Post by: Rufenit on November 24, 2015, 06:31:51 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on November 24, 2015, 06:43:42 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 24, 2015, 06:48:51 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on November 24, 2015, 07:10:26 PM
Post by: Rufenit on November 24, 2015, 07:21:31 PM
Thanks
Post by: Griiz on November 24, 2015, 07:31:35 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on November 24, 2015, 07:32:29 PM
Thanks for the advice. I will say I am guilty of not testing it out that far and I do intend on doing that. I do know that elevation can really affect the drop and I plan on ordering multiple turrets. That brings me to another question. If I plan on hunting mule deer at 9000 ft, I would assume that it needs to be sited in at the higher elevation or am I not understanding how they work. I'm assuming that if I site in a turret that Is zero at 200yrds at 2000 ft elevation I can't just slap on the 9000 ft elevation turret and assume it will work at the high elevation. Or can I?You have to re zero at every elevation.
Thanks
Post by: mountainman on November 24, 2015, 07:34:06 PM
Post by: 257wbymagkiller on November 24, 2015, 07:36:13 PM
Post by: Stein on November 24, 2015, 10:54:45 PM
If you have to ask whether 750 yards is reasonable, it isn't. Even if you don't, it isn't reasonable in my book. If you are 1 moa field, you are already off 8 inches if everything is perfect, and nothing ever is. For me, 0.5 moa bench is at least 1 moa field.
Look at a windage table, plug in the numbers and what it says to me is that it would be a Hail Mary. I don't shoot unless I am 90% it will be a one shot clean kill.
For 750 yards, I couldn't bet I would be better than 8 inches vertical and 12-15 or more horizontal before I even look at elevation or temp. Again, that is best case.
Post by: b23 on November 24, 2015, 11:20:28 PM
Post by: rudysts on November 25, 2015, 07:35:01 AM
1 Highly accurate rifle capable of sub half moa accuracy, imo only possible with hand loads and a custom barrel, a quality scope that you can dial up your elevation at any altitude and conditions
2 High quality range finder Leica 1600B or a G7 BR2
3 A good ballistic calculator ( the G7 BR2 has a really good one built in to it ) Strelok pro for your phone works really well it has trajectory validation option which is very important.
4 Kestrel weather meter so you can input wind, temp, altitude and pressure. (if not using a G7 BR2)
And lots of time at the range doing load development and practicing at different distances and shooting positions.
Post by: skeeter 20i on November 25, 2015, 07:55:21 AM
It's not voodoo witch doctor magic. It's all simple math, most make it sound more complicated than it is. A accurate load is easy to drive at distance.
:yeah: and practice, practice, practice
Post by: high country on November 25, 2015, 08:15:36 AM
Post by: Bill W on November 25, 2015, 08:28:55 AM
Post by: lucky7 on November 25, 2015, 08:51:13 AM
Post by: Bob33 on November 25, 2015, 09:12:34 AM
Whatever happened to the old days when the shooter had to accurately "eyeball" the distance and estimate the amount of hold over? I think we're getting too "techie".I suspect that the number of shooters who can consistently eyeball the difference between 725 and 750 yards under various field conditions is slim and none.
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2015, 09:21:29 AM
I think either one of those calibers would be fine if you knew what you were doing.
Post by: Bill W on November 25, 2015, 10:51:25 AM
Whatever happened to the old days when the shooter had to accurately "eyeball" the distance and estimate the amount of hold over? I think we're getting too "techie".I suspect that the number of shooters who can consistently eyeball the difference between 725 and 750 yards under various field conditions is slim and none.
Then we know the answer for whether that shot should be taken. I would suspect a bullet might drop 4-5 inches in that 25 yard increment.
Also a lot of trigger time should be considered even with the modern equipment. Shouldering the rifle, how the hand is positioned and trigger pulled needs to be very consistent. Then... there's the wind, sunshine/shade and heat that enters in.
I did a little benchrest shooting and it's amazing how the smallest details need to be analyzed. I used to use 7 windflags to shoot to 200 or 300 yards, depending on whether I was shooting cast bullet or jacketed rounds. Jacketed rounds were easy compared to sending cast bullet rounds downrange.
I've heard it said there are no perfect cast bullets as all have a casting void of some sort.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on November 25, 2015, 10:58:56 AM
here is the MINIMUM of what you need.
a good scope with good repeatable turrets.
Learn to use your reticle to establish ranges in the field.
Zero at 100 yards. There is no need to re-zero at any other conditions, nor is there a need to have a funky 200 or 300 yard zero as everything else is handled by your established dope.
Gather dope to the ranges and environmental conditions you feel are within your acceptable accuracy level. This will get you the neede trigger time to know your rifle and it's(your) capabilities.
Learn to read the wind.
Post by: birddogdad on November 25, 2015, 11:05:07 AM
Post by: Bob33 on November 25, 2015, 11:10:05 AM
Probably close to 8" to 10" with many calibers. My point was not that shots should not be taken because of distance estimation, only that it's humanly impossible to accurately estimate at those types of distances without some technology. Even with laser rangefinders it can be a challenge to range off the desired object to get a precise distance.Whatever happened to the old days when the shooter had to accurately "eyeball" the distance and estimate the amount of hold over? I think we're getting too "techie".I suspect that the number of shooters who can consistently eyeball the difference between 725 and 750 yards under various field conditions is slim and none.
Then we know the answer for whether that shot should be taken. I would suspect a bullet might drop 4-5 inches in that 25 yard increment.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on November 25, 2015, 11:28:04 AM
2000 feet in elevation @ 60F, 29.92 on the BARO.
Post by: Bill W on November 25, 2015, 11:43:55 AM
with my current load, it is exactly 10 inches of difference between 700 and 725 yards. and that is a Bullet with a 0.582 G1 BC and an initial MV of 2960.
2000 feet in elevation @ 60F, 29.92 on the BARO.
What is your zero range? I was basing my SWAG off of a 300 yard zero.
Post by: jackmaster on November 25, 2015, 11:55:29 AM
Post by: Yondering on November 25, 2015, 12:01:00 PM
if you aren't burning ammo at those ranges all year, frankly , you have no business with a "hail mary" during any hunting situation! use your gun to that range you are proficient and comfortable at (meaning you can hit target 10 for 10.. within.. and practice to reach further goals.. those distances are made to look ez on the tv but in reality its quite complex.
This. Along with that, if you fired a shot and missed the whole animal, not just the small vital zone you hoped to hit, you proved that you have no business shooting game at that range, until you practice a lot more. IMO that's true whether it was 750 yards or 75 yards.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on November 25, 2015, 12:01:23 PM
with my current load, it is exactly 10 inches of difference between 700 and 725 yards. and that is a Bullet with a 0.582 G1 BC and an initial MV of 2960.
2000 feet in elevation @ 60F, 29.92 on the BARO.
What is your zero range? I was basing my SWAG off of a 300 yard zero.
I am zero'd at 100 yards.
700 yards is 4.1 mils, 725 yards is 4.4 mils.
Interesting thing about 700 yards. After than I need to really know my environmentals. under 700 yards, I dont need to know much other than wind and range.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on November 25, 2015, 12:04:07 PM
I don't know Jack diddly about long distance shooting, but I DO know that if you cant breathe right and squeeze the trigger right, I done care what kind of equipment your shooting or how much your bullets cost, you *censored* gonna hit squat at a long distance or even be good and consistent at shorter distances, breathing and trigger squeeze is the absolute most important, and you don't hold your breath when your shooting either. You should also learn to shoot both eyes open.. :twocents:
yeah, pill the trigger on the exhaled pause.
it may suit you to shoot with both eyes open, but it is sometimes unrealistic especially when shooting with the sun in front of you.... :tup:
Post by: b23 on November 25, 2015, 12:29:16 PM
There are the "techie" long range shooters that make first round cold bore hits and there are the long range shooters that aren't as concerned with all the tech stuff and hope to get close, see their impacts, and try and walk their shots on target.
I've done it both ways and I'll take the "techie" approach every time. You just have to decide which one you want to be.
Post by: rbros on November 25, 2015, 05:45:04 PM
I think "long range shooting" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
There are the "techie" long range shooters that make first round cold bore hits and there are the long range shooters that aren't as concerned with all the tech stuff and hope to get close, see their impacts, and try and walk their shots on target.
I've done it both ways and I'll take the "techie" approach every time. You just have to decide which one you want to be.
Well said.
Post by: freezerfull on November 25, 2015, 05:49:34 PM
Post by: yorketransport on November 26, 2015, 08:12:12 AM
It's not voodoo witch doctor magic. It's all simple math, most make it sound more complicated than it is. A accurate load is easy to drive at distance.
But the guys on Long Range Hunting said that I need a $5K rifle built by a big name smith with the bare minimum of a NF ATACR scope, it has to be chambered in either 7 LRM or 338 Edge, I need a G7 range finder, the Applied Ballistics app, a Labradar to chronograph my loads, and only Berger bullets are capable of making it past 500 yards! :dunno:
I have guns that I've slapped together in my garage for less than $500 (including the scope) that are capable of hitting stuff at 1000 yards just as consistently as some of my insanely overpriced custom guns. If a gun can hold .75 MOA then the equipment is more than capable of making hits on game at 750 yards. The rest is up to the shooter.
The secret to shooting long range is simply good information and good practice. 750 yards is a long shot on a critter but it really isn't a long shot. In this case it doesn't sound like your equipment is what held you back. You just don't have the skills yet to make a shot like that. Just practice more and be better prepared next time.
Andrew
Post by: high country on November 26, 2015, 10:36:59 AM
Many of us can bust milk jugs at unbelievable ranges, but not EVERY DAY. Some days the conditions limit your shots. Light angle, wind, back drop, midrange interference from trees......and not personally being able to settle in.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on November 30, 2015, 08:54:52 AM
......and know when to say when.
Many of us can bust milk jugs at unbelievable ranges, but not EVERY DAY. Some days the conditions limit your shots. Light angle, wind, back drop, midrange interference from trees......and not personally being able to settle in.
INDEED!! Just yesterday I was shooting at targets. Range to the 12" square plate was 714 yards...20% hits. I sucked!!!
Tried a 66% ISPC at 943 yards...made 1 of 10...I really sucked.
The wind was back and forth right and left...5 to 10 MPH...very unpredictable.
Post by: Bill W on November 30, 2015, 09:15:05 AM