Post by: cbzdel on December 09, 2015, 09:19:17 AM
That being said, I am looking for a simple fool proof setup, being new to Muzzel loaders, and by new I mean I never even handled one until my Optima came in the mail.
I was thinking about using pellets and power belt bullets with RWS musket caps. The musket caps are easy enough and legal, but I am finding mixed results when searching pellets and power belt bullets. Half the posts are saying they are both illegal in WA and the other half say they are both totally legal. I read though the hunting manual and I cant see anything that would state them being illegal myself.
Can anyone recommend me a decent bullet and powder/pellet that are Washington legal and would work well for target practice and deer season?
Post by: bobcat on December 09, 2015, 09:27:12 AM
That law was changed and now there aren't any restrictions. No restrictions on powder either, as long as it's black powder or a black powder substitute.
The only thing you can't legally use for hunting during muzzleloader season is the 209 shotgun shell primers.
For just target shooting and deer, I'd recommend Hornady XTP bullets. You can use 44 or 45 caliber with the appropriate sabot, which you buy separately. They are actually meant for handgun cartridges but work great for muzzleloaders and are economical to shoot.
Post by: lokidog on December 09, 2015, 09:33:17 AM
As Bobcat said, pretty much everything besides 209s is legal, even they are during modern rifle season. With the price of alternative bullets these days, and powder, I would seriously look at target shooting, and even deer hunting (at least on the wet side) with roundballs. They are cheaper than sabot style bullets and take less powder per shot. Once you are comfortable shooting the roundballs, maybe find a heavier bullet that you want to use for hunting in the future.
Post by: Sabotloader on December 09, 2015, 09:38:25 AM
You will not be able to use one BP sub - Blackhorn 209 unless you duplex the load. Washington and the 3 PacNorWest States require cap ignition. Caps will not produce enough heat to ignite BH by itself.
Post by: Chukarhead on December 10, 2015, 12:10:52 PM
NW or western legal isn't a uniform thing-- different states have different requirements with regard to bullets, powder, and sights. In Washington, fiber optic sights are OK, and you can use whatever bullet and BP substitute you please, but have to use caps (as you've surmised). I only mention it because you used both terms, and it would be unfortunate to work up a load and then find out you couldn't use it where you were going to hunt (like Oregon).
If you're just plinking, round ball and light loads of loose powder are the cheapest, most fun to shoot. If accuracy is really important to you, or you want to shoot out past 75 yards or so, plain lead powerbelts are great for punching paper in most guns. Easy to load, not too spendy. If convenience is more important than cost, pellets are great at the range. A single 50gr pellet under a round ball or light (248 gr) powerbelt is a lot of fun, nearly recoil-free, and you don't have to measure anything between shots.
If you don't mind paying $$$ for target shooting, and you're not recoil averse, then use a serious hunting load for target practice. Loose Triple 7 powder in FF or FFF (somewhere between 80 and 130 grains) and high quality sabot bullets (Hornady, Barnes, Lehigh, etc. marketed under various names). That way, when you make a spur-of-the-moment decision to shoot at a deer, you're already dialed in with your hunting load. Powerbelts are proven killers, but most informed muzzleloader hunters will admit that there are much more reliable, deadly bullets on the market.
I tend to keep everything dialed for hunting, and then plink with cheap saboted pistol bullets and single pellets, and just adjust my aim for drop (which is substantial at longer ranges).
Post by: Rem14 on December 10, 2015, 06:55:12 PM
Post by: cbzdel on December 11, 2015, 08:18:22 AM
And with a lead ball I need a patch, correct? So are all patches created equal? I see there is dry and lubricated, would I want one over the other?
I am looking at shooting less than 100 yards.
Post by: MagKarl on December 11, 2015, 09:12:33 AM
Powder, patch, ball, cap.
Post by: floatinghat on December 11, 2015, 12:28:23 PM
Thinking that you might have an over spun ball, if you Optima has a 1-28 twist. To help you might want to back the charge way down.
I would look at some cheap conicals or Sabot and bullets.
Post by: cumminsbassguy on December 11, 2015, 09:12:40 PM
Post by: Soady on December 12, 2015, 06:03:02 AM
Round ball and patch loads are not recommended for CVA Break-Ac- tion In-Line rifles. The fast rate of rifling twist (1:28) associated with CVA Break-Action In-Lines may not provide optimum accuracy when using patched round ball loads.
But hey your mileage may vary if all you want to do is shoot the rifle and hear it go bang. Reducing the powder load has nothing to do with spin rate the ball is still in a 1/28 barrel and the ball is going to over spin and be inaccurate.
Post by: lokidog on December 12, 2015, 09:56:37 AM
Straight from the CVA Instruction Manual:
Round ball and patch loads are not recommended for CVA Break-Ac- tion In-Line rifles. The fast rate of rifling twist (1:28) associated with CVA Break-Action In-Lines may not provide optimum accuracy when using patched round ball loads.
But hey your mileage may vary if all you want to do is shoot the rifle and hear it go bang. Reducing the powder load has nothing to do with spin rate the ball is still in a 1/28 barrel and the ball is going to over spin and be inaccurate.
That's a bummer.
Post by: Soady on December 12, 2015, 11:13:54 PM
Midwayusa has them listed at $15.99 in 300 grn and Harvest crush rib at $8.99 per 100 couple that with 777 ffg or fffg you should be on track in no time. Start powder at 80 and work from there range at 50 yards and out until you find what works. Caps will be your choice. Hornady XTP 250 grn will run you more $$ :dunno: why but still a possibility.
Post by: lamrith on December 13, 2015, 01:43:55 PM
For just target shooting and deer, I'd recommend Hornady XTP bullets. You can use 44 or 45 caliber with the appropriate sabot, which you buy separately. They are actually meant for handgun cartridges but work great for muzzleloaders and are economical to shoot.Given that, to bring the cheap factor even higher would other .45 230Grn pistol bullets work for target shooting when used with the sabot? Thinking say of the readily available 230grn plated round nose bullets for 45acp.. Berry's, Rainier, Xtreme..