Hunting Washington Forum

Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: huey on January 26, 2009, 03:45:47 PM

Title: HB1214 Establishing the volunteer search and rescue account.
Post by: huey on January 26, 2009, 03:45:47 PM: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1214.pdf

As a 35 year member of Search and Rescue in Washington State, some financial support would be welcome to the SAR community. However, as a hunter and fisherman, I find this proposal unfair in that it appears to place the burden solely on hunters and fisherman. (See section 2, paragraph 2) While I don't have the hard numbers in front of me, I am fairly comfortable stating that of those we assist thru Search and Rescue, maybe 5% to 10% are hunters or fisherman. The majority, far & away are in the hiker/climber category. If you believe the other outdoor user groups should share the burden, now is the time to drop your legislator a note stating your opinion.
Title: Re: HB1214 Establishing the volunteer search and rescue account.
Post by: Ray on January 26, 2009, 03:47:03 PM: I'd bet it's 90% hiker and climbers.
Title: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on January 29, 2009, 09:13:15 PM: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1214.pdf (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1214.pdf)

The idiots in Olympia want to tack on a surcharge to hunting/fishing licenses for SAR. >:(
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: ICEMAN on January 29, 2009, 09:17:41 PM: If they would just start nailing those who have needed SAR before with the invoice, maybe they wouldnt need to even try this crap.
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on January 29, 2009, 09:18:41 PM: Seems to me, 98% of all SAR missions are for dumb ass hikers. I dont see them paying any surcharge on anything. :bash:
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: luvtohnt on January 29, 2009, 09:19:07 PM: From my understanding it has always been there, that isn't one of the changes that is taking place. I have already wrote all the appropriate people and requested that all public land access permits include this surcharge, since other user groups use this service more often than hunters do.

Brandon
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: Tom Tamer on January 29, 2009, 09:25:51 PM: Don't most SAR guy volunteer?? I could be wrong , they do it more for the common good? Do most volunteers ask to be paid, I could see if some moron was hiking up Mt Rainier in sandals and shorts in January being held liable for the cost but for the guy who falls down a ravine have to pay to rescue? Pretty damn pathetic.

Don't we already pay State and federal taxes that in turn pay for the Coast Guard and other rescue and aid sources? Here's a concept, the Gov't prioritize their spending then I'm sure they could afford it...oh wait Obama has to stimulate the economy by buliding skate parks, condoms and revamping ACORN so he can get re-elected.
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: Al Bundy on January 29, 2009, 09:31:08 PM: Quote from: Tom Tamer on January 29, 2009, 09:25:51 PM
Don't most SAR guy volunteer?? I could be wrong , they do it more for the common good? Do most volunteers ask to be paid, I could see if some moron was hiking up Mt Rainier in sandals and shorts in January being held liable for the cost but for the guy who falls down a ravine have to pay to rescue? Pretty damn pathetic.

Don't we already pay State and federal taxes that in turn pay for the Coast Guard and other rescue and aid sources? Here's a concept, the Gov't prioritize their spending then I'm sure they could afford it...oh wait Obama has to stimulate the economy by buliding skate parks, condoms and revamping ACORN so he can get re-elected.

That what I was going to say. This is for VOLUNTEER SAR groups. Seems to me VOLUNTEERS don't usually get paid for what they do.
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: robb92 on January 29, 2009, 09:32:51 PM: Most SAR groups are volunteer, when I was in High school I was part of SAR group in Walla Walla. They did it free of charge. Didn't cost the tax payers a dime for our service.
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: Tom Tamer on January 29, 2009, 09:38:39 PM: That's what I thought and most if not all don't expect or do it for payment? The only time I volunteered for anything and expected to get paid was when I joined the NAVY.
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: robb92 on January 29, 2009, 09:41:48 PM: I would lke to see if the state or any agency keeps track of the number of SAR call outs state wide, and who were the primary users for the service.
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: FrankDown on January 29, 2009, 09:43:31 PM: It is my understanding that volunteers can get reimbursed for expenses like fuel and what not for their time or efforts. They cannot be compensated for their time.

Since we dont, or wont be, coexisting with the hikers anylonger, why do we have to fund their safe return?

The hikers have been up in arms about the whole hunting in their forests thing lately witht he Sauk Mt incident. (well a lot of them have not everyone).
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: norsepeak on January 29, 2009, 09:43:54 PM: It is volunteer, however, equipment isn't free, and fuel isn't free. In our area, our local fire dept. who works side by side with SAR does about 5 fund raisers a year to buy equipment because our annual budget barely covers insurance, fuel, power, water etc. If we didn't have our fund raisers, we would still be using equipment from the 70's. I agree we don't need another surcharge or fee or tax or whatever you want to call it, but come up with solutions. Maybe get involved, donate or better yet volunteer. You never know when YOU might need it and wouldn't it be nice to know it's there and available when you do?
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: FrankDown on January 29, 2009, 09:57:17 PM: Is there anything like this being added to state park fees, national forest access passes, wilderness passes, etc?
Title: Re: This S#!T is getting out of hand!
Post by: RailRob on January 29, 2009, 10:31:24 PM: here is the thing..not one bloody cent is going to touch the hands of any local fire/ems... whats the point?ohhh to fund df&w! I see... if you are worried about it learn to read a map, buy gps, dont fall off of a cliff! Do alot of people have to get rescued on the westside alot? not much over here...few years back this got lost hunting..he walked out of the woods 25 miles from where he walked in..during the winter!
Title: Re: HB1214 Establishing the volunteer search and rescue account.
Post by: Ray on January 29, 2009, 10:44:09 PM: They should surcharge the Northwest Forest Pass sold at the local ranger stations. That would target the correct user group.
Title: Re: HB1214 Establishing the volunteer search and rescue account.
Post by: FrankDown on January 29, 2009, 11:10:45 PM: Ray, that is what I was looking for. I agree that the forest passes should be targeted.
Title: Re: HB1214 Establishing the volunteer search and rescue account.
Post by: FrankDown on January 30, 2009, 12:56:15 AM: Rep. Al O'Brien obrien.al@leg.wa.gov District 1 1 D
Rep. Roger Goodman goodman.roger@leg.wa.gov District 45 1 D
Rep. Christopher Hurst hurst.christopher@leg.wa.gov District 31 2 D
Rep. Mary Helen Roberts roberts.maryhelen@leg.wa.gov District 21 1 D

Paraphrased this from the above post. I dont want to step on anyones toes with using posts to make an email but the points are valid. If you have an objection to using it please let me know. I anyone wants to refine it or add to the list of people to email, do so. Heck, email everyone idf it would help...

Quote
As a hunter and fisherman, I find this proposal unfair in that it appears to place the burden solely on hunters and fisherman. (See section 2, paragraph 2)

While I don't have the hard numbers in front of me, I am fairly comfortable stating that of those we assist thru Search and Rescue, maybe 5% to 10% are hunters or fisherman.

The majority, far & away are in the hiker/climber category. I believe the other outdoor user groups should share the burden.

The Forest Service Forest Pass, State Park Access, and Wilderness Access should help pay for Search and Rescue efforts. Hikers and mountain climbers should help pay for their own Search and Rescue through their venures as well. Hunters and fishermen are doing enough already.

And heres everyone... Fo rfuture reference as well...
Name E-mail District Position Party
Rep. Gary Alexander alexander.gary@leg.wa.gov District 20 2 R
Rep. Glenn Anderson anderson.glenn@leg.wa.gov District 5 2 R
Rep. Jan Angel angel.jan@leg.wa.gov District 26 1 R
Rep. Sherry Appleton appleton.sherry@leg.wa.gov District 23 1 D
Rep. Mike Armstrong armstrong.mike@leg.wa.gov District 12 2 R
Rep. Barbara Bailey bailey.barbara@leg.wa.gov District 10 2 R
Rep. Brian Blake blake.brian@leg.wa.gov District 19 2 D
Rep. Tom Campbell campbell.tom@leg.wa.gov District 2 2 R
Rep. Reuven Carlyle carlyle.reuven@leg.wa.gov District 36 1 D
Rep. Bruce Chandler chandler.bruce@leg.wa.gov District 15 1 R
Rep. Maralyn Chase chase.maralyn@leg.wa.gov District 32 1 D
Rep. Frank Chopp chopp.frank@leg.wa.gov District 43 2 D
Rep. Judy Clibborn clibborn.judy@leg.wa.gov District 41 2 D
Rep. Eileen Cody cody.eileen@leg.wa.gov District 34 1 D
Rep. Cary Condotta condotta.cary@leg.wa.gov District 12 1 R
Rep. Steve Conway conway.steve@leg.wa.gov District 29 1 D
Rep. Don Cox cox.don@leg.wa.gov District 9 1 R
Rep. Larry Crouse crouse.larry@leg.wa.gov District 4 1 R
Rep. Bruce Dammeier dammeier.bruce@leg.wa.gov District 25 1 R
Rep. Jeannie Darneille darneille.j@leg.wa.gov District 27 2 D
Rep. Richard DeBolt debolt.richard@leg.wa.gov District 20 1 R
Rep. Mary Lou Dickerson dickerson.marylou@leg.wa.gov District 36 2 D
Rep. John Driscoll driscoll.john@leg.wa.gov District 6 2 D
Rep. Hans Dunshee dunshee.hans@leg.wa.gov District 44 1 D
Rep. Deborah Eddy eddy.deborah@leg.wa.gov District 48 2 D
Rep. Mark Ericks ericks.mark@leg.wa.gov District 1 2 D
Rep. Doug Ericksen ericksen.doug@leg.wa.gov District 42 1 R
Rep. Fred Finn finn.fred@leg.wa.gov District 35 2 D
Rep. Dennis Flannigan flannigan.dennis@leg.wa.gov District 27 1 D
Rep. Roger Goodman goodman.roger@leg.wa.gov District 45 1 D
Rep. Tami Green green.tami@leg.wa.gov District 28 2 D
Rep. Kathy Haigh haigh.kathy@leg.wa.gov District 35 1 D
Rep. Larry Haler haler.larry@leg.wa.gov District 8 2 R
Rep. Bob Hasegawa hasegawa.bob@leg.wa.gov District 11 2 D
Rep. Jaime Herrera herrera.jaime@leg.wa.gov District 18 1 R
Rep. Bill Hinkle hinkle.bill@leg.wa.gov District 13 2 R
Rep. Mike Hope hope.mike@leg.wa.gov District 44 2 R
Rep. Sam Hunt hunt.sam@leg.wa.gov District 22 2 D
Rep. Ross Hunter hunter.ross@leg.wa.gov District 48 1 D
Rep. Christopher Hurst hurst.christopher@leg.wa.gov District 31 2 D
Rep. Jim Jacks jacks.jim@leg.wa.gov District 49 1 D
Rep. Norm Johnson johnson.norm@leg.wa.gov District 14 1 R
Rep. Ruth Kagi kagi.ruth@leg.wa.gov District 32 2 D
Rep. Troy Kelley kelley.troy@leg.wa.gov District 28 1 D
Rep. Phyllis Gutierrez Kenney kenney.phyllis@leg.wa.gov District 46 2 D
Rep. Lynn Kessler kessler.lynn@leg.wa.gov District 24 2 D
Rep. Steve Kirby kirby.steve@leg.wa.gov District 29 2 D
Rep. Brad Klippert klippert.brad@leg.wa.gov District 8 1 R
Rep. Joel Kretz kretz.joel@leg.wa.gov District 7 2 R
Rep. Dan Kristiansen kristiansen.dan@leg.wa.gov District 39 1 R
Rep. Marko Liias liias.marko@leg.wa.gov District 21 2 D
Rep. Kelli Linville linville.kelli@leg.wa.gov District 42 2 D
Rep. Marcie Maxwell maxwell.marcie@leg.wa.gov District 41 1 D
Rep. John McCoy mccoy.john@leg.wa.gov District 38 1 D
Rep. Jim McCune mccune.jim@leg.wa.gov District 2 1 R
Rep. Mark Miloscia miloscia.mark@leg.wa.gov District 30 1 D
Rep. Jim Moeller moeller.jim@leg.wa.gov District 49 2 D
Rep. Dawn Morrell morrell.dawn@leg.wa.gov District 25 2 D
Rep. Jeff Morris morris.jeff@leg.wa.gov District 40 2 D
Rep. Sharon Nelson nelson.sharon@leg.wa.gov District 34 2 D
Rep. Daniel Newhouse newhouse.dan@leg.wa.gov District 15 2 R
Rep. Al O'Brien obrien.al@leg.wa.gov District 1 1 D
Rep. Ed Orcutt orcutt.ed@leg.wa.gov District 18 2 R
Rep. Timm Ormsby ormsby.timm@leg.wa.gov District 3 2 D
Rep. Tina Orwall orwall.tina@leg.wa.gov District 33 1 D
Rep. Kevin Parker parker.kevin@leg.wa.gov District 6 1 R
Rep. Kirk Pearson pearson.kirk@leg.wa.gov District 39 2 R
Rep. Jamie Pedersen pedersen.jamie@leg.wa.gov District 43 1 D
Rep. Eric Pettigrew pettigrew.eric@leg.wa.gov District 37 2 D
Rep. Skip Priest priest.skip@leg.wa.gov District 30 2 R
Rep. Tim Probst probst.tim@leg.wa.gov District 17 1 D
Rep. Dave Quall quall.dave@leg.wa.gov District 40 1 D
Rep. Dan Roach roach.dan@leg.wa.gov District 31 1 R
Rep. Mary Helen Roberts roberts.maryhelen@leg.wa.gov District 21 1 D
Rep. Jay Rodne rodne.jay@leg.wa.gov District 5 1 R
Rep. Christine Rolfes rolfes.christine@leg.wa.gov District 23 2 D
Rep. Charles Ross ross.charles@leg.wa.gov District 14 2 R
Rep. Sharon Tomiko Santos santos.sharontomiko@leg.wa.gov District 37 1 D
Rep. Joe Schmick schmick.joe@leg.wa.gov District 9 2 R
Rep. Larry Seaquist seaquist.larry@leg.wa.gov District 26 2 D
Rep. Mike Sells sells.mike@leg.wa.gov District 38 2 D
Rep. Matthew Shea shea.matt@leg.wa.gov District 4 2 R
Rep. Shelly Short short.shelly@leg.wa.gov District 7 1 R
Rep. Geoff Simpson simpson.geoff@leg.wa.gov District 47 1 D
Rep. Norma Smith smith.norma@leg.wa.gov District 10 1 R
Rep. Larry Springer springer.larry@leg.wa.gov District 45 2 D
Rep. Pat Sullivan sullivan.pat@leg.wa.gov District 47 2 D
Rep. Dean Takko takko.dean@leg.wa.gov District 19 1 D
Rep. Dave Upthegrove upthegrove.dave@leg.wa.gov District 33 2 D
Rep. Kevin Van De Wege vandewege.kevin@leg.wa.gov District 24 1 D
Rep. Deb Wallace wallace.deb@leg.wa.gov District 17 2 D
Rep. Maureen Walsh walsh.maureen@leg.wa.gov District 16 1 R
Rep. Judy Warnick District 13 1 R
Rep. Scott White white.scott@leg.wa.gov District 46 1 D
Rep. Brendan Williams williams.brendan@leg.wa.gov District 22 1 D
Rep. Alex Wood wood.alex@leg.wa.gov District 3 1 D
Title: Re: HB1214 Establishing the volunteer search and rescue account.
Post by: WonkyWapiti on February 01, 2009, 06:34:08 PM: Here in King County, SAR operations are run by the Sheriff's Office. The Sheriff's Office relies almostly solely on SAR volunteer groups (trackers, 4x4 rescue, bloodhounds, explorer search and rescue, horse patrol, etc). In the last 13 years I cannot recall a SAR mission for a hunter but there have been a ton for hikers, mountain climbers, lost kids, alzheimer's patients, etc in that time.
Title: Re: HB1214 Establishing the volunteer search and rescue account.
Post by: sisu on February 01, 2009, 07:11:23 PM: I'd like to see stats. on how rescues increased with the invention of the cell phone. I'll bet there was a BIG jump with people taking the responsibility off of self rescue, in other words taking responsibility away from themselves, and relying on BIG BROTHER to save their proverbial asses.
Title: Re: HB1214 Establishing the volunteer search and rescue account.
Post by: SuperDave on February 07, 2009, 07:57:13 AM: Quote from: sisu on February 01, 2009, 07:11:23 PM
I'd like to see stats. on how rescues increased with the invention of the cell phone. I'll bet there was a BIG jump with people taking the responsibility off of self rescue, in other words taking responsibility away from themselves, and relying on BIG BROTHER to save their proverbial asses.
Excellent point! Ray was spot on as well, tax the forest pass users, the ones who use it the most!!