Post by: bobcat on January 02, 2016, 01:31:26 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 02, 2016, 02:15:38 PM
Post by: jasnt on January 02, 2016, 02:21:05 PM
Leg length and slender proportions indicate wild rather than any of the bronze domestic breeds. Based on the pale buff ends of the tail feathers and tail coverts, they look most like wild Merriams.:yeah:
Post by: bobcat on January 02, 2016, 02:31:35 PM
Post by: JKEEN33 on January 02, 2016, 02:45:35 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 02, 2016, 02:53:17 PM
Post by: jasnt on January 02, 2016, 03:11:43 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 02, 2016, 04:52:25 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on January 02, 2016, 04:56:03 PM
They sure do look like merriams birds.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 03, 2016, 04:56:21 PM
I'd bet your correct doublelung
Disagree....there are still Easterns that have not been compromised. Perhaps Rio's in some parts of the Southeast and Merriams in Klickitat. Most hybridization occured in NE and central NE.
Unfortunately there are always those who think they can help the local population by turning game farm stock out.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 04, 2016, 06:57:21 AM
You may well be right. You definitely are about the game farm stock, wild birds are pretty easy to trap in the winter too. I know of no confirmed unauthorized transplants, but have sure heard a bunch of stories about the birds baited into a horse trailer "on my buddy's place in Eastern WA" and driven west over the crest or up the Methow - some of which seem to coincide with the appearance of new flocks like this one (though the ones I'm thinking of in particular are in eastern Lewis County and eastern Snohomish).I'd bet your correct doublelung
Disagree....there are still Easterns that have not been compromised. Perhaps Rio's in some parts of the Southeast and Merriams in Klickitat. Most hybridization occured in NE and central NE.
Unfortunately there are always those who think they can help the local population by turning game farm stock out.
Back in the late 80s I worked on a telemetry study of Eastern behavior in northern New England - heavily forested country in NH and VT. When a clutch was predated those hens typically undertook a 20-50 air mile relocation, and found new areas with local birds - often pockets of wild turkeys we didn't know existed (this was about 14 years after the birds were reintroduced in NH after being extirpated in NH and ME). That behavior and migratory capability, in dense forest habitat similar to western WA, is the basis of my suspicion there are few, if any, uncompromised Eastern flocks.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 04, 2016, 12:06:29 PM
You may well be right. You definitely are about the game farm stock, wild birds are pretty easy to trap in the winter too. I know of no confirmed unauthorized transplants, but have sure heard a bunch of stories about the birds baited into a horse trailer "on my buddy's place in Eastern WA" and driven west over the crest or up the Methow - some of which seem to coincide with the appearance of new flocks like this one (though the ones I'm thinking of in particular are in eastern Lewis County and eastern Snohomish).I'd bet your correct doublelung
Disagree....there are still Easterns that have not been compromised. Perhaps Rio's in some parts of the Southeast and Merriams in Klickitat. Most hybridization occured in NE and central NE.
Unfortunately there are always those who think they can help the local population by turning game farm stock out.
Back in the late 80s I worked on a telemetry study of Eastern behavior in northern New England - heavily forested country in NH and VT. When a clutch was predated those hens typically undertook a 20-50 air mile relocation, and found new areas with local birds - often pockets of wild turkeys we didn't know existed (this was about 14 years after the birds were reintroduced in NH after being extirpated in NH and ME). That behavior and migratory capability, in dense forest habitat similar to western WA, is the basis of my suspicion there are few, if any, uncompromised Eastern flocks.
Not being that familiar with northern New England woodlands, I assuming there is a differencve between them and our coniferous western Washington forest lands. Again I'm assuming the majority of those upper New England woodlands are dominated by decideous species...i.e. birch, beech and maple. If I'm assuming right, then perhaps it's not a fair comparison to Easterns in western Washington as far as your reseach finding have indicated.
Dense forest is in the eye of the beholder. Again not familiar with those areas you reseached, but growing up off and on in the midwest and south, decidous forest are much easier to transverse than what we generally have in western Washington. Again...my assumption.
Easterns in western Washington are indeed ghost like. That is unless you have paid your dues and figured them out. Generally speaking there are birds still in many of the original areas they were introduced into. Problem is they like a specific habitat type....as does any species. When it changes, and it does quickly on the coast, they move in an effort to find what they had, but outgrew them so to speak. Usually they don't move far as a crow flies, but unless you understand this, most hunters assume they are no longer there. Wrong, they just relocated somewhere nearby. Finding them though unless you understand this, posses most a problem, Couple that with the general lack of sound, sign and other telltale signs make those without determination give up and head east.
Game farm birds have been a small issue over the years. Fortunately it's usually easy to determine either by coloration and equally so, habits as to their nature. Usually tamed down, perching and defficating on decks and roofs are the general telltale signs.
Now I'm not saying that there has not been some possible hybridization where game farm birds have been released, but if so, it has been minor, as most of our Easterns tend to be way more secretive in nature and location away from domestic type sites. Also years ago WDFW used to be on top of having the person get rid of those birds or at the least pen them up. Not sure it's the same today.
Double....that is pretty amazing though that those hens moved that far in your study....almost replicates Rio hen winter to spring location movements in parts of Texas.