Post by: Curly on December 28, 2015, 09:44:07 AM
Is it simply because they are cool? 8) If so that's cool. But are there other reasons to consider an AR vs. any number of other choices in bolt action rifles?
I really don't know much about them, thus the reason for this thread. Aren't they heavy and more expensive than a bolt gun?
:dunno:
Please educate me guys....
Post by: grundy53 on December 28, 2015, 09:51:23 AM
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 28, 2015, 09:52:45 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 28, 2015, 09:54:46 AM
Post by: Oh Mah on December 28, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 28, 2015, 09:58:10 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 28, 2015, 10:04:24 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 28, 2015, 10:08:17 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 28, 2015, 10:22:15 AM
Recoil management and options like different pistol grips, adjustable stocks and arm guards which make getting into a shooting position more natural. And, the Zombie problem. You never know.Zombie's is definitely the number 1 reason. I assumed that just went without saying :dunno:
Post by: bhawley76 on December 28, 2015, 10:23:29 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 28, 2015, 10:26:01 AM
Post by: bobcat on December 28, 2015, 10:26:41 AM
I don't know, but I just don't see them as being all that popular.
I've never actually seen someone out hunting deer or elk with one. So really, how popular are they? :dunno:
Most people who do hunt with them most likely do so because it's all they have.
Now I do see them as being ideal for predator hunting. Short, multiple shots possible, low recoil, accurate.
If I had the time to hunt predators and the money to buy an AR, I'd have one for sure. But I have neither so I'll stick to my bolt action rifles.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 28, 2015, 10:27:36 AM
ARs are really just Legos for big boys and girls
not just that, but we get to feel all tacticool and "Operator like" when running around in the woods with a Ar15.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 28, 2015, 10:29:07 AM
I think also that someone has the opportunity to build a top long distance MSR for about half the price it would cost to have a standard rifle built to the same accuracy capabilities and same comfort.
LOL, I am currently in the middle of a build like that... but for about 1/5 the cost of the MSR.
Post by: DaveMonti on December 28, 2015, 10:33:38 AM
All over the NE, in rural forested areas, there are hundreds of thousands of deer camps, which are nothing more than a cabin with an outhouse, some with electric, very few with running water. They were all built after WWI and WWII after the troops returned home. The veterans were now familiar with firearms and wanted to get out into the big woods and hunt.
It is the same with the popularity of the ARs. MANY folks who went into the service for the recent conflicts came back, having been trained by Uncle Sam on firearms, and the firearm of choice was what they were familiar with, he AR. AR popularity really surged when these veterans returned after the first Gulf War, and with all this hardware on the market, other consumers followed suit. Now, for many of the reasons stated above, many prefer to shoot and hunt with an AR.
Personally, I don't have a desire to go semi auto in the filed (except for small game and waterfowl with a semi auto shotgun). When I grew up hunting in Pennsylvania, semi autos were not legal for anything but shotgunning for small game and waterfowl. I'm not sure what the laws are now, but some states did allow semi autos, like New York. The one season I hunted deer in New York in the 80s was literally like urban warfare, with strings of rapid fire all day long. Any deer was legal, and everyone had semi auto Browning semi auto hunting rifles (not "tactical" as they weren't readily available at the time).
Not many who have gotten into shooting in the past 10 years or so realize that before the conflicts in the Middle East, VERY few people owned any type of semi auto rifle. They just simply weren't available on the open market. If you went to a FA dealer, the racks were packed with more traditional firearms. Now, most small shops I go into are only the tactical type firearms. Personally, I miss the old days!
Post by: cbond3318 on December 28, 2015, 10:35:47 AM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 28, 2015, 10:37:51 AM
Um yeah, who wouldn't want to take their big game hunting style to " Delta " mode? Shakin' down the local Squirrel populations for intel on the whereabouts of the herd bull, traversing through crunchy pinecones and loose scree like a Serbian mine field. way cool....:tup: :yeah:
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 28, 2015, 10:38:51 AM
plinking or pest problem throw on your .22 LR upper or insert a conversion bolt
Coyote hunting throw on the 5.56
deer - depending on were you live almost any caliber you want
hog - .450 bushmaster upper or 458 SOCOM
tank - no problem, you can launch a .50 BMG with the right upper
They are like legos for big kids, I love building them almost more than shooting them.
Just about anybody who has served has shot something similar and there is a lot to be said for owning something that you are already familiar with.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 28, 2015, 10:41:54 AM
I think also that someone has the opportunity to build a top long distance MSR for about half the price it would cost to have a standard rifle built to the same accuracy capabilities and same comfort.
LOL, I am currently in the middle of a build like that... but for about 1/5 the cost of the MSR.
I don't think that's the norm, especially if you're not machining or woodcrafting yourself. Buying a fine, custom, precision bolt action rifle isn't cheap.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 28, 2015, 10:50:30 AM
Post by: ghosthunter on December 28, 2015, 11:12:32 AM
The answer from my son was , It is the platform I used for four years in the Marines.
The other young man said the same thing. It is what my generation came up on. :dunno:
Post by: follow maggie on December 28, 2015, 11:18:18 AM
Post by: EmeraldBullet on December 28, 2015, 12:05:19 PM
Post by: 300rum on December 28, 2015, 12:30:50 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 28, 2015, 12:39:16 PM
Recoil management is probably the number 1 reason. :twocents: Number 2 is probably cost,To buy a better rifle would cost a lot more than say an AR-10.That would shoot as well.
I've got to disagree with the cost thing. There are bunches of $500 rifles that shoot amazingly well. Ruger American, Savage, Weatherby Vanguard...the list goes on. I don't think an AR platform'd rifle exists that costs less than $500 that will run with any of those rifles I mentioned in an accuracy standpoint.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 28, 2015, 12:47:58 PM
Recoil management is probably the number 1 reason. :twocents: Number 2 is probably cost,To buy a better rifle would cost a lot more than say an AR-10.That would shoot as well.
I've got to disagree with the cost thing. There are bunches of $500 rifles that shoot amazingly well. Ruger American, Savage, Weatherby Vanguard...the list goes on. I don't think an AR platform'd rifle exists that costs less than $500 that will run with any of those rifles I mentioned in an accuracy standpoint.
Off the rack, I'd agree. But for a precision custom rifle, I think that pendulum swings the other way.
Post by: Curly on December 28, 2015, 12:55:17 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on December 28, 2015, 12:55:55 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on December 28, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
So, what ballpark price range would it be for a decent AR to be used for deer or elk? :dunno:Cabelas just had an ar-10 on sale for just under $800
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 12:59:16 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 28, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
So, what ballpark price range would it be for a decent AR to be used for deer or elk? :dunno: (That would get less than 1" groups at 100 yards).
I bet decent for $1500 or less. Awesome for $2500 or less (including good glass). Hammer?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
Barrel and trigger are a must for a good shooting rifle semi or bolt. Get quality there and the other parts are just operator choices.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 01:22:54 PM
1000.00 for a home built 6.5 Grendel. 1200.00 for a home built AR-10 in 308 etc case.
Barrel and trigger are a must for a good shooting rifle semi or bolt. Get quality there and the other parts are just operator choices.
Add Cerakote and all the extra high end goodies along with quality part and or billet and it's quite a bit more.
Post by: Oh Mah on December 28, 2015, 01:32:08 PM
Post by: 300rum on December 28, 2015, 01:36:11 PM
Barrel and trigger are a must
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2015, 01:40:16 PM
1000.00 for a home built 6.5 Grendel. 1200.00 for a home built AR-10 in 308 etc case.
Barrel and trigger are a must for a good shooting rifle semi or bolt. Get quality there and the other parts are just operator choices.
Add Cerakote and all the extra high end goodies along with quality part and or billet and it's quite a bit more.
Quality name upper and lower like spartan, RRA 2 stage, black hole barrel. Magpul gear etc. I can build the Grendel for 1000.00 all day long. Done it several times.
The cerakote is a option that a guy does not need to get a 1" rifle. The extra goodies are nice but not needed to achieve the 1" groups.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 28, 2015, 01:43:24 PM
1000.00 for a home built 6.5 Grendel. 1200.00 for a home built AR-10 in 308 etc case.
Barrel and trigger are a must for a good shooting rifle semi or bolt. Get quality there and the other parts are just operator choices.
Like I said, with good glass, add another $500.
Post by: huntnphool on December 28, 2015, 01:46:25 PM
Because I can...
Bingo!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2015, 01:49:13 PM
So, what ballpark price range would it be for a decent AR to be used for deer or elk? :dunno: (That would get less than 1" groups at 100 yards).
1000.00 for a home built 6.5 Grendel. 1200.00 for a home built AR-10 in 308 etc case.
Barrel and trigger are a must for a good shooting rifle semi or bolt. Get quality there and the other parts are just operator choices.
Like I said, with good glass, add another $500.
I was answering Curly. I didn't think he was looking for glass just the rifle build cost.
Post by: Buzz2401 on December 28, 2015, 02:02:59 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 28, 2015, 02:07:58 PM
I wonder how much a Ruger American .308 with custom stock,Almost zero recoil ,Muzzle brake(AR),and detachable mag would cost?Yes there are some fine rifles out there that are less the cost. :tup:
Well, ya didn't say all that. You said...
Quote
Number 2 is probably cost,To buy a better rifle would cost a lot more than say an AR-10.That would shoot as well.Lots of guns would shoot as well as a $1000 AR, and would be half the price. I guess it depends on your definition of a "better" rifle.
You can buy one of those Ruger Precision Rifles for $1099. They shoot.
:dunno:
Post by: jrebel on December 28, 2015, 02:10:02 PM
1. They are very heavy
2. They are very loud.....I don't walk with one in the chamber and when I went to chamber a round, it was very loud. Imagine metal on metal with spring sound while trying to chamber a round. Anything withing 500 yards will hear you.
If you hunt from a stand or blind and can sit with a round chambered it would probably work well. They are fun and the recoil is very light in comparison to bolt rifles. I still shoot .223 and even take it coyote hunting once in a while but for big game I prefer my bolt guns. :tup:
Post by: jackelope on December 28, 2015, 02:12:18 PM
If you do this to a reg. bolt action does it costs less?
But you don't have to do all this to a "regular" bolt action rifle. You don't have to have cerakote on anything to make a rifle shoot better.
I have zero experience with AR's. Literally I think I might have shot one once or twice in my life. If I spend $1200.00 on a factory built, store bought AR10, will it shoot under 1" for sure?
Understood...capable shooter, quality ammo, etc. Because there are multiple sub $500 rifles that might even come with a sub-moa guarantee out of the box. Not trying to argue, just want to clarify what my point was.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 02:14:19 PM
1000.00 for a home built 6.5 Grendel. 1200.00 for a home built AR-10 in 308 etc case.
Barrel and trigger are a must for a good shooting rifle semi or bolt. Get quality there and the other parts are just operator choices.
Add Cerakote and all the extra high end goodies along with quality part and or billet and it's quite a bit more.
Quality name upper and lower like spartan, RRA 2 stage, black hole barrel. Magpul gear etc. I can build the Grendel for 1000.00 all day long. Done it several times.
The cerakote is a option that a guy does not need to get a 1" rifle. The extra goodies are nice but not needed to achieve the 1" groups.
A basic AR yes, a quality custom no. If you want to put together a cheep Grendel that will shoot. Purchase the Ruger AR for 500.00 bucks. Plain as it gets, throw a 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt on it along with a 12.00 magazine and your ready to Rock. A Prius will get you there but I would be caught dead in one.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2015, 02:23:36 PM
1000.00 for a home built 6.5 Grendel. 1200.00 for a home built AR-10 in 308 etc case.
Barrel and trigger are a must for a good shooting rifle semi or bolt. Get quality there and the other parts are just operator choices.
Add Cerakote and all the extra high end goodies along with quality part and or billet and it's quite a bit more.
Quality name upper and lower like spartan, RRA 2 stage, black hole barrel. Magpul gear etc. I can build the Grendel for 1000.00 all day long. Done it several times.
The cerakote is a option that a guy does not need to get a 1" rifle. The extra goodies are nice but not needed to achieve the 1" groups.
A basic AR yes, a quality custom no. If you want to put together a cheep Grendel that will shoot. Purchase the Ruger AR for 500.00 bucks. Plain as it gets, throw a 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt on it along with a 12.00 magazine and your ready to Rock. A Prius will get you there but I would be caught dead in one.
:chuckle: I think you are way over thinking it.
This is the question: "So, what ballpark price range would it be for a decent AR to be used for deer or elk? :dunno: (That would get less than 1" groups at 100 yards)"
Decent AR in 6.5 custom parts as asked 1000.00 no problem. I can build you one if you like hammer :chuckle:
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 28, 2015, 02:28:55 PM
1000.00 for a home built 6.5 Grendel. 1200.00 for a home built AR-10 in 308 etc case.
Barrel and trigger are a must for a good shooting rifle semi or bolt. Get quality there and the other parts are just operator choices.
Add Cerakote and all the extra high end goodies along with quality part and or billet and it's quite a bit more.
Quality name upper and lower like spartan, RRA 2 stage, black hole barrel. Magpul gear etc. I can build the Grendel for 1000.00 all day long. Done it several times.
The cerakote is a option that a guy does not need to get a 1" rifle. The extra goodies are nice but not needed to achieve the 1" groups.
A basic AR yes, a quality custom no. If you want to put together a cheep Grendel that will shoot. Purchase the Ruger AR for 500.00 bucks. Plain as it gets, throw a 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt on it along with a 12.00 magazine and your ready to Rock. A Prius will get you there but I would be caught dead in one.
:chuckle: I think you are way over thinking it.
This is the question: "So, what ballpark price range would it be for a decent AR to be used for deer or elk? :dunno: (That would get less than 1" groups at 100 yards)"
Decent AR in 6.5 custom parts as asked 1000.00 no problem. I can build you one if you like hammer :chuckle:
That be about like you pinch hitting for the "Babe". :chuckle:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2015, 02:39:14 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on December 28, 2015, 02:45:22 PM
not wanting to argue either.I was agreeing with you to a point.The main word I used was BETTER I put the stock stuff out there for the ar for that reason.It would take more than $500 to get a bolt action rifle with what comes stock on the ar.As I stated earlier Cabelas had an ar-10 on sale for under $800 so they are out there when they are out there.I wonder how much a Ruger American .308 with custom stock,Almost zero recoil ,Muzzle brake(AR),and detachable mag would cost?Yes there are some fine rifles out there that are less the cost. :tup:
Well, ya didn't say all that. You said...QuoteNumber 2 is probably cost,To buy a better rifle would cost a lot more than say an AR-10.That would shoot as well.Lots of guns would shoot as well as a $1000 AR, and would be half the price. I guess it depends on your definition of a "better" rifle.
You can buy one of those Ruger Precision Rifles for $1099. They shoot.
:dunno:
Post by: theleo on December 28, 2015, 03:14:29 PM
Post by: lamrith on December 28, 2015, 03:30:02 PM
For me I chose it because it is what I know and am comfortable with, lugged it around 7days in AZ in Oct with no issues. Heavy pack was far more a burden than the AR was..
Post by: dontgetcrabs on December 28, 2015, 03:46:13 PM
I tried getting into the fad of the ar style rifle and just couldn't. Here is what changed my mind and why I chose not to hunt with them.
1. They are very heavy
2. They are very loud.....I don't walk with one in the chamber and when I went to chamber a round, it was very loud. Imagine metal on metal with spring sound while trying to chamber a round. Anything withing 500 yards will hear you.
If you hunt from a stand or blind and can sit with a round chambered it would probably work well. They are fun and the recoil is very light in comparison to bolt rifles. I still shoot .223 and even take it coyote hunting once in a while but for big game I prefer my bolt guns. :tup:
Defiantly not a fad. As technology advances so do hunters. The bolt gun will go to the niche market just like the lever actions did.
#1 Mine is not noticeably heavier than a similarly equipped bolt rifle.
#2 Closing the bolt on a AR is no louder than closing one on a bolt gun. Unless you just pull the charging handle back and let it fly.
Post by: bobcat on December 28, 2015, 03:56:16 PM
:o Are you serious? No way will AR's ever replace bolt action rifles for big game hunting.
Post by: dontgetcrabs on December 28, 2015, 03:58:36 PM
"Definitely not a fad. As technology advances so do hunters. The bolt gun will go to the niche market just like the lever actions did."
:o Are you serious? No way will AR's ever replace bolt action rifles for big game hunting.
Maybe not the AR, but something more advanced will put bolt guns in an archive!
Post by: Oh Mah on December 28, 2015, 03:59:52 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 04:19:23 PM
So, what ballpark price range would it be for a decent AR to be used for deer or elk? :dunno: (That would get less than 1" groups at 100 yards).
I bet decent for $1500 or less. Awesome for $2500 or less (including good glass). Hammer?
Depends on what they want most of the guys that I deal with want a truley custom AR, that's why their not buying one of the shelf and most often than not they don't care what it costs just as long as it's the way they want it and it SHOOTS! I can't recall a build without Cerakote even if their black, it's graphite black Cerakote.
Sure Carp , whenever I can't swing everything. I'll kick some action your way. :tup:
Post by: jackelope on December 28, 2015, 04:23:31 PM
All things considered, will most $800 AR's shoot MOA out of the box?
(ok to put a scope on it)
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 04:26:11 PM
All things considered, will most $800 AR's shoot MOA out of the box?
(ok to put a scope on it)
Most and it's hard to find a AR that won't shoot 1/2-3/4 MOA with the right handload and pilot.
Post by: Bob33 on December 28, 2015, 04:26:44 PM
Defiantly not a fad. As technology advances so do hunters. The bolt gun will go to the niche market just like the lever actions did.I can't speak for others, but I can assure you that my bolt actions will not go away or get relegated to non-use.
Post by: James on December 28, 2015, 04:41:44 PM
Service members that are just using the gun that is familiar to them. One of my hunting buddies is a former marine and he hunts with a DPMS AR10. He picked it up for 700ish bucks new IIRC, got a trigger job, a good piece of glass and it shoots well under 1 MOA. When I have asked him why he hunts with it his response is "It just feels right, I have so much trigger time behind these type of guns that everything is natural". I will admit after shooting it this year, it's really nice, minimal recoil and accurate. He also the most reliable deer hunter in my group of friends (in terms of getting deer most years). I don't see this any different than service members from WWI and II that buy surplus military guns as their hunting weapons (cost incentive aside).
I have also seen a number of guys that were never into hunting or shooting that build an AR as a project. They build them because it's fun, then after a few times at the range, it's a "now what?" If three gun or other shooting sports don't interest them I have seen some want to try and take up hunting.
We should welcome these new hunters into our family with open arms.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 28, 2015, 05:01:28 PM
I'm with bob. I LOVE my black gun but my bolt actions aren't getting retired any time in the next 3 or 4 decades, and I'm not even old like him :chuckle: :sry: :bdid: :peep:Defiantly not a fad. As technology advances so do hunters. The bolt gun will go to the niche market just like the lever actions did.I can't speak for others, but I can assure you that my bolt actions will not go away or get relegated to non-use.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2015, 05:03:29 PM
Sure Carp , whenever I can't swing everything. I'll kick some action your way. :tup:
Sounds good to me as long as your hands don't burn from touching a rifle without Cerakote :chuckle:
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 05:11:09 PM
Sure Carp , whenever I can't swing everything. I'll kick some action your way. :tup:
Sounds good to me as long as your hands don't burn from touching a rifle without Cerakote :chuckle:
Everyone knows that Cerakote on a AR gives you 100fps in velocity gain no matter the chambering. Haven't had a guy turn down Cerakote yet😬
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 28, 2015, 05:17:35 PM
Does it work on bows too? :chuckle:Sure Carp , whenever I can't swing everything. I'll kick some action your way. :tup:
Sounds good to me as long as your hands don't burn from touching a rifle without Cerakote :chuckle:
Everyone knows that Cerakote on a AR gives you 100fps in velocity gain no matter the chambering. Haven't had a guy turn down Cerakote yet
Post by: Oh Mah on December 28, 2015, 05:27:20 PM
Post by: zike on December 28, 2015, 05:32:12 PM
I tried getting into the fad of the ar style rifle and just couldn't. Here is what changed my mind and why I chose not to hunt with them.
1. They are very heavy
2. They are very loud.....I don't walk with one in the chamber and when I went to chamber a round, it was very loud. Imagine metal on metal with spring sound while trying to chamber a round. Anything withing 500 yards will hear you.
If you hunt from a stand or blind and can sit with a round chambered it would probably work well. They are fun and the recoil is very light in comparison to bolt rifles. I still shoot .223 and even take it coyote hunting once in a while but for big game I prefer my bolt guns. :tup:
Defiantly not a fad. As technology advances so do hunters. The bolt gun will go to the niche market just like the lever actions did.
#1 Mine is not noticeably heavier than a similarly equipped bolt rifle.
#2 Closing the bolt on a AR is no louder than closing one on a bolt gun. Unless you just pull the charging handle back and let it fly.
My older AR 10 is a lot heavier then my bolt action guns.
Neither of my ar's are MOA guns, they do have crap triggers like all cheap AR's.
I tryed to ease the bolt down on my AR10 on a little buck standing near a logging road. It jammed the round in sideways and I had to clear it and let it slam home. The stupid little buck was still there eating apples so I took it out of the gene pool.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 05:36:08 PM
Does it work on bows too? :chuckle:Sure Carp , whenever I can't swing everything. I'll kick some action your way. :tup:
Sounds good to me as long as your hands don't burn from touching a rifle without Cerakote :chuckle:
Everyone knows that Cerakote on a AR gives you 100fps in velocity gain no matter the chambering. Haven't had a guy turn down Cerakote yet
Only if I get to stick your wallet for the Cerakote job!
Post by: papisjeep on December 28, 2015, 05:45:24 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 28, 2015, 05:46:40 PM
Post by: James on December 28, 2015, 05:57:08 PM
I have been considering building an AR10 for hunting elk in the rainforest. Shots are generally well under 75 yards. While the last two elk have been bang flops, I think being able to sneak a second round into an elk and give you a bit more blood to trail could be handy in the deep dark wet rain forest.
Post by: tbotts on December 28, 2015, 06:17:10 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 06:20:10 PM
My opinion is. Two is one, one is none. A AR would be perfectly suited for shooting a Elk into the ground. This "One shot, one kill" is stupid movie crap! Even the hot rod, evil *censored*s that lurk in the dark currently so we can enjoy our freedom know better to pull the trigger more than once. I don't care if I pop a Elk 5 times as fast as I can pull the trigger or work the bolt.
Some clowns refer to it as "Dumping Mags" those usually have never had a reason to dump a mag. So don't understand the mag dump thing isn't hunting related and very seldom used in its other text.
5 rounds from a AR is faster than some shmuck can say U-N E-T-H-I-C-A-L!
Deads,dead. I can care less if he has one hole or five through the ribs, who cares. It hits the BBQ just the same.
Sure Bang-Flops are cool! With on a moving running shot in the thick timber, I like to stick it to them.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2015, 06:21:45 PM
More related to the OP's question than my first response:
I have been considering building an AR10 for hunting elk in the rainforest. Shots are generally well under 75 yards. While the last two elk have been bang flops, I think being able to sneak a second round into an elk and give you a bit more blood to trail could be handy in the deep dark wet rain forest.
I agree. The fast follow up is great. I'm from the school of if they are on there feet there getting another bullet. You might take a look at a 338 federal or 450 marlin in a AR 10 with those close ranges that marlin would be a ELK smacker!!!
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 06:27:29 PM
Post by: Dan-o on December 28, 2015, 06:27:58 PM
I really don't think AR's are all that popular for big game hunting. I just don't see many guys carrying them.
I still see WAYYYYYYYYYY more bolt guns out hunting.
I've only seen one or two AR's out for big game.
I'm not anti-AR........................... I'm actually really jealous of some of the ones Biggerhammer posts up on here.
I have 3 AR's, but they're all 223/5.56, so no big game with an AR for me....... . yet. 8)
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 28, 2015, 06:29:32 PM
The .338 Federal would be a tough one to beat in close.
What would the recoil be like on that without a muzzle brake?
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2015, 06:35:35 PM
The .338 Federal would be a tough one to beat in close.
What would the recoil be like on that without a muzzle brake?
A gas system/ semi auto will be less than that of a bolt rifle. The .308 Winchester isn't jack when it comes to recoil. Little heavier bullet with the .338 Federal but still restricted by its case capacity for powder charge. My 8 year old daughter wouldn't even sweat it from the prone.
Post by: philepe on December 28, 2015, 09:31:44 PM
Post by: EmeraldBullet on December 28, 2015, 10:19:44 PM
Adjustable stock and lightweight are two big reasons but my original reason to hunt with an AR was to stop carrying an iron sight gun and a scoped gun. instead I just have a quick detach scope with iron sights backup under the scope on one gun. Also I just kinda think the AR is cool
I like my setup in that the stock is adjustable, I have a trijicon acog for longer range and a red dot for shorter range. My rifle setup is not light weight though, definitely comparably heavy.
Post by: actionshooter on December 28, 2015, 10:40:56 PM
A huge bonus for ARs is familiarity, modularity (as mentioned many times) and they are just easier to shoot faster with follow up shots when needed.
I see a few guys mention that they don't see guys using the AR platform, well they aren't looking hard enough....its the fastest growing rifle platform for hunting right now, not so much here in the West, but in the South and East it is one of the most popular rifles for hunting hogs, whitetails, and yotes.
EVERY manufacturer has a hunting model right now and they are some of the best sellers in the product lines. ARs aren't going to be replacing bolt actions they aren't a fad either.
Not all of them are heavy and loud either :) 6-1/2pounds, .308 and dang quiet
Post by: dreamunelk on December 28, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
It is a Rifle! If it shoots a legal size bullet accurately then it really does not matter what it looks like!
Post by: bearpaw on December 28, 2015, 10:53:48 PM
Not sure how I missed this one. If it has not be said there is one thing that all need to consider.
It is a Rifle! If it shoots a legal size bullet accurately then it really does not matter what it looks like!
:tup: nicely said
Post by: actionshooter on December 28, 2015, 10:54:43 PM
It is a Rifle! If it shoots a legal size bullet accurately then it really does not matter what it looks like!
:yeah:
Post by: 6.8mmARHunter on December 29, 2015, 03:39:51 AM
So I have this rifle, now what? I think I'll go deer hunting. Turns out that you need at least a 6mm (.24") to hunt deer. I did some research and decided i would pick up a 6.8mm AR15 upper. You just pop out two pins, take off the 5.56 upper and slap on the 6.8 upper and away you go. I ended up building a dedicated lower for the 6.8.
When I planned a hiking, backpacking, and fishing trip to Alaska, neither of those rifles seemed big enough for Grizzly defence. I decided I'd build a bigger rifle. I ended up putting together a .458 SOCOM AR15. 10 + 1, 350 Grain projectiles as fast as you can pull the trigger. I convinced myself I was good to go if a bear wanted to snack on me. We didn't encounter any Bears, but I was glad to have a bigbore autoloader.
Anyway, I think maybe versatile and capable are good descriptors.
Post by: bobcat on December 29, 2015, 05:28:13 AM
Not sure how I missed this one. If it has not be said there is one thing that all need to consider.
It is a Rifle! If it shoots a legal size bullet accurately then it really does not matter what it looks like!
:tup: nicely said
I'm not sure anyone has a problem with the way they look. That's irrelevant. The reason most people don't choose to hunt with an AR style rifle is they're simply not practical and not cost effective. You can have a decent bolt action rifle with scope for $500. A person could hunt big game with that same $500 rifle for 20 years and never have a need for anything else. I just can't imagine myself ever feeling like I need faster follow up shots in a deer and elk rifle. I prefer accuracy and one shot kills over firepower. So no, the way they look is not the reason why I wouldn't use one. Although I do have to say, thinking about it now, it would feel weird to me, like I was going to war instead of going hunting. If I ever do feel the urge to try one, my practical side would probably decide to spend that money on an out of state hunting trip instead.
Post by: grundy53 on December 29, 2015, 05:59:33 AM
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Post by: grundy53 on December 29, 2015, 06:00:46 AM
Where is Jim Zumbo to answer this when we need him? ;):chuckle: how did that work out for him? :chuckle:
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Post by: bobcat on December 29, 2015, 06:02:11 AM
I don't see how an AR isn't practical? And they are accurate.
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The cost. I already have a bolt action rifle and it's all I need.
So if you were to only have one rifle for all of your big game hunting, would it be an AR?
Post by: grundy53 on December 29, 2015, 06:07:04 AM
I don't see how an AR isn't practical? And they are accurate.
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The cost. I already have a bolt action rifle and it's all I need.
So if you were to only have one rifle for all of your big game hunting, would it be an AR?
I think you are definitely in the minority if you only have one hunting rifle. I think most people that hunt regularly have at least a couple. I personally like to fit the rifle I'm using to the style of hunting I am doing. The right tool for the job. Besides I was talking about the practicality of actually hunting with an Ar not of owning one.
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Post by: bobcat on December 29, 2015, 06:14:12 AM
I don't see how an AR isn't practical? And they are accurate.
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The cost. I already have a bolt action rifle and it's all I need.
So if you were to only have one rifle for all of your big game hunting, would it be an AR?
I think you are definitely in the minority if you only have one hunting rifle. I think most people that hunt regularly have at least a couple. I personally like to fit the rifle I'm using to the style of hunting I am doing. The right tool for the job. Besides I was talking about the practicality of actually hunting with an Ar not of owning one.
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I have a few but what I'm saying is I could easily get by with just one. The rifle I use the most I've had since 1997, and none of the others I have are "better," they're just different rifles that do the exact same thing, and they very rarely are taken out of the safe. If I had an AR it would just be another one of those rifles that never leaves the safe.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 29, 2015, 06:27:55 AM
Post by: RadSav on December 29, 2015, 06:51:24 AM
I have used many different semi-auto hunting rifles. The old Valmet we used back in the mid-late 80's for pig control hunts in S.Carolina put some serious hurting on the swine population. But I can't say I liked it as much as the Remington or Browning sporters. It was one heck of a lot lighter than the HK though :o
The AR platforms tickle my fancy every once in a while. But never enough for me to spend any money on them. I'd never bash somebody for buying one if they can afford it, but I myself will stick with bolts, levers and the occasional No.1.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 29, 2015, 07:03:43 AM
Not sure how I missed this one. If it has not be said there is one thing that all need to consider.
It is a Rifle! If it shoots a legal size bullet accurately then it really does not matter what it looks like!
:tup: nicely said
I'm not sure anyone has a problem with the way they look. That's irrelevant. The reason most people don't choose to hunt with an AR style rifle is they're simply not practical and not cost effective. You can have a decent bolt action rifle with scope for $500. A person could hunt big game with that same $500 rifle for 20 years and never have a need for anything else. I just can't imagine myself ever feeling like I need faster follow up shots in a deer and elk rifle. I prefer accuracy and one shot kills over firepower. So no, the way they look is not the reason why I wouldn't use one. Although I do have to say, thinking about it now, it would feel weird to me, like I was going to war instead of going hunting. If I ever do feel the urge to try one, my practical side would probably decide to spend that money on an out of state hunting trip instead.
Some of us don't care what something costs, if we want it we get it? Most often than not the funds are there for many, it's what they choose to do with it. Nothing wrong with that, I choose to buy lots of powder, primers and bullets for whatever I'm tinkering with. I get board with stuff very quickly and it's on to the next , rifle, AR, shotgun, handgun, chambering, build, wildcat ETC.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 29, 2015, 07:05:45 AM
I don't see how an AR isn't practical? And they are accurate.
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The cost. I already have a bolt action rifle and it's all I need.
So if you were to only have one rifle for all of your big game hunting, would it be an AR?
How about you start a separate thread with that question? You side tracked the Elk/AR ethics thread several by doing such.
Post by: bobcat on December 29, 2015, 07:11:34 AM
I don't see how an AR isn't practical? And they are accurate.
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The cost. I already have a bolt action rifle and it's all I need.
So if you were to only have one rifle for all of your big game hunting, would it be an AR?
How about you start a separate thread with that question? You side tracked the Elk/AR ethics thread several by doing such.
Really? LOL
I sure don't recall me being the one that sidetracked that other thread. Hilarious! It was already sidetracked by the time I got involved.
I have no desire to start another thread on this topic.
Post by: lamrith on December 29, 2015, 07:28:36 AM
After Sandyhook, I picked up an AR because my government wasn't going to allow me to have one going forward. Don't even ask how much I paid for it. It was only a 5.56mm (.223").And thus fell into the trap and why many of us like AR's. They are legos for big boys.. It gets really bad when you realize you have a spare LPK or handguard in the closet and "have" to use it... Ahhh crap, another rifle in the safe...
So I have this rifle, now what? I think I'll go deer hunting. Turns out that you need at least a 6mm (.24") to hunt deer. I did some research and decided i would pick up a 6.8mm AR15 upper. You just pop out two pins, take off the 5.56 upper and slap on the 6.8 upper and away you go. I ended up building a dedicated lower for the 6.8.
When I planned a hiking, backpacking, and fishing trip to Alaska, neither of those rifles seemed big enough for Grizzly defence. I decided I'd build a bigger rifle. I ended up putting together a .458 SOCOM AR15. 10 + 1, 350 Grain projectiles as fast as you can pull the trigger. I convinced myself I was good to go if a bear wanted to snack on me. We didn't encounter any Bears, but I was glad to have a bigbore autoloader.
Anyway, I think maybe versatile and capable are good descriptors.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 29, 2015, 07:58:41 AM
After Sandyhook, I picked up an AR because my government wasn't going to allow me to have one going forward. Don't even ask how much I paid for it. It was only a 5.56mm (.223").And thus fell into the trap and why many of us like AR's. They are legos for big boys.. It gets really bad when you realize you have a spare LPK or handguard in the closet and "have" to use it... Ahhh crap, another rifle in the safe...
So I have this rifle, now what? I think I'll go deer hunting. Turns out that you need at least a 6mm (.24") to hunt deer. I did some research and decided i would pick up a 6.8mm AR15 upper. You just pop out two pins, take off the 5.56 upper and slap on the 6.8 upper and away you go. I ended up building a dedicated lower for the 6.8.
When I planned a hiking, backpacking, and fishing trip to Alaska, neither of those rifles seemed big enough for Grizzly defence. I decided I'd build a bigger rifle. I ended up putting together a .458 SOCOM AR15. 10 + 1, 350 Grain projectiles as fast as you can pull the trigger. I convinced myself I was good to go if a bear wanted to snack on me. We didn't encounter any Bears, but I was glad to have a bigbore autoloader.
Anyway, I think maybe versatile and capable are good descriptors.
It seems you find the more "Hands on" types building or shooting AR's. The simplicity and the overwhelming aftermarket part support. I would rather pile it up and put it together then hand my $$$ to a chump counter monkey if I can help it.
Same goes for rifles with bedding, pillars, different stocks, free floating barrels, opening base holes to 8/40 the list goes on. I would much rather tinker in the reloading room or work than sit on the sofa or in the recliner and stare at the TV.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 29, 2015, 08:03:06 AM
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 29, 2015, 08:04:56 AM
I don't see how an AR isn't practical? And they are accurate.
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The cost. I already have a bolt action rifle and it's all I need.
So if you were to only have one rifle for all of your big game hunting, would it be an AR?
I will bite. YES. One rifle with two or three uppers in different calibers. Its like owning a TC with different barrels except its not a single shot break action.
In my experience those $500 bolt guns with the scope do not shot as well as an AR. Last one I had the stock would twist when using a bipod throwing shots all over the place. So another stock cost me about $300 and then the scope was poop so I spent some more money on that. Its a nice gun now, but cost as much as I could build a nice AR for and when I moved out here and to meet all the strange deer hunting restriction all I had to do was build a second upper rather than rebarrel an action.
Post by: lamrith on December 29, 2015, 08:25:21 AM
Hey guys, no bad feelings over guns. We all like different guns for different reasons. If you don't agree with the reasons, that's your own personal standards, not someone else's. WTH? :dunno:None taken! I love a good bolt gun too. Sadly I do not have one in the stable currently, but I am working on that slowly and the plan is it will be my next aquisition...
Post by: JDHasty on December 29, 2015, 09:37:54 AM
I tried getting into the fad of the ar style rifle and just couldn't. Here is what changed my mind and why I chose not to hunt with them.
1. They are very heavy
2. They are very loud.....I don't walk with one in the chamber and when I went to chamber a round, it was very loud. Imagine metal on metal with spring sound while trying to chamber a round. Anything withing 500 yards will hear you.
If you hunt from a stand or blind and can sit with a round chambered it would probably work well. They are fun and the recoil is very light in comparison to bolt rifles. I still shoot .223 and even take it coyote hunting once in a while but for big game I prefer my bolt guns. :tup:
:yeah: Add to that that I can carry a CZ527 or a Sako A1 much more comfortably and the only time I grab an AR15 is for predator calling where I will be set up. I have absolutely no desire to lug an AR10 around in the field, I have had a couple Colt Hbars that I used to shoot DCM with and have packed them in the field before I got my Remington R15 and that cured me of ever even thinking I would want to tote around an AR10 big game hunting.
Post by: Curly on December 29, 2015, 10:03:08 AM
Thanks.
p.s. - can someone explain what a lower and an upper is? Probably a dumb question, but I won't know unless I ask.........or I could Google it I guess. :dunno:
Post by: boneaddict on December 29, 2015, 10:14:19 AM
Part of the allure of the sport is being effective with multiple weapons. Why pigeon hole yourself into one. One day it might be a lever action carbine, one day an AR, the next day, a spear. Oh, that's been outlawed maybe.....some user group might have thought it was ineffective so we should ban it.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on December 29, 2015, 10:21:42 AM
The lower is the part that holds the trigger, mag, etc and is also the ATF regulated piece because it carries the serial number.
The upper carries the bolt carrier group with firing pin, the barrel attaches to it, sights, etc.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 29, 2015, 10:25:14 AM
More related to the OP's question than my first response:I've used an AR in the deep, dark rainforest for varmints and didn't feel disadvantaged for not using one for bigger game. In the real heavy stuff, I can't seem to get a second shot anyways--so auto, lever, pump wouldn't have made any advantages there. Maybe in the alder bottoms could get a decent follow up. Definitely different in the open country, mixed terrains where you can see the animal again after a first shot. If you're in a clear cut, I could see it being a big advantage. The only performance issue I had with the AR in the rainforest was after about a week of being rained on, ice/snow, mud and fir needles is that it can be a little bit of a dog and need some cleanings/oiling. The lugs seem to get sticky. But they are weatherproof in all the other regards, like corrosion and point of impact shifts.
I have been considering building an AR10 for hunting elk in the rainforest. Shots are generally well under 75 yards. While the last two elk have been bang flops, I think being able to sneak a second round into an elk and give you a bit more blood to trail could be handy in the deep dark wet rain forest.
Post by: Curly on December 29, 2015, 10:39:55 AM
300 Win mag with low recoil.
I bet Inslee will try some sort of ban. And if Hillary gets in office she is going after guns. Seems like AR sales are likely to go thru the roof. :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on December 29, 2015, 10:51:03 AM
The recoil reduction and accuracy aspect of a good AR is intriguing. I found this video on Youtube:
300 Win mag with low recoil.
I bet Inslee will try some sort of ban. And if Hillary gets in office she is going after guns. Seems like AR sales are likely to go thru the roof. :twocents:
That is pretty amazing. Is that a standard 300 Win Mag? Whatever it is, I bet it's not cheap.
Post by: Buzz2401 on December 29, 2015, 11:40:26 AM
Post by: grundy53 on December 29, 2015, 11:45:28 AM
The recoil reduction and accuracy aspect of a good AR is intriguing. I found this video on Youtube:I want one! :drool:
300 Win mag with low recoil.
I bet Inslee will try some sort of ban. And if Hillary gets in office she is going after guns. Seems like AR sales are likely to go thru the roof. :twocents:
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Post by: grundy53 on December 29, 2015, 11:46:45 AM
I haven't read the 5 pages.....but to,answer the OPs question, I think the obvious answer is...because we can. America is on its way to being regulated out of existence, but at this point in time, we can, and some are obviously effective enough therefore, go for it.Exactly! Variety is the spice of life.
Part of the allure of the sport is being effective with multiple weapons. Why pigeon hole yourself into one. One day it might be a lever action carbine, one day an AR, the next day, a spear. Oh, that's been outlawed maybe.....some user group might have thought it was ineffective so we should ban it.
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Post by: DJ_Mack on December 29, 2015, 12:51:03 PM
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Post by: fly-by on December 29, 2015, 04:59:13 PM
The .338 Federal would be a tough one to beat in close.
What would the recoil be like on that without a muzzle brake?
Used to have a DPMS Lite Hunter in .338 Fed. It had a brake and had just a little more recoil than a .308 AR-10 with brake. I assume the relationship for unbraked is similar.
Post by: James on December 29, 2015, 09:45:28 PM
I've used an AR in the deep, dark rainforest for varmints and didn't feel disadvantaged for not using one for bigger game. In the real heavy stuff, I can't seem to get a second shot anyways--so auto, lever, pump wouldn't have made any advantages there. Maybe in the alder bottoms could get a decent follow up. Definitely different in the open country, mixed terrains where you can see the animal again after a first shot. If you're in a clear cut, I could see it being a big advantage. The only performance issue I had with the AR in the rainforest was after about a week of being rained on, ice/snow, mud and fir needles is that it can be a little bit of a dog and need some cleanings/oiling. The lugs seem to get sticky. But they are weatherproof in all the other regards, like corrosion and point of impact shifts.
I agree. The fast follow up is great. I'm from the school of if they are on there feet there getting another bullet. You might take a look at a 338 federal or 450 marlin in a AR 10 with those close ranges that marlin would be a ELK smacker!!!
Thanks guys for the feedback.
In regards to being able to get a second shot, no doubt the rainforest is tricky, trying to get a shooting lane seems like quite often most of the battle. While sometimes they do bolt when I shoot, I have on a number of occasions after my first shot had all the elk in the herd turn and stare in the direction of the shot (me) for just the amount of time it takes me to rack another round (put not quite pull the trigger). With a semi auto I am sure I could have put another round in them. That's the cows and the bulls. Also I was thinking of getting a suppressor for two reasons; one my hearing and two I was hoping it might give me another second or two to fire off another round.
In regards to AR's dealing with the environment of the rainforest, that is my big concern. I typically hunt for 9 days during elk general season in the rain forest. I also tend to hunt in the worse and most difficult possible locations (I hate seeing people when I hunt) and it is brutal on my equipment, like you said mud/snow/rain/pine needles/etc. even my very simple bolt guns can cause problems, bringing in a more complicated system (like an AR) is a concern.
Is it possible to build an AR10 and have everything but the springs be made of stainless steel, aluminum, or composite? I know that will not keep mud/pine needles/ice/etc from plugging things up, but it is a start.
Post by: Yondering on January 02, 2016, 10:25:21 PM
I'll through it out there, If I'm hunting in an area that is timbered, or brushy and I know shots are going to be under 200yds the AR10 is my go-to rifle.
A huge bonus for ARs is familiarity, modularity (as mentioned many times) and they are just easier to shoot faster with follow up shots when needed.
I see a few guys mention that they don't see guys using the AR platform, well they aren't looking hard enough....its the fastest growing rifle platform for hunting right now, not so much here in the West, but in the South and East it is one of the most popular rifles for hunting hogs, whitetails, and yotes.
EVERY manufacturer has a hunting model right now and they are some of the best sellers in the product lines. ARs aren't going to be replacing bolt actions they aren't a fad either.
Not all of them are heavy and loud either :) 6-1/2pounds, .308 and dang quiet
Actionshooter, what handguard is that, and how wide is it?
I have the Midwest SS15 handguard on my 308 and like it, but yours looks like it may be even slimmer. I like thin handguards on hunting guns.
Post by: actionshooter on January 03, 2016, 06:43:25 PM
That rifle is a factory built Christensen Arms CA-10 in .308, you can buy a carbon fiber handguard separately but they are a touch on the spendy side.I'll through it out there, If I'm hunting in an area that is timbered, or brushy and I know shots are going to be under 200yds the AR10 is my go-to rifle.
A huge bonus for ARs is familiarity, modularity (as mentioned many times) and they are just easier to shoot faster with follow up shots when needed.
I see a few guys mention that they don't see guys using the AR platform, well they aren't looking hard enough....its the fastest growing rifle platform for hunting right now, not so much here in the West, but in the South and East it is one of the most popular rifles for hunting hogs, whitetails, and yotes.
EVERY manufacturer has a hunting model right now and they are some of the best sellers in the product lines. ARs aren't going to be replacing bolt actions they aren't a fad either.
Not all of them are heavy and loud either :) 6-1/2pounds, .308 and dang quiet
Actionshooter, what handguard is that, and how wide is it?
I have the Midwest SS15 handguard on my 308 and like it, but yours looks like it may be even slimmer. I like thin handguards on hunting guns.
http://www.christensenarms.com/products/components/carbon-handguard-rifle-length/
Post by: mountainman on January 03, 2016, 06:59:19 PM
played with a few of those...nice and lightweight!That rifle is a factory built Christensen Arms CA-10 in .308, you can buy a carbon fiber handguard separately but they are a touch on the spendy side.I'll through it out there, If I'm hunting in an area that is timbered, or brushy and I know shots are going to be under 200yds the AR10 is my go-to rifle.
A huge bonus for ARs is familiarity, modularity (as mentioned many times) and they are just easier to shoot faster with follow up shots when needed.
I see a few guys mention that they don't see guys using the AR platform, well they aren't looking hard enough....its the fastest growing rifle platform for hunting right now, not so much here in the West, but in the South and East it is one of the most popular rifles for hunting hogs, whitetails, and yotes.
EVERY manufacturer has a hunting model right now and they are some of the best sellers in the product lines. ARs aren't going to be replacing bolt actions they aren't a fad either.
Not all of them are heavy and loud either :) 6-1/2pounds, .308 and dang quiet
Actionshooter, what handguard is that, and how wide is it?
I have the Midwest SS15 handguard on my 308 and like it, but yours looks like it may be even slimmer. I like thin handguards on hunting guns.
http://www.christensenarms.com/products/components/carbon-handguard-rifle-length/
Post by: Yondering on January 04, 2016, 12:08:33 AM
The website doesn't say how wide they are; if you get a chance to measure yours I'd sure like to know.
Post by: REHJWA on January 04, 2016, 04:22:12 AM
Post by: Stein on January 04, 2016, 10:10:06 PM
ARs are popular now for the same reason the 30-06 was popular after WW2.
Still popular in many circles, mine included.
I have nothing against the AR, if that is what you want to shoot, you should. Today, you can buy just about any rifle and shoot it 1 moa or under out of the box. A really workable optic can be bought for $250. A guy should shoot what brings him pleasure.