Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: metlhead on December 23, 2015, 07:31:49 AM
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A good friend voiced a concern last night regarding Bluebill hunters. He asked that we only target drakes as this may help with low populations that call for the reduced bag limits. May be a futile effort getting those limits back up and for the birds themseves, but it couldn't hurt. I said yes. Will you
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The general consensus among wildlife bios is that sex-specific limits on ducks aren't really an effective population booster. The hen mallard restriction that has been in place for many, many years is essentially a result of hunter demand, not biological benefit. Additionally, scaup and many(?) other divers don't show adult plumage until after their first hunting season, which means that a lot of those "hens" are really juvenile drakes--no benefit to the population to save those over mature drakes.
So, no, probably not. I typically shoot big drakes out of a foolish sense of pride over a limit of green-headed greaters, but I certainly don't discourage my guests from taking easy, ethical shots on women and children.
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There seems to be numerous reasons for Blue Bill population issues and I'm no expert but passing on the hens only makes sense to me Metlhead. Especially since most of the birds in any given flock are drakes, it shouldn't be too hard. Years back when duck populations were all low, we wouldn't shoot hens of any kind. Just doin our part.
Good call.
I'm in.
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This is just ramblings and hopefully someone will fill me in on the actual answer, but I believe ducks mate in pairs so they are unlike deer where a buck can breed with multiple does. So in theory shouldn't you shoot the same amount of hens and drakes? My only exception would be if it is is scientific proof that more drakes are hatched each year.
I think duck population has a lot more to do with breeding grounds and habitat that it ever has to do with what hunters shoot.
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It is true about breeding habitat and predators being the greatest factor. But, I see no reason a drake won't whore around a bit if the ladies are available. And as it had been said before, dead hens can't lay eggs. Just doing a tiny part.
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Drakes will breed multiple hens. I think it's a good idea to only shoot drakes. :twocents:
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It is true about breeding habitat and predators being the greatest factor. But, I see no reason a drake won't *censored* around a bit if the ladies are available. And as it had been said before, dead hens can't lay eggs. Just doing a tiny part.
According to Utah DNR bluebills form monogamous relationships (http://dwrcdc.nr.utah.gov/rsgis2/search/Display.asp?FlNm=aythmari) that means they won't mess around with any other ladies. So in fact you're not helping out at all. Not trying to be a jerk just stating that it seems shooting a drake over a hen makes no real difference. The old adage of "a dead hen can't lay eggs" could have the counter argument of "a hen can't fertilizer her own eggs". If there isn't a drake around it doesn't matter if the hen lays eggs or not. I would say by doing your part you would be better off not shooting any at all.
Like I said before I haven't put a lot of research into this just some quick reading on the subject so if someone with better knowledge would like to chime in why shooting drakes over hen will increase population than I am all ears. I love learning new stuff!
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I stand corrected then. Thanks for posting that link, EWU. I didn't know that. They are different than most ducks then.
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Drakes will breed multiple hens. I think it's a good idea to only shoot drakes. :twocents:
Curly by some more reading I found that it seems Mallards will pair and the once their mate lays her eggs and then are fertilized he will then move on. Sometimes he will breed another hen and sometimes he won't. I would say that is a fair argument for shooting Drake MALLARDS over hens.
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Monogamous Blue Bills could be true but like the OP stated, dead hens or better yet - hens that no longer exist cannot produce any young the following spring and as far as how many drakes vs hens are born in a brood seems to be irrelevant when 7 - 8 out of 10 Blue Bills are drakes via my observations over numerous years of diver hunting. Shooting drakes when possible and passing on hens makes perfect sense to me.
Having the close relationship I've had with fisheries dept of the WDFW over the years has also taught me that some of the individuals contributing info to the decision making process are very young and truthfully lack any real experience in the field other than a given study or two. Hard to match that up with dozens of years of serious time in the woods, on the marsh or lake. Not saying they are wrong or dumb, just that we active outdoorsmens and women also know a thing or two and our years of wisdom shouldn't be ignored.
I'd have to think that anything we do to help waterfowl populations will pay us back in spades.
:twocents:
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Sakoshooter, hen bluebills can't produce any young if there are no drakes around. For bluebills at least it seems it's a two way street. As far as your observations that's one person seeings and not any real data. The groups I have seen of bluebills locally seem to be pretty well distributed.
I agree 100% that anything we can do to give back to waterfowl population we should. I think that's why most people belong to WWA, DU or both.
All this being said I haven't shot a single hen bluebill all season and mostly try to shoot drakes. I don't do so to think I am helping the population by doing so. If you think you not shooting hens will help why not let all bluebills pass 100%.
I'm not a duck bio or anything so if someone has some great facts about laying off hens or bluebill breeding then I will eat my words and apologize.
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If you read older waterfowl books often the authors expected all their readers to crow hunt, if they were serous about duck numbers, this was due to the loss crows cause in waterfowl populations, I know of 0" hard core crow hunters and I have never seen so many crows as in western wA. Perhaps we should all slay more crows...
I'm in...
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I shoot crows, every chance I get.
I try mostly for drakes. They take better pics.
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As do I I even get to legally shoot them year around because of the deprivation they cause the fruit trees
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I try mostly for drakes. They take better pics.
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That's why I shoot them.
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If you read older waterfowl books often the authors expected all their readers to crow hunt, if they were serous about duck numbers, this was due to the loss crows cause in waterfowl populations, I know of 0" hard core crow hunters and I have never seen so many crows as in western wA. Perhaps we should all slay more crows...
I'm in...
I never knew or thought crows as a predator to ducks (well their nests). I think I may have to try help population control some. I never tried shooting one because I never really learned the difference between a crow and Raven. I will have to study up on that too. Thanks for the info.
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I heard that hens in general are less because of nesting in grass. Makes them vulnerable especially to racoons which are relatively new to North america
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Just read this:
Threats[edit]
Common predators of the greater scaup are owls, skunks, raccoons, foxes, coyotes, and humans.[5] Greater scaup often find themselves entangled in fishing nets, thus large numbers of them drown in nets each year. Greater scaup can catch avian influenza, so future outbreaks have the potential to threaten greater scaup populations.[14]
Although the greater scaup faces numerous threats, the most significant challenge to their survival is habitat degradation caused by a mix of human development and runoff.[27] Greater scaup, when moulting and during the winter, are threatened by escalated levels of organochloride contaminants. Oil and sewage pollution also threaten this duck. Since 80% of the greater scaup population winters in the urbanized part of the Atlantic Flyway, these ducks are subject to high levels of organic contaminates, along with increased levels of heavy metals in foods and habitat.[16]
A joint group of American and Canadian scientists researching scaup migration across the Great Lakes found that 100% of female greater scaup, and 77% of female lesser scaup, had escalated levels of selenium in their bodies. Selenium is an occurring semimetallic trace element that occurs naturally in some soils and minute amounts are necessary for animal life. However excessive selenium can cause reproductive harm and is highly toxic. On their migration across the Great Lakes, greater scaups are at risk of ingesting selenium by eating the invasive zebra mussels, which can render a hen infertile.[3] This sterilization of hens is causing the population to decrease.
In a study of 107 scaup, they all had traces of iron, zinc, manganese, copper, lead, cadmium, cobalt and nickel in their tissue samples with varying concentrations of metals in different types of tissues. Further analysis revealed that the kidneys had the highest levels of cadmium, the liver had the highest levels of copper and manganese, the liver and the stomach had the highest levels of zinc, and the lungs and liver had the highest levels of iron.[28] There was no difference in concentration when comparing genders.
Also, here's the link to all of it. Read similar in a previous study found when I did a Google search.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_scaup
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Wow, the excessive presence of metals in scaup makes me wonder how safe they are to eat?
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Wait... so you mean to tell me there are other ducks besides mallards?
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Wow, the excessive presence of metals in scaup makes me wonder how safe they are to eat?
The previous studies say yes. But the amount is enough to create problems with egg laying and hatching.
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Lots of greaters(Blue Bills) showing up lately and I must admit that the drake - hen ratio seems higher. In past years I've always noticed how many drakes were in every bunch that came in. Hopefully that's a good sign and hopefully populations go up and limits follow with an increase.