Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 02:15:01 PM
Any 1 of the Western States
Branch Antler Bull
5 guys
OTC tag
Any weapon based on OTC and unit access
Possibly fully guided (not required)
Best success possibility
$ relative to success
What would HuntWa do?
Post by: grundy53 on December 07, 2015, 02:22:46 PM
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Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 07, 2015, 02:47:29 PM
"$ relative to success"
What is "success"?
Number of bulls killed?
or
Size o bulls killed?
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 02:50:27 PM
"Best success possibility"
"$ relative to success"
What is "success"?
Number of bulls killed?
or
Size o bulls killed?
Number of tags notched.
Post by: ipkus on December 07, 2015, 02:55:07 PM
You are going to be hard pressed to go into any area that is new to your group, unguided, and shoot several bulls the first year without 1.) a ton of research and legwork (much more than asking for advice on a bb), and 2.) having a group of guys that are hard chargers that know how to kill elk. Heck, it'll be challenging to do it in an OTC area with an outfitter without it being really expensive.
What is the 'perfect' way you'd like your hunt to go down, and maybe we can help work back from there?
Post by: Bean Counter on December 07, 2015, 03:00:29 PM
Otherwise there's Colorado. Not known for big bulls but a big herd population.
I don't know much about Idaho or Montana but my impression is that a lot of you Washingtonians head that way.
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 03:13:42 PM
Yep, need more info.
You are going to be hard pressed to go into any area that is new to your group, unguided, and shoot several bulls the first year without 1.) a ton of research and legwork (much more than asking for advice on a bb), and 2.) having a group of guys that are hard chargers that know how to kill elk. Heck, it'll be challenging to do it in an OTC area with an outfitter without it being really expensive.
What is the 'perfect' way you'd like your hunt to go down, and maybe we can help work back from there?
Ok, lets work it this way. 1 guy wants to choose a state with an OTC bull elk tag, choose a weapon based on the OTC tag availability and unit access and hunt an area with the highest probability of opportunity. Does not have to be guided but is a possibility strictly a cause of inability to scout efficiently. You are a hard charging Elk getting SOB.
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 03:17:02 PM
You can get a general tag in Wyoming for the expensive Special Tag price. At least you could a few years ago. Check the 2015 draw odds/success on their database and let us know.
Otherwise there's Colorado. Not known for big bulls but a big herd population.
I don't know much about Idaho or Montana but my impression is that a lot of you Washingtonians head that way.
But you have to have a guide as a NR correct?
Post by: Bean Counter on December 07, 2015, 03:20:10 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 07, 2015, 03:31:27 PM
Or resident companion, in wilderness areas only, for big game only.You can get a general tag in Wyoming for the expensive Special Tag price. At least you could a few years ago. Check the 2015 draw odds/success on their database and let us know.But you have to have a guide as a NR correct?
Otherwise there's Colorado. Not known for big bulls but a big herd population.
I don't know much about Idaho or Montana but my impression is that a lot of you Washingtonians head that way.
Post by: nwwanderer on December 07, 2015, 03:44:42 PM
Post by: hunterofelk on December 07, 2015, 03:59:47 PM
Post by: ipkus on December 07, 2015, 04:02:53 PM
Idaho
Oregon
Other states that are not technically OTC, but have hunts you basically can draw/buy every year;
Montana
Colorado
Wyoming (general elk tag is 40% odds with 1 pref. point, special ($$) is 45% odds with 0 pref. points)
Your options as a NR will typically be best using archery equipment, but every state listed above has at least some good general rifle hunts.
Some of the things that really matter to people that you need to decide to help narrow it down;
Distance - Hours in the truck will wear on you, adds to the expense, and makes it harder to scout any other time of year.
Time of year - Archery in September vs. late November rifle hunts are usually the same difference as Africa and the North Pole.
Quality - it varies, even within each state. If your main goal is to simply be in good elk numbers so you have a realistic chance to kill at least a raghorn every year, my list probably looks like this; 1.) Colorado 2.) Wyoming 3.) Montana 4.) Idaho 5.) Oregon
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 04:09:23 PM
Ok, so...decent non-resident OTC bull tag states;
Idaho
Oregon
Other states that are not technically OTC, but have hunts you basically can draw/buy every year;
Montana
Colorado
Wyoming (general elk tag is 40% odds with 1 pref. point, special ($$) is 45% odds with 0 pref. points)
Your options as a NR will typically be best using archery equipment, but every state listed above has at least some good general rifle hunts.
Some of the things that really matter to people that you need to decide to help narrow it down;
Distance - Hours in the truck will wear on you, adds to the expense, and makes it harder to scout any other time of year.
Time of year - Archery in September vs. late November rifle hunts are usually the same difference as Africa and the North Pole.
Quality - it varies, even within each state. If your main goal is to simply be in good elk numbers so you have a realistic chance to kill at least a raghorn every year, my list probably looks like this; 1.) Colorado 2.) Wyoming 3.) Montana 4.) Idaho 5.) Oregon
Awesome input, thank you! At this point quantity is more important than quality. One of our group has limited hunting years left so I am looking at this as a 1 time hunt for the group with an expectation for future hunts to grow off of this one. My first thoughts we're Idaho and Wyoming but also want to take in account the other aspects of the hunt like coolness of location! While harvesting will be the primary focus the outlying aspects of the trip will be important as well.
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 04:15:38 PM
South Western Montana is good. If you don't mind spending the NR fees, should get the tags required. Any of your group Montana born with relatives still in state? Montana has a come home to hunt program. The fees in this program are very reasonable. I know there was one outfit, should be many more, would do drop camps. Broken Arrow from the Ennis area? If you want to drive ATV's around, a lot of the so-called roads are really ATV trails. This year was pretty good with the cold and snow. Several districts are open to antler-less. In the little towns there are motels with the sportsman in mind if you don't want to camp. Hunting areas are within driving distance of course.
Thank you! No one born in Montana so NR fees are expected. The use of ATV's would fit one of the group, are there areas within this that can accommodate a roadless , pack in pack out style hunt?
Post by: Timberstalker on December 07, 2015, 04:22:25 PM
Post by: deerslyr on December 07, 2015, 04:23:02 PM
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 04:36:44 PM
If looking for quanity for 5. Hands down colorado!
Would you use a guide? Taking in account that is on the farther reaches of travel time.
Post by: deerslyr on December 07, 2015, 04:40:18 PM
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 04:53:49 PM
If you use a guide your probability of success goes up greatly. If you have the money go with a guide. Also if your going guided I'd go to Montana with an outfitter that operates on private land. I can recommend a few if u decide to go that route
I would love to hear guide options. Right now budget is based on guided.
Post by: deerslyr on December 07, 2015, 04:55:49 PM
Post by: deerslyr on December 07, 2015, 04:57:54 PM
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 08:58:25 PM
Whats your budget?
Don't necessarily have a budgeted amount but an option to find the best hunts guided or not.
Post by: cbond3318 on December 07, 2015, 08:59:15 PM
My first suggestion would be Montana Hunt and Fish. I used to guide for them and they have awesome leases. Although quite pricey.
I will check them out and get back with you. Thanks!
Post by: zike on December 07, 2015, 10:51:11 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on December 07, 2015, 11:21:08 PM
Just a thought, the Canadian dollar is worth $.75 on a US dollar. I wonder if it would be worth it to hunt Canada? I may have to look into a buck buck hunt in Canada.
The U.S. Dollar is strong against most EVERY currency in the world right now. This is why gas is cheap right now and it made sense to buy my most recent camera from a Japanese importer. Why stop at Canada? Go to Canada, New Zealand, AND Africa! :mgun2:
Post by: cbond3318 on December 08, 2015, 01:38:40 PM
My first suggestion would be Montana Hunt and Fish. I used to guide for them and they have awesome leases. Although quite pricey.
Boy you aren't kidding there! looks like a great outfitter but holy smokes!
Post by: cbond3318 on December 08, 2015, 01:43:50 PM
Post by: Stalker on December 08, 2015, 02:21:06 PM
Post by: cbond3318 on December 08, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
I would look to CO based on what you have listed so far since tags are relatively easy to get. Take a look at the success rates for various GMUs. CO has leftover tags that go on sale in early Aug that are 1st come 1st serve and they have good OTC access. CO has the largest elk heard in the country and does produce some quality bulls. One thing you may consider since you state that you are probably looking to make this an annual trip is to not get hung up on bulls for the entire group. You can purchase cow tags for about 1/2 the cost of a bull. So if 2 guys in the group get bull tags and the rest go for cows you are probably bringing home meat. I have hunted GMUs 421, 22, 511, 82, 86 and 12. Never had a problem finding animals if you are willing to hunt. Guide may be a good way to go for a season or two until you get to know an area. ATVs can be used in most areas just cannot use them off trails and other areas like wilderness. Hope this helps some.
Great info ! Thanks. I like the idea of getting a couple cow tags mixed in with the group. hadn't thought of that outlook before! I think I am leaning towards unguided but maybe a drop style hunt or even purchase of Guide maps if that's an option. I feel like with some intel , we shouldn't have an issue finding animals within a given area....
Post by: luvtohnt on December 08, 2015, 02:36:55 PM
2014 Draw odds for general tag in Wyoming (sorry if it is messy I copied and pasted)
Issued Points Applicants success
2 7 2 100.00%
0 < 7 0 100.00%
9 6 9 100.00%
0 <6 0 100.00%
9 5 9 100.00%
7 <5 7 100.00%
37 4 37 100.00%
28 <4 28 100.00%
83 3 83 100.00%
114 <3 114 100.00%
337 2 337 100.00%
311 < 2 311 100.00%
800 1 1200 66.67%
0 < 1 2550 0.00%
We hunt in western Wyoming, and in 2011 (group success was 50%) I took a 300" bull and my buddy took a 310' bull, and in 2014 (group success was 22%) I took a cow. 2014 was rough 1 guy went down on day 2 with back problems, and one guy suffered from altitude sickness the entire time and his son really did not want to go with anyone else. The neighboring camp shot a 350" bull right behind camp in 2014, so there is potential for the occasional trophy. We also had an elderly gentleman that would hike maybe a mile and sit all day. So in reality we were closer to 40% success in 2014. We saw grizzly tracks, and a couple camps actually saw the bear. It was cold and snowy which made the hunting fun.
Lots of public land in Wyoming, and there are some great places to hunt that don't require a guide. As far as cost I spend roughly $2500 for everything each time I go. This includes processing which is necessary as anything from Wyoming has to be boneless to come into WA. Fuel cost for both directions, hotels during travel, food, camp gas, ect..
All 2014 Non-resident stats
Firearm harvest was 87.9%
Unit I harvested in was 51%
Neighboring unit was 37% (we hunt this unit as well.
Hope this helps
Bonus is Wyoming usually has leftover tags, which allows you to harvest 2 animals or purchase a leftover to guarantee you go every year.
Brandon
Post by: cbond3318 on December 08, 2015, 02:42:23 PM
Post by: luvtohnt on December 08, 2015, 03:01:09 PM
Brandon
Post by: cbond3318 on December 08, 2015, 03:03:40 PM
First time applicant I believe you would have 0 points, but you can buy points in Wyoming. Your best bet for 2016 would be apply (most likely not get drawn) then buy leftover tags, and get to know the area you want to hunt (leftover tags are cheaper if I remember correctly), buy a point in summer of 2016 and go into the 2017 drawing with 2 points which should be 100% success rate on drawing. If done this way you will know the area well by the time you are ready to try for a bull. Plus who wouldn't want to hunt 2 years in a row in Wyoming!!!
Brandon
Good point. :tup: I assume leftover tags are antlerless?
Post by: ipkus on December 08, 2015, 03:17:25 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 08, 2015, 03:18:26 PM
How do you get from 0 to 2 points in one year??
You can't.
Post by: luvtohnt on December 08, 2015, 03:23:16 PM
How do you get from 0 to 2 points in one year??
You can't.
I thought each unsuccessful application was a point earned, and you can purchase points during the summer?
Brandon
Post by: luvtohnt on December 08, 2015, 03:28:24 PM
My bad, I was mis-led by my friend in Wyoming. I usually just buy my points in July and apply every other year.
Sorry for the confusion.
Brandon
Post by: Bob33 on December 08, 2015, 03:40:04 PM
There are some of each, but many more antlerless.First time applicant I believe you would have 0 points, but you can buy points in Wyoming. Your best bet for 2016 would be apply (most likely not get drawn) then buy leftover tags, and get to know the area you want to hunt (leftover tags are cheaper if I remember correctly), buy a point in summer of 2016 and go into the 2017 drawing with 2 points which should be 100% success rate on drawing. If done this way you will know the area well by the time you are ready to try for a bull. Plus who wouldn't want to hunt 2 years in a row in Wyoming!!!
Brandon
Good point. :tup: I assume leftover tags are antlerless?
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/QuotaAvailability/SelectionCriteria.aspx
Post by: theleo on December 08, 2015, 03:43:11 PM
Post by: cbond3318 on December 08, 2015, 03:43:22 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 08, 2015, 03:45:51 PM
Post by: cbond3318 on December 08, 2015, 03:46:35 PM
You might wish to buy a year's subscription to Huntin' Fool. They carry pretty extensive information on all the western states.
Thanks Bob, I will look into it!
Post by: Branden on December 08, 2015, 04:21:24 PM
Whoever said Colorado isn't otc for elk is wrong. Most of the units are otc for archery, second, and third season. Muzzy is draw along with first and fourth season.
I'm a fan of Colorado because you can buy your tag the day before the season starts. largest elk heard of any state. Lots of different type of terrain. Lots of different seasons. And the best state to hunt deer in. Find a decent elk unit and get a deer tag there occasionally. Or 3 guys get elk tags 2 deer tags etc. it's hard for every hunter to tag out. We have went 4 for 4 on bulls in Colorado, but last time I went we were only 1 for 2. (My dad has bad knees and couldn't get around very well). We saw 13 legal bulls though with the best being 330ish.
Post by: grundy53 on December 10, 2015, 08:02:12 AM
You might wish to buy a year's subscription to Huntin' Fool. They carry pretty extensive information on all the western states.
Or Gohunt.com. They are pretty good too.
http://www.gohunt.com/