point a good 300 yd away on a covey of 60 quail. They flew as soon as she pointed them. I definitely doubted that there were any birds in the area. I plan to get her out on chukars and quail in the next few weeks while I can still train on wild birds.
On a side note, chukar and Huns on crusty snow and scant cover are tuff to hunt. My young dog could see them on the snow and would flush them which I expected she do. So in the next spot I put my 12 yr dog on the ground. She pointed them some times 50 yd away but all the noise I made breaking through the crust set the birds to flight. Maybe if I had a 3 1/2 inch 12ga mag with 2 oz of #6 's and full chock I could have shot some, but my 2 3/4 in 20ga with 1oz of #6's was useless.
Now to find some snow less cover to train my dog and maybe hunt a coyote or bunny or two.
Post by: follow maggie on February 05, 2016, 11:00:38 AM
Post by: Bwana Bob on March 03, 2016, 08:54:57 AM
The next day we hunted a spot for quail. A coyote got between the dog and me and started the most dreadful howling. For a second i thought it was caught in a snare or attacking my dog. Just then a covey of about 60 fly over me with the dog in hot pursuit. I had to use the collar to stop her. The birds flew far in landing in sparse cover. Well it wasn't pretty and for the most past she just flushed them with only a few pointed for a brief time. There was enough good cover that I thought she should have been able to point more birds that she did. The birds seemed flighty, maybe because of the coyotes hunting them and now my dog busting them. She was like a dog on crack, head down running through the sage. >:( Now i had birds scattered in a 400 yd area. It took her awhile to find another bird which was good. She started to settle down and pointed birds that landed in the rocks at the base of a long cliff band.The cover there was very thick and she did well, pointing at least 1/2 doz birds. Compared to my old male that passed away, she did poorly. He would have pointed 90 % of the birds without busting them.
I know its hard to compare dogs but I give up bird hunting if I could hunt one more season with him.
My dog is broke to the gun so no need to kill birds and she retrieves well. Not to sure on her ability to find wounded birds but she tries hard. I'm thinking I need to get some homers and plant them and break her to wing. Her chasing birds has got to stop. She will shag a bird 200 yd if you let her. I think she will settle down a bit faster if she doesn't chase them.
I don't think releasing tethered bird she points will help. they will land too close to the point only increasing her drive to chase and catch them.
Any tips on how I should proceed with the training would be appreciated. will have to go over the PS/PF dvd's for some more training advice but some of it is hard to do by your self. I'd be happy to pay $5 a piece for homers I can borrow and plant at Cherry valley. I live in the bothell area.
Post by: wildweeds on March 03, 2016, 05:38:05 PM