Post by: dpfarrar84 on February 12, 2016, 06:45:16 PM
Heading out this fall for the first time. My wife has had venison that she really liked and venison that was "too gamey". From everything I have read so far it seems that the quicker you can fit the deer and cool the meat, the less gamey it will taste. First, is this accurate information? And second, assuming I bring a deer down, how long after it drops do I need to wait before gutting?
Thank you in advance! Sorry if this has already been covered, I am at the in-laws and therefore trying to navigate the forums with my phone instead of my computer...
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Post by: andrew_in_idaho on February 12, 2016, 06:48:21 PM
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Post by: ICEMAN on February 12, 2016, 06:50:54 PM
In my opinion, the "gamey-ness" she may be tasting is often the result of running the game through a band saw, IE: having the game processed at a butcher shop. A band saw drags fat, bone chips and marrow over each side of every steak.
I have great results from boning out the meat, and cutting steaks after all fat, sinew are first trimmed from the meat sections.
Your questions are always welcome. That is what this whole site is about.... And; Welcome!
Post by: DaveMonti on February 12, 2016, 06:52:54 PM
I'm not sure of the effect on gaminess, but the sooner you get the innards out, the faster it will cool. Most of the venison I've had has had a gaminess to it. The best way to combat that is in the prep of the venison. I tend to marinate it with something simple like Italian dressing (without any cheese) before I grill it. Ground meat will be best if you mix it with some ground pork or something with some fat in it. Otherwise it will be dry and it's more likely to have a gamey flavor.
I'm sure others will have plenty of recipes. I think there's a recipe section on the forum and there are some good game cook books out there.
Best of luck!
Post by: h20hunter on February 12, 2016, 06:57:58 PM
Post by: dpfarrar84 on February 12, 2016, 07:05:11 PM
Also, assuming I make a good shot about how long should I wait before approaching the deer?
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Post by: kisfish on February 12, 2016, 07:13:17 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 12, 2016, 07:16:30 PM
Get your meat cooled ASAP. But I'm not sure you'll notice any difference between getting it done in 5 minutes versus one hour. I don't even gut animals very often anymore. I really like the gutless method. You have to do all that when you get home or back to camp anyway, so IMO you might as well do it before moving the animal and save yourself a lot of work.
Post by: Emptyhanded on February 12, 2016, 07:19:47 PM
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Post by: kentrek on February 12, 2016, 07:22:12 PM
Deboning in the field is also up to you, it's a personal preference of mine to get the animal back to civilization in as big as peice as possible to reduce serf ace area exposed to dirt...obviously there's a point to where I can't physically get the animal back whole, in halfs,or in quarters, so then I debone in the field
There's no cut and dry answers to the waiting game....with a rifle I'm pretty confident that the animal is dead after I make a good shot...so usually just simply reload and walk up there
With a musket or a bow tho there can be times when you know there dead and others where you don't k own anything...so then it's more applicable to maybe wait 15-60 minutes depending on the situation
Allot of this game is personal preference, there's alot of ways to skin a cat...good luck :tup:
Post by: coachcw on February 12, 2016, 07:44:56 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 12, 2016, 07:55:15 PM
In my opinion there is no such thing as "gamey" meat. It's a myth.
:yike:
Every hunter I have ever talked with about wild game has mentioned that some game can have a "gamey" flavor if not processed properly.
Post by: bobcat on February 12, 2016, 07:56:25 PM
In my opinion there is no such thing as "gamey" meat. It's a myth.
:yike:
Every hunter I have ever talked with about wild game has mentioned that some game can have a "gamey" flavor if not processed properly.
If not processed properly, sure. What does beef taste like if it's not taken care of properly?
Post by: ICEMAN on February 12, 2016, 08:04:03 PM
Ever chew in a nice chunk of deer fat?
My taste buds do not mind beef or pork fat or marrow. Deer and Elk fat or marrow are a different story.
Post by: Stein on February 12, 2016, 08:44:32 PM
In my opinion there is no such thing as "gamey" meat. It's a myth. I've had tough meat from old animals but never "gamey." Just the word gamey is a word that should never be used, because it implies that the meat of wild game animals tastes bad.
Get your meat cooled ASAP. But I'm not sure you'll notice any difference between getting it done in 5 minutes versus one hour. I don't even guy animals very often anymore. I really like the gutless method. You have to do all that when you get home or back to camp anyway, so IMO you might as well do it before moving the animal and save yourself a lot of work.
:yeah:
"Gamey" comes from two sources:
1. A taste other than beef. People don't expect pork to taste like beef, but all wild game should. Funny thing is if you don't eat beef for a year and then try it, it will be gamey.
2. Poor meat handling skills. I gut and skin immediately unless I can drag it to a hanging spot quickly and then I just gut. Even if it is 80 below and dark, guts come out and skin comes off.
Post by: lokidog on February 12, 2016, 08:58:07 PM
In my opinion there is no such thing as "gamey" meat. It's a myth. I've had tough meat from old animals but never "gamey." Just the word gamey is a word that should never be used, because it implies that the meat of wild game animals tastes bad.
Get your meat cooled ASAP. But I'm not sure you'll notice any difference between getting it done in 5 minutes versus one hour. I don't even guy animals very often anymore. I really like the gutless method. You have to do all that when you get home or back to camp anyway, so IMO you might as well do it before moving the animal and save yourself a lot of work.
:yeah:
"Gamey" comes from two sources:
1. A taste other than beef. People don't expect pork to taste like beef, but all wild game should. Funny thing is if you don't eat beef for a year and then try it, it will be gamey.
2. Poor meat handling skills. I gut and skin immediately unless I can drag it to a hanging spot quickly and then I just gut. Even if it is 80 below and dark, guts come out and skin comes off.
Wrong!!!
I have shot several bucks during the rut that were taken care of quickly and properly and they still had a stronger "gamey" flavor than other deer, even ones that were not found until the next day or skinned and butchered for a few days in 50 degree weather.
Post by: Stein on February 12, 2016, 09:02:25 PM
Post by: Smokepole on February 12, 2016, 09:20:40 PM
Best is to gut ASAP. Prop cavity open to assist cooling. Skinning soon is smart IMHO.
In my opinion, the "gamey-ness" she may be tasting is often the result of running the game through a band saw, IE: having the game processed at a butcher shop. A band saw drags fat, bone chips and marrow over each side of every steak.
I have great results from boning out the meat, and cutting steaks after all fat, sinew are first trimmed from the meat sections.
Your questions are always welcome. That is what this whole site is about.... And; Welcome!
This is the true cause of gamey meat. I have gutshot animals and let them lay in the sun, and they always taste good. Any time you take a saw to a critter you get gamey meat. It's the fat & bone that kills the taste. :tup:
Post by: RB on February 12, 2016, 09:32:32 PM
Right away. 2nd the bone saw comments. Also, trim trim trim. Clean meat is best..no sinew, fat, or gristle.:yeah:
Deer Fat is Nasty! Some old timers like it but most newbies will thank you for nice clean meat! It will taste better and keep the casual venison eater coming back for more... :twocents:
Post by: lokidog on February 12, 2016, 10:21:58 PM
Why is there so much denial when it comes to rutty bucks? The only deer I have ever eaten that were strong tasting or "gamey" were ones that were clearly in the rut (you could smell them as you walked up to them) even though they were taken care of properly. :dunno:
FYI, I still eat them, though it is one reason I prefer to shoot deer during archery, muzzleloader, or late rifle where I live.
Post by: kodiak 907 on February 12, 2016, 10:30:56 PM
Venison is wild game, and it will never taste like a farm raised cow.
I don't believe in the "gamey" phrase. :twocents:
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 12, 2016, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on February 12, 2016, 10:40:06 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on February 12, 2016, 11:03:49 PM
I haven't noticed a difference in deer hide left on for a few days vs one skinned right away.
My biggest Blacktail killed in the rut was skinned right away but boy was it nasty tasting, clocked that one down. :chuckle:
Post by: Sakko300wsm on February 13, 2016, 06:35:22 AM
Good luck
Post by: MtnMuley on February 13, 2016, 07:15:53 AM
Post by: hardcorecarnivore on February 13, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq8mfe_live-hunt-how-to-debone-an-elk_sport
I agree with all of the other posts: No saws, trim fat, don't over cook, mix in pork or beef to fatten grind etc...
I would add that it's important to strain all of the blood off of the meat when thawing as it will carry a lot of "Gamey Flavor" IMO. Once thawed you can put in a container in the fridge on an elevated rack to continue draining. I season while thawing so the salt helps draw the blood out You typically won't have the environment to dry age so this will help to not boil when trying to brown. High heat and/or BBQ is my preferred method.
Man I'm craving now! Before I head for the freezer I would add I think all of my animals have had some cuts that taste better than others just like beef so you learn to sort properly while butchering. Some are just overall better even from the same environment and conditions regardless of age.
Post by: ICEMAN on February 13, 2016, 07:44:12 PM
Post by: DaveMonti on February 13, 2016, 08:23:48 PM
Do you guys that gut using the gutless method harvest the heart and liver?
Or more importantly, the tenderloins!
:drool:
Post by: hardcorecarnivore on February 13, 2016, 08:43:41 PM
Do you guys that gut using the gutless method harvest the heart and liver?
Or more importantly, the tenderloins!
:drool:
Yeah. A quick slit and pop them out. I'll admit the Tenderloins can be tricky to get the first time. I try to use my fingers to break free and then cut the ends.
Post by: Sakko300wsm on February 13, 2016, 09:08:26 PM
Exactly!! Actually quite easyDo you guys that gut using the gutless method harvest the heart and liver?
Or more importantly, the tenderloins!
:drool:
Yeah. A quick slit and pop them out. I'll admit the Tenderloins can be tricky to get the first time. I try to use my fingers to break free and then cut the ends.
Post by: Curly on February 13, 2016, 09:37:24 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on February 14, 2016, 09:17:10 AM
In my opinion there is no such thing as "gamey" meat. It's a myth. I've had tough meat from old animals but never "gamey." Just the word gamey is a word that should never be used, because it implies that the meat of wild game animals tastes bad.
Get your meat cooled ASAP. But I'm not sure you'll notice any difference between getting it done in 5 minutes versus one hour. I don't even guy animals very often anymore. I really like the gutless method. You have to do all that when you get home or back to camp anyway, so IMO you might as well do it before moving the animal and save yourself a lot of work.
:yeah:
"Gamey" comes from two sources:
1. A taste other than beef. People don't expect pork to taste like beef, but all wild game should. Funny thing is if you don't eat beef for a year and then try it, it will be gamey.
2. Poor meat handling skills. I gut and skin immediately unless I can drag it to a hanging spot quickly and then I just gut. Even if it is 80 below and dark, guts come out and skin comes off.
Wrong!!!
I have shot several bucks during the rut that were taken care of quickly and properly and they still had a stronger "gamey" flavor than other deer, even ones that were not found until the next day or skinned and butchered for a few days in 50 degree weather.
I've only had one taste bad and it was for this reason..he was a big bodied, swelled up stinky mess and he was chasing does and full of adrenaline
Post by: dpfarrar84 on February 15, 2016, 08:33:45 PM
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Post by: razzanof on February 18, 2016, 07:26:15 AM
Post by: DaveMonti on February 18, 2016, 07:33:19 AM
Where in PA are you from? I grew up outside Philly, about 30 miles north. Been here 8 years.
Dave
Post by: birddogdad on February 18, 2016, 07:51:13 AM
There is absolutely gammie meat .......getting meat cooled quick helps for sure , bone sawing meat , and leaving fat and seniw can affect taste. What the deer or elk feed on makes a difference , alfalfa fed are much better than sage deer imo. Sometimes I will drag a animal aways before gutting to keep it clean but typically once dead and photos are shot guts out or deboned.
for sure animals taste different based on environment. what they feed on ect.. the "strong" flavors can be dialed back by proper care in processing but game is exactly that.. game... some will not ever like the flavor and it will never taste like a beef steak in your butchers window.. seniw, fat and silverskin (IMO) contribute the most toward dominating flavors of the big game.. remove as much as you can to try and dial back this effect.. if she still turns her nose up, you can add beef or pork fat to grind. masking with spice may be your last resort, if all else fails, try a different critter, ie muley to blacktail or whitetail, they all have a unique flavor......
Post by: theleo on February 18, 2016, 08:58:38 AM
Treat the meat like you would high end piece of beef, get it somewhere cool as fast as you can. Would you want a T-bone if it had been sitting in heat and blood for hours, letting the bacteria decompose and break the meat down?
Post by: elkboy on February 18, 2016, 09:51:57 AM
And if you do have gamey meat... marinades, stews, pepperoni, etc... ;)
Post by: REHJWA on February 18, 2016, 10:55:09 AM
Also shot a mule deer and every meal had a distinct sage flavor.
Post by: sakoshooter on February 21, 2016, 12:30:35 AM
Best is to gut ASAP. Prop cavity open to assist cooling. Skinning soon is smart IMHO.
In my opinion, the "gamey-ness" she may be tasting is often the result of running the game through a band saw, IE: having the game processed at a butcher shop. A band saw drags fat, bone chips and marrow over each side of every steak.
I have great results from boning out the meat, and cutting steaks after all fat, sinew are first trimmed from the meat sections.
Your questions are always welcome. That is what this whole site is about.... And; Welcome!
Agreed. I bone mine when I cut it myself otherwise I ask for a boned cut at the butcher shop. You pay a little more but it's definitely worth it in my opinion.
Post by: pope on February 21, 2016, 06:42:59 PM
I tagged him and started cutting immediately, one side at a time via the gutless method, and definitely took the hide off. I drove home with the quarters in the back of my car, windows down (it was cold). That night and the next morning, I took all meat off the bone and discarded sinew and silver skin, put the meat in freezer bags and let it sit in a very cold fridge for almost one week.
The results were spectacular and made all the effort seem worth it. I don't know if it was the deer or the method I used, but the taste and texture are awesome. In retrospect, I wish I had not made so much burger (everything but back straps), but so many people had told me deer meat is not so wonderful, I was worried the family wouldn't like it.
Post by: Tbob on February 28, 2016, 01:48:46 PM
Post by: jmscon on February 29, 2016, 11:14:19 PM
If you butcher your own or have someone do it for you make sure it gets hung up in a cool dry place for a week. This will let the enzymes start to break down the meat so it's not so tough. Some of the best cuts of beef are aged 40 days!
Their diet has a lot to do with as well, I once asked my grandmother what her favorite cut of meat was. Answer? Deer that wasn't raised in the woods!
I've only gotten mulie does that are either grain or alfalfa fed gutted, skinned and in my truck in less than an hour from the shot. Some of the best meat 've ever had!
My opinion might change when I get my first buck!
Good luck!
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 03, 2016, 02:38:14 AM
Cross contamination
Stomach contents contacting meat................ This can come from cutting the bag during gutting, or an animal being gut shot. and contamination from a gut shot isn't limited to the stomach cavity. Once the bullet passes through the gut, it carries contamination wherever it travels. Any damage needs to be removed as soon as possible.
Urine or feces contacting meat..................... Either through a bad shot, or cutting the bladder or colon during gutting. Take your time and be careful. Also, bull elk will urinate on themselves during the rut. So if you grab the hide, then touch the raw meat, you are contaminating it.
Water ...................................................... Water can contain bacteria. It can enter through the bullet wound. one scenario would be if the animal falls in a lake or stream when it dies. Another would be through contacting the ground when the animal is skinned in the field.
Dirt, hair, leaves etc. .................................. Not being careful during skinning and handling, especially if done in the field. KEEP YOUR MEAT CLEAN!
Glands...................................................... The different glands on a deer or elk produce oils that will affect the taste of your game. There are the main glands on the hocks, but there are others including some on the face. These oils will be present on the hide so again, if you grab the hide, especially right on a gland, then touch the skinned meat, you are contaminating it. When skinning an animal let the hide hang sort of inside out and you peel it down so fur is against fur. Don't grab the hide on the hair side to pull then touch the meat. Grab the inside /skin side of the hide to pull. This reduces the chances of cross contamination.
Flies....................................................... Flies are attracted to blood and meat. They can lay eggs before you know it and also cross contaminate from whatever they have touched before they land on your meat.
Blood ..................................................... Blood can sour very quickly and bacteria will start growing. Clean excess blood from the carcass ASAP
Personally, I gut deer with as small an opening as possible to still get the guts out in the field. I usually don't skin them until I get to camp as the hide protects the meat from contamination. The more pieces you cut an animal into in the field means more bacteria getting into your meat and the possibility of cross contamination. getting a deer out whole is more work usually, but worth it in quality, I feel.
As for bacteria, here is the one of the best sources I've found about bacteria and wild meat quality.
http://www.pristineventures.com/our-blog/124-front-page/159-why-use-citric-acid-on-game-meat.html
Post by: Band on March 08, 2016, 11:57:51 AM
Also, bull elk will urinate on themselves during the rut. So if you grab the hide, then touch the raw meat, you are contaminating it.I don't believe many people consider this point but it's very true. I take at least 2 pairs of latex gloves when I go hunting so I have a fresh pair to put on once I'm finished skinning (to do the gutless method) and begin handling the meat. That's a good practice for any game animal IMO.
Post by: WaltAlpine on March 08, 2016, 12:51:05 PM
I don't gut mine at all - I quarter the animal out with the gutless method, and yes I do it right after the kill. I hang meat accordingly and trim away all nasty fat as I butcherWith my limited experience this is basically what we do.
Good luck
Gutless and we bring something to put on the ground to keep the meat clean while it cools.
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Post by: curlewkiller on March 09, 2016, 11:46:41 AM
1. Get meat as cool as possible as fast as possible.
2. Trim all fat and add back in tasty pork or beef fat if you prefer.
3. All hair needs to be removed from meat. I take hours removing all hair from carcass.
4. No sawing bones.
Easy really.
I take all trimmings and cook it for my dog. I have 10 gallon bags of meat and fat for my dog between my son and I.
Post by: Labs07 on March 11, 2016, 12:32:29 PM
Post by: DeerThug on March 11, 2016, 02:07:10 PM
As soon as you tag it skin it from the back bone down and get the meat off into a clean game bag. Get the game bags on ice or as cool as you can as soon as you can. I have been involved in the processing of a couple of hundred game animals and not a one has been gamey....
And yes gutless you do get the tenderloins and any of the innerds you care to eat. Just do that last to keep the nastyness off of the meat.
Post by: Duckslayer89 on March 11, 2016, 10:17:34 PM
Post by: LeadNSheds on March 11, 2016, 11:35:45 PM
I also don't gut any of my animals unless they die extremely close to the road which hardly ever happens. Quarter them out guts in. Another thing is cooking the meat, don't over cook. That is huge part. Some of the best meat I've ever had was a whitetail buck rutted out. YoU never know I guess
:yeah: