Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Loco Ken on December 01, 2015, 09:10:16 PM

Title: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Loco Ken on December 01, 2015, 09:10:16 PM: Looking to get my son (11y/o, going on 12) his first rifle next year and would like to get some outside opinions on what I should look for caliber-wise as well as some suggestions on manufacturer. I would like to stay away from the .243 simply because obviously it would be too small for elk, and my experience with it for deer is that the rounds travel too fast that in short distances don't have enough time for expansion. He might even shoot muzzleloader with me for elk so that might not need to be in the equation, but I would still like suggestions for elk as well. Is a .270 big enough, and does it have enough stopping power for elk? Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Bob33 on December 01, 2015, 09:16:31 PM: Quote from: Loco Ken on December 01, 2015, 09:10:16 PM
Looking to get my son (11y/o, going on 12) his first rifle next year and would like to get some outside opinions on what I should look for caliber-wise as well as some suggestions on manufacturer. I would like to stay away from the .243 simply because obviously it would be too small for elk, and my experience with it for deer is that the rounds travel too fast that in short distances don't have enough time for expansion. He might even shoot muzzleloader with me for elk so that might not need to be in the equation, but I would still like suggestions for elk as well. Is a .270 big enough, and does it have enough stopping power for elk? Thanks for your help!
A 243 with the right bullets is fine but a 7mm-08 is a better elk choice, and a great youth caliber.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: bobcat on December 01, 2015, 09:16:42 PM: 270 works great for deer and elk, and ammo is available everywhere. It's what I use and I highly recommend it! I would probably look at Savage for a reasonably priced rifle that will be accurate right out of the box.

I do have to say though, the 243 is a perfect deer cartridge. If the bullet is going fast that only means it will expand more, not less. But I agree, I'd go with something a little bigger for elk. Besides the 270, another good choice is the 308. The two are virtually the same.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: coachcw on December 01, 2015, 09:17:15 PM: Ruger American 7mm 08
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Loco Ken on December 01, 2015, 09:22:32 PM: Does the 7mm-08 kick less than the .270, and is ammo readily available for it?
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: HUNTaHOLIC5 on December 01, 2015, 09:23:40 PM: 270 is definitely big enough for elk. :tup: Besides that 7mm-08 or I liked my 30-30 as a beginner gun.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: WA hunter14 on December 01, 2015, 09:25:34 PM: yes 7mm08 is less reciol then 270 and yea ammo is readily available. 7mm08 was my first rifle, my dad bought it for me when i was 9 and i still use it. shot a escaped goat with it today
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Bob33 on December 01, 2015, 09:25:36 PM: Quote from: Loco Ken on December 01, 2015, 09:22:32 PM
Does the 7mm-08 kick less than the .270, and is ammo readily available for it?
Yes, and yes. The 270 is based on a necked down 30-06 case. The 7mm-08 is based on a necked down 308 case which holds less powder and thus generates less recoil. While the 270 is more popular, the 7mm-08 is popular enough to find ammo quite easily in most places.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 01, 2015, 09:35:35 PM: 7mm-08 :tup:
Title: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: bobcat on December 01, 2015, 09:36:05 PM: The 7/08 is a good cartridge, I just like the other more common cartridges such as the 270 Win. and the 308 Win. because the ammo is cheaper. (About half the price of what 7/08 is I believe)

If recoil is an issue there is low recoil ammo available for both the 270 and the 308.

Again, absolutely nothing wrong with the 7/08. It's just really a matter of personal preference.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Bob33 on December 01, 2015, 09:53:37 PM: I checked Midway Shooting. They list 117 different 30-06 rounds, 120 different 308 rounds, 53 270 rounds, 53 243 rounds, and 28 7mm-08 rounds. They can all be excellent cartridges for a youth with the right ammunition. I've shot all of them and like the 308 family calibers best for youth. I think a common mistake is picking too mild a caliber that the youth outgrows. You can tone down a 30-06 with milder ammo, but you can't turn a 243 into a 30-06. :twocents:
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: 724wd on December 02, 2015, 10:10:33 AM: .308 is my choice for kids. You can load down (or buy reduced recoil rounds) when they're young and run full house loads that are good for any animal walking in WA when they get older.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: WA hunter14 on December 02, 2015, 02:53:46 PM: i buy hornady superformance for 7-08 and its 31.99 a box, i used to buy the same thing for 30-06 and paid the exact same price
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2015, 03:03:04 PM: I buy Winchester Power Points in 270 and 30/06 for $19.99.

Can you get 7/08 for that price?
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: buglebrush on December 02, 2015, 03:06:31 PM: Took my first elk at 12 years old with a browning A-bolt .270. I have since killed numerous deer, elk, bear, and coyotes with it. Excellent choice IMO.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Bob33 on December 02, 2015, 03:23:55 PM: Quote from: bobcat on December 02, 2015, 03:03:04 PM
I buy Winchester Power Points in 270 and 30/06 for $19.99.

Can you get 7/08 for that price?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/773095/hornady-american-whitetail-ammunition-7mm-08-remington-139-grain-interlock-spire-point-box-of-20

Sale
$18.99
$0.95/Round

But I also consider ammunition cost as a non-factor in most instances. Many hunters will spend several hundred, if not thousands of dollars on a hunt and try to save $.50 a round. If you shoot a lot it may be a factor, but the casual shooter probably goes through a box of 20 in five years or more.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2015, 03:27:39 PM: I agree- ammo cost isn't a big factor. Availability is more of an issue, and that's why I like to stick with the most common cartridges- 243, 308, 270, and 30/06.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Bob33 on December 02, 2015, 03:33:33 PM: Quote from: bobcat on December 02, 2015, 03:27:39 PM
I agree- ammo cost isn't a big factor. Availability is more of an issue, and that's why I like to stick with the most common cartridges- 243, 308, 270, and 30/06.
There are some calibers that are very difficult to get, but for the most part 7mm-08 is available. If someone waits until the last minute to buy his ammunition on the way out of town on a hunt, it could be a problem.

The most popular caliber probably is 30-06 which can be found just about anywhere, if that's a factor.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2015, 03:42:55 PM: My brother has a 7/08 and one time about a year ago I was at Cabelas and he had asked me to pick up some ammo if they had any. It wasn't really what he wanted but all they had was three boxes of Hornady Superformance with 139 grain bullets at just under $40 a box. The shelves were just full of 270, 308, and 30/06 of many different varieties. So I guess that's what I base my opinion on. Maybe that was not the norm.

Oh and by the way, Superformance is not the ammo you want for a young person. My brother had a black and blue, bruised up shoulder after only shooting around half a box. And that's the 7/08's claim to fame- low recoil. :dunno:
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Bob33 on December 02, 2015, 03:51:58 PM: Quote from: bobcat on December 02, 2015, 03:42:55 PM
Oh and by the way, Superformance is not the ammo you want for a young person. My brother had a black and blue, bruised up shoulder after only shooting around half a box. And that's the 7/08's claim to fame- low recoil. :dunno:
If the shot distance is expected to be 200 yards or less, which it's likely to be for an inexperienced hunter, reduced/managed recoil ammunition is plenty good enough and makes recoil even milder. I lent my 7mm-08 to a first time youth hunter this year and he used a Hornady "custom lite" 120 grain load on a deer. Dropped in its tracks.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2015, 03:56:04 PM: Yep, that illustrates the fact that the ammo used is more important than which cartridge it happens to be. Low recoil loads can be purchased for the 270, 308, and 30/06 as well.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Bob33 on December 02, 2015, 03:58:33 PM: Quote from: bobcat on December 02, 2015, 03:56:04 PM
Yep, that illustrates the fact that the ammo used is more important than which cartridge it happens to be. Low recoil loads can be purchased for the 270, 308, and 30/06 as well.

;)

Quote from: Bob33 on December 01, 2015, 09:53:37 PM
I think a common mistake is picking too mild a caliber that the youth outgrows. You can tone down a 30-06 with milder ammo, but you can't turn a 243 into a 30-06. :twocents:
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Loco Ken on December 02, 2015, 05:13:02 PM: A big thank you to everyone for lending your personal experience and knowledge. It looks like we will be looking for either the .270 or the 7mm-08 then. I might take a look at the .30-06 and the cartridges to see what they come in in the lowest loads. Does anyone know what the lowest loads are for the .30-06? Regardless, I will more than likely stick with one of the first two and get him the .30-06 when he gets older and more experience under his belt. I love my Model 700, but it has a nice kick that would keep him from going out with me for sure.
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Bob33 on December 02, 2015, 05:22:31 PM: 125 grains at 2660 for Remington 3006 managed recoil. Very pleasant.
www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx)
Title: Re: Youth 1st Deer/Elk rifle
Post by: Wingin it on December 02, 2015, 09:37:11 PM: The 125 gr reduced recoil rounds available from hornady are very mild in my 30.06. Another nod for the 7mm-08 too.