Post by: splitshot on December 17, 2015, 10:12:45 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on December 17, 2015, 10:15:56 AM
Post by: splitshot on December 17, 2015, 10:19:37 AM
Post by: KevinClimbs on December 17, 2015, 10:21:21 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on December 17, 2015, 10:22:40 AM
please explain instock reduction device. never heard of it. is it costly? mike w
Here is a link to an example:
http://www.edwardsrecoilreducer.com/#!product/c1jxp
Post by: Reidus on December 17, 2015, 10:24:57 AM
please explain instock reduction device. never heard of it. is it costly? mike w
Usually a mercury filled something that goes in the butt of the stock. I know benelli makes a recoil reducer that fits in the stocks of their Nova Shotguns. Looks to me like it mostly adds mass, which reduces recoil. I'm not to sure but I'm guessing the mercury is a fluid in there which may delay the recoil over more time, if that makes sense. Kind of like putting a half full water bottle in your stock. :twocents:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 17, 2015, 10:25:33 AM
please explain instock reduction device. never heard of it. is it costly? mike wThey use a weight/springs/mercury to use the inertia of the weight to slow the recoil. It adds a little weight to the gun and requires installation (possible drilling/inletting). Not going to change a lot if fired on a bench or vise, but can really slow down the recoil in a few positions.
Post by: JDHasty on December 17, 2015, 12:46:17 PM
I have an original Winlite in 300 Wby. The 300 Wby is a cartridge with a nasty reputation for recoil. The rifle came from New Haven in a McMillan stock and the recoil is very much mitigated over the same rifle in a wood stock. But my buddy has the exact same rifle and had to have a muzzle brake installed on his.
I would definitely not rely on my advice alone.
I hate recoil, but I shoot 7 lb Ithaca Deerslayers off the bench with 3" slugs, that and shooting max loads out of my 6 lb Marlin 1895 45/70 is about as vicious as it gets. Both make an eleven and a half pound 460 Weatherby seem tame in comparison. What I am saying is: I don't like it, but I can handle it.
If you have not yet purchased a firearm - this is a good place to start comparing your options. You will have to go to Hodgdon to get a likely powder weight though. Factory ammo they don't list powder weight.
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/recoil.htm
I said "fiberglass stock." IMHO a real, honest to God, fiberglass stock absorbs and/or dissipates a LOT of the recoil before it gets to your shoulder. I Have a few other rifles with McMillans and MPIs on them and all seem pretty much to have the bite taken out of them. The "glass filled" plastic or whatever stocks I have shot don't seem to give much, if any, relief from recoil though.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2015, 12:47:54 PM
Post by: b23 on December 17, 2015, 01:00:24 PM
Suppressors work nearly as well and usually are hearing safe with no ear protection but they are considerably more expensive and will take the better part of six months before you can actually use it.
Reduced loads, both, lighter bullets and slower velocity will be the least expensive but will, in all honesty, pretty much be the least noticeable too.
A good quality pad helps a little but don't expect to see a significant difference.
For the most part, about the only way to reduce recoil effectly is you have to eliminate what causes it or in the case of a muzzle brake or suppressor, manipulate it so it diverts that energy somewhere else.
Post by: The scout on December 17, 2015, 01:06:14 PM
Post by: splitshot on December 17, 2015, 02:36:46 PM
Post by: Reidus on December 17, 2015, 02:47:13 PM
Limbsaver recoil pad will help
Adding weight will help
Less powder, less bullet weight, less velocity will all reduce recoil
I had a 300 ultra mag. It was brutal to shoot and I did not like shooting it. I'm not a proponent of hunting with guns you aren't comfortable with. I didn't want to go the muzzle break route, so I sold it.
Post by: bobcat on December 17, 2015, 02:47:39 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/415393/doubletap-ammunition-270-winchester-short-magnum-wsm-110-grain-barnes-triple-shock-x-bullet-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2015, 02:49:11 PM
Post by: zike on December 17, 2015, 02:55:11 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 17, 2015, 03:07:26 PM
Muzzle break will reduce recoil the most but with the downside of being super loud."Super loud" = almost certain permanent hearing loss without the use of hearing protection. One shot is all it takes. If you're willing to ALWAYS use hearing protection, or deal with the probability of hearing loss then brakes do a marvelous job of reducing recoil.
Personally, I've lost enough hearing that I can't afford to lose any more and thus I will never use a hunting gun with a brake. I'll sacrifice energy/ballistics first.
I'd look at using reduced energy ammunition as my first option. Unless you're shooting at distances in excess of 200 yards, they're effective enough to use with confidence in most circumstances.
Post by: dc on December 17, 2015, 03:19:38 PM
Post by: thinkingman on December 17, 2015, 03:38:13 PM
Added the Limbsaver recoil pad and it's at least less punishing.
I may add some lead shot to the stock voids, but really it's rifle meant to be carried a lot, shot little.
Never ever get a muzzle brake....Unless you're already deaf, in which case, consider the people you're hunting with.
Post by: JDHasty on December 17, 2015, 03:50:43 PM
I have a Tikka 300WSM and when I shot it with the stock recoil pad, it left bruises.
Added the Limbsaver recoil pad and it's at least less punishing.
I may add some lead shot to the stock voids, but really it's rifle meant to be carried a lot, shot little.
Never ever get a muzzle brake....Unless you're already deaf, in which case, consider the people you're hunting with.
:yeah:
Post by: JDHasty on December 17, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
:yeah:Muzzle break will reduce recoil the most but with the downside of being super loud."Super loud" = almost certain permanent hearing loss without the use of hearing protection. One shot is all it takes. If you're willing to ALWAYS use hearing protection, or deal with the probability of hearing loss then brakes do a marvelous job of reducing recoil.
Personally, I've lost enough hearing that I can't afford to lose any more and thus I will never use a hunting gun with a brake. I'll sacrifice energy/ballistics first.
I'd look at using reduced energy ammunition as my first option. Unless you're shooting at distances in excess of 200 yards, they're effective enough to use with confidence in most circumstances.
Post by: bobcat on December 17, 2015, 03:59:34 PM
Even better would be to reload the 110 grain bullet at a reduced velocity. So instead of 3500 fps, maybe 3200. That's still plenty fast and recoil would be reduced to probably pretty similar to a 25/06.
That along with either a Limbsaver or Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad and recoil should be fairly mild.
Post by: JBar on December 17, 2015, 04:07:09 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 17, 2015, 04:18:25 PM
Sell the rifle and get a different one. :dunno: If you've already developed a flinch from the recoil then you may just consider selling it. And no i'm not looking for a 270wsm :chuckle:
:yeah:
That's what I would do. Unless you're a reloader, I think that's your best option. Get a 243 or a 25/06.
Post by: RB on December 17, 2015, 04:21:58 PM
I have had a few times since the brake was installed that I have shot without hearing protection in the field. I am now working on going back to shooting 30-06 without a brake. I shot my 300 twice this year within a few seconds of each shot and it did my ears no favors in fact it was the first time in all the years I have hunted my ears rang for the rest of the day and into the next. :twocents:
Post by: RadSav on December 17, 2015, 04:30:28 PM
am shooting a fairly light 270 wsm. am not a big guy aND AM OLD AND A CHICKEN. WANT TO REDUCE RECOIL. have a synthetic stock.
I have a Sako A7 in 270WSM that kicked like a race horse. Was crazy sharp and uncomfortable. I was about to trade it in on a Winchester. But before I did I had Sims send me one of their Tikka fitted pads for it. That's all it took! Now even the wife enjoys shooting it :tup:
I consider muzzle breaks on hunting rifles as a last resort. Fine, or even preferred, on the range or if you are always in open country. But they are darn hard on the ears for both the shooter and the spotter when used in actual hunting conditions. I have 50% hearing loss in my left ear. Makes figuring out where that elk is bugling from or where that turkey is roosting dang difficult. Even worse is the hell I receive for not listening to the wife! :o That hearing loss if all from field shooting, both as the shooter and as the guide.
Post by: Bob33 on December 17, 2015, 04:37:43 PM
But they are darn hard on the ears for both the shooter and the spotter when used in actual hunting conditions. I have 50% hearing loss in my left ear. Makes figuring out where that elk is bugling from or where that turkey is roosting dang difficult.I hear you. Well, actually I don't. ;)
Post by: The scout on December 17, 2015, 04:38:56 PM
Post by: yorketransport on December 17, 2015, 05:57:35 PM
Recoil velocity is what gets me. I don't mind a heavy, rolling recoil like the bigger 375, 416 and 458s have. The high velocity caliber a like the 270 mag's have a very sharp recoil than can be tamed with a good recoil pad. A good pad doesn't t necessarily reduce the actual recoil but it will spread it out over a slightly longer period of time which helps take the sting out of it.
Andrew
Post by: splitshot on December 17, 2015, 07:07:45 PM
Post by: Curly on December 17, 2015, 07:09:50 PM
Post by: mazama on December 17, 2015, 08:09:49 PM
Post by: RadSav on December 17, 2015, 09:01:41 PM
I DONT HAVE BIG SHOULDERS TO SPREAD RECOIL OUT ON. WILL LOOK INTO A PAD. ANY SUGGESTIONS?
Sims is far and away my pad of choice. I do have a few magnums with the 1-inch Pachmayr Decelerator. It's pretty good too.
Post by: M_ray on December 17, 2015, 09:11:31 PM
Post by: M_ray on December 17, 2015, 09:14:45 PM
Post by: elkaholic123 on December 17, 2015, 09:26:16 PM
Post by: Skillet on December 17, 2015, 09:30:52 PM
Get a good pad. :twocents:
Post by: splitshot on December 17, 2015, 09:36:50 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 17, 2015, 09:44:07 PM
Post by: M_ray on December 17, 2015, 09:57:02 PM
please explain decelerater. does it only come as pachmyer? mike w
It's just what they call their recoil pads
http://www.pachmayr.com/home/prefit-pads.php
Post by: M_ray on December 17, 2015, 10:01:44 PM
I shoot 2 different rifles with brakes and always wear ear protection at the range but not when hunting, I do not even notice the sound out in the field, no ear ringing or loss of hearing so far. If your gun kicks and your working up a load, the brake is the only way to go to tame recoil in my opinion.
There are many examples of other ways to "tame" recoil on here so I don't agree that it is the only way ... And also hearing loss doesn't start when you first start noticing it ... most likely if you are shooting with a break you have already done irreversible damage you just don't realize it yet! :twocents:
Post by: JDHasty on December 17, 2015, 10:22:07 PM
please explain decelerater. does it only come as pachmyer? mike w
Limb saver and Decelerator are both similar pads. I think both are made of Sorbothane a proprietary elastomer and they are both very good. I use them.
IMHO the Decelerator looks a bit better usually.
I commented above and have been kinda sitting back to see what others have to say and I agree with a lot of people that a muzzle brake is not something I will ever tolerate. The person who states no damage to their hearing is simply fooling themselves. Beside the fact that I will leave the range if someone shows up with a high intensity rifle fitted with one of the things and I cannot get away from them by at least four benches. It is not only the noise, it is also the blowing of stuff off of my bench and in some cases it was dirt from a guy shooting prone.
That being said:
My cousin's husband manufactures rifles, his name is Kirby Allen. He is in Ft Shaw Mt, try emailing Kirby and see what he would reccomend. I do know that Kirby puts brakes on all of his rifles and practically all of his customers' rifles. It's easy to find him by doing an Internet search. I am on one side of the muzzle brake issue, but what is best for me may not be best for you and I can't think of anyone who has more experience with muzzle brakes than Kirby. I think Kirby may hunt with hearing protection in, his rifles are chambered for extremely high performance oriented cartridges.
Don't worry about Kirby trying to sell you anything. He is like three years back logged on custom rifles and he doesn't even do anything except complete rifles any more.
Post by: Bob33 on December 17, 2015, 11:21:54 PM
A braked rifle produces noise levels in the neighborhood of 160 to 165 decibels. That is 32,000 greater noise intensity than 115 decibels. Louder than a jet taking off 50 yards away. One thousand times louder than a jackhammer. If shooting a braked rifle without protection does not produce permanent hearing loss, you are either lucky or in denial.
Post by: RadSav on December 18, 2015, 02:12:50 AM
please explain decelerater. does it only come as pachmyer?
Decelerator is Pachmayr's trade name. A pretty good name too as that is really what and how good recoil pads work. You can't eliminate recoil unless you add weight. But you can delay that recoil making it transfer into your shoulder over a longer moment of time.
Pachmayr uses a special Sorbothane material and Sims uses NavCom material. They act rather similar but are not the same. Both have separate patents so they definitely do not have the same recipe. As I understand it Sorbothane uses a synthetic plasticizer and Sims uses an organic plasticizer. In my experience Pachmayr's Sorbothane pad lasts longer and Sims NavCom controls recoil better.
Most of my guns have Sims pads on them. But as mentioned I do have a few magnums that had Decelerators when I bought them and I didn't feel the need to change as they do work well. I do have a few shotguns that see A LOT of blackberries, rotting corn filled sloughs and overall general nastiness. I have Pachmayr pads on those guns.
I have ruined a few NavCom pads and archery products over the years. Every one was my fault or the wife's fault. One pad was ruined when we used the shotgun stock as a platform to make our sandwiches for lunch. The wife got a little carried away with the mayonnaise and it turned the pad into jello in about 24 hours. Tillamook cheese I carry for the dogs wasn't as bad but still had an effect. And I can tell you that throwing your Jack in the Box - Ultimate Cheeseburger wrappers willy-nilly over your shoulder into the back seat isn't too good for the life of your NavCom either. :chuckle: Just remember to wash up after handling vegetable oil or animal fats and they should last a very long time.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 18, 2015, 09:41:33 AM
OSHA sets standards for acceptable noise levels in the workplace. The standards run from 85 to 115 decibels, with decreasing amounts of allowable exposure as the level increases. Decibel levels are logarithmic: an increase of 10 decibels is a 100 fold increase in noise intensity.Maybe I'm misreading a technicality, but 10db is a 10 fold increase. 130 db is 10X 120 db. Braked rifles (design dependent) should usually be between 3-10 db higher than unbraked counterparts. 3 db being double and 6 db being four time the pressure level.
A braked rifle produces noise levels in the neighborhood of 160 to 165 decibels. That is 32,000 greater noise intensity than 115 decibels. Louder than a jet taking off 50 yards away. One thousand times louder than a jackhammer. If shooting a braked rifle without protection does not produce permanent hearing loss, you are either lucky or in denial.
Post by: rtspring on December 18, 2015, 09:53:37 AM
Good news is, my bow has absolutely no recoil. :chuckle:
Post by: Bob33 on December 18, 2015, 10:06:16 AM
You're correct. Thanks.OSHA sets standards for acceptable noise levels in the workplace. The standards run from 85 to 115 decibels, with decreasing amounts of allowable exposure as the level increases. Decibel levels are logarithmic: an increase of 10 decibels is a 100 fold increase in noise intensity.Maybe I'm misreading a technicality, but 10db is a 10 fold increase. 130 db is 10X 120 db. Braked rifles (design dependent) should usually be between 3-10 db higher than unbraked counterparts. 3 db being double and 6 db being four time the pressure level.
A braked rifle produces noise levels in the neighborhood of 160 to 165 decibels. That is 32,000 greater noise intensity than 115 decibels. Louder than a jet taking off 50 yards away. One thousand times louder than a jackhammer. If shooting a braked rifle without protection does not produce permanent hearing loss, you are either lucky or in denial.
Post by: 12Gauge on December 18, 2015, 10:35:09 AM
According to the recoil table, your rifle is around 18.7 to 18.9 of recoil energy. You may want to look at going to a different caliber,
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
Post by: high country on December 18, 2015, 04:53:45 PM
Stock design has a very real affect on how the push reaches the shooter. The killer on moving to a stock with the geometry to help is the cost is quite high.
What action and barrel taper are you working with?
Post by: Antlershed on December 18, 2015, 06:33:50 PM
Post by: MarkyMark on December 18, 2015, 08:53:37 PM
Go Cougs!
Post by: splitshot on December 18, 2015, 09:36:50 PM
Post by: The scout on December 18, 2015, 09:50:17 PM
Post by: RadSav on December 18, 2015, 10:26:37 PM
I have a 25-06 but am hesitant to hunt elk with it. I don't see well and cant shoot well. so I need a gun with more ft-lbs. I borrowed my sons 270 wsm this year and liked it but it pushed me around and am trying to make the recoil less. mike w
If it was a Tikka or Sako I understand. Their factory pads are the absolute worst. Not much difference between them and the old metal plates. Put a Sims pad on there for about $40-50 and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
Post by: high country on December 19, 2015, 06:32:39 AM
Part of shooting well is being comfortable with the rifle, if you are nervous and anticipate recoil, your odds of ever shooting well are very low.
Post by: JBar on December 19, 2015, 07:58:38 AM
I have a 25-06 but am hesitant to hunt elk with it. I don't see well and cant shoot well. so I need a gun with more ft-lbs. I borrowed my sons 270 wsm this year and liked it but it pushed me around and am trying to make the recoil less. mike wThis comment bothers me but maybe I'm misunderstanding it or reading into too much. It sounds like you're trying to shoot a bigger magnum rifle because you are sure you'll make a bad shot. If that is the case you're going about it the wrong way. Shoot a lower recoil smaller round with good shot placement and you'll do fine. Limit your range to where you can consistently group in the kill zone. If this isn't what you meant then please explain your comment.
Post by: splitshot on December 19, 2015, 09:56:28 AM
Post by: Bill W on December 19, 2015, 10:01:45 AM
Post by: high country on December 19, 2015, 11:38:23 AM
Post by: thinkingman on December 19, 2015, 01:00:13 PM
Same thing I was thinking.I have a 25-06 but am hesitant to hunt elk with it. I don't see well and cant shoot well. so I need a gun with more ft-lbs. I borrowed my sons 270 wsm this year and liked it but it pushed me around and am trying to make the recoil less. mike wThis comment bothers me but maybe I'm misunderstanding it or reading into too much. It sounds like you're trying to shoot a bigger magnum rifle because you are sure you'll make a bad shot. If that is the case you're going about it the wrong way. Shoot a lower recoil smaller round with good shot placement and you'll do fine. Limit your range to where you can consistently group in the kill zone. If this isn't what you meant then please explain your comment.
Post by: M_ray on December 19, 2015, 01:28:09 PM
Mike, I have personally taken elk with 100 gr .25 Barnes x bullets and know of a guy in Wyoming with a lifetime of dead elk from his 25-06. It's plenty of gun, a lot more than people give it credit for.
:yeah:
Ask Huntnphhol how many elk,deer & bear his grandma took with a .243 ;) And it's his brothers choice of weapon still today! :tup: