Post by: Stein on February 12, 2016, 08:36:30 PM
I qualify for the nonresident native tags and my elk tag went from $80 to $505.50. That has to be the record for the greatest percentage increase in one year.
I do get half off the regular nonresident price, but I have a hard time understanding how that is a bargain when I can get one in a neighboring state for less with pretty much as good otc odds for finding an animal.
It will now cost you just over a grand for the regular nonres combo.
Thanks to the legislatures of western states for defunding departments and making this a rich man's game.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 12, 2016, 08:53:45 PM
Post by: Stein on February 12, 2016, 09:00:42 PM
$851 elk
$597 deer
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 09:05:21 PM
Well, time to bid adieu to my birth state after seeing the price increases. Wow, they are sure proud of their animals these days.
I qualify for the nonresident native tags and my elk tag went from $80 to $505.50. That has to be the record for the greatest percentage increase in one year.
I do get half off the regular nonresident price, but I have a hard time understanding how that is a bargain when I can get one in a neighboring state for less with pretty much as good otc odds for finding an animal.
It will now cost you just over a grand for the regular nonres combo.
Thanks to the legislatures of western states for defunding departments and making this a rich man's game.
Just ruined my night. That bites!
The rationale for the Native Born Non-resident tag opportunity was to keep sons & daughters of Montana connected and from my experience it worked fabulously. Native sons of Montana who strayed, but stayed connected, frequently retired back home bringing their retirement income back with them. For most the reason they strayed, in the first place, was chasing an income they could retire on.
Given the opportunity to make a really good living in various fields, that Montana does not have a broad based economy to support... you do the math on that one.
This kind of false economy, just doesn't resonate with those who are not as connected to the sport as we are. Washington doubled our West Side Three-day pheasant license to north of $40 and I had to make a FOIA request to get the numbers and they are taking in less total income from three-day licenses and not increasing Full Season License sales at all... and I, who would MUCH PREFER to hunt alone, but take people who have never been IF I can talk them into it now have an almost impossible time talking someone into it. Whereas I used to always get four of five takers per year. Many of which bought a dog and are now east side hunters as well.
Montana is going to cut the number of "casual" hunters drastically and the increased cost/participant makes the total revenue a "wash." What will remain are the serious hunters and that also leaves out restaurant bills they pick up, and such. Hey, ranchers seldom eat out and if you live in small town Mont eating out just doesn't fit into the family budget. Comprehendre" bureaucrats? I doubt it. You have to have living relatives who are still residing in Mont and you must hunt WITH THEM. Those are the rules, you must be accompanied BY THEM.
When in Mont, I never spend on lodging (if not close to a relative, there are friends who are offended if you and your entourage does not bunk with them), but I do treat my hosts as extravagantly as they choose to a few dinners out and make impulse purchases as well. Who doesn't when on vacation? By God I bet every town that is big enough to have a Chamber of Commerce is just beside themselves. And the restaurateurs and gas stations who are located in smaller towns are going nuts over this.
Of course those who have relatives who are ideally situated will still come, but if they are ideally situated the Native Born Non-res were small potatoes anyway. This is just going to kick the crud outa' the small town that "casual" hunter relatives came back to year after year to take maybe, if they are lucky, a raghorn bull and a couple deer around. And, let's get one thing clear, most all of the tags were sold to Native Borns who paid $165 and shot a couple whitetails out of a wheat field that their relatives farm or a friend of their relatives farm.
By far, the biggest loss is going to be the loss of an understanding of "how the other half lives." When you draw city dwellers back, they actually get an appreciation for just how tough a Montana life is. And when Federal laws are being made that affect farmers and ranchers and those who support such they have an INFORMED opinion.
My dad just bought property in the Flathead Valley and I was looking forward to spending more time in Montana. The heck of it is, he is pushing 90 and is selling his place in Billings, which I can understand, but he is also liquidating his real estate assets in AZ too and will not be wintering there in the future. I always looked forward to spending ten days in AZ about this time of year.
Generally speaking we have all the meat we need from right here, but I have two cousins who ranch on the other side, one right smack against The Bob out of Augusta, surrounded by the Sun River Ranch and the Broken O, and I just like to accompany friends who are Mont residents on those properties.
Post by: Stein on February 12, 2016, 09:09:11 PM
They get fewer hunters for the same amount of revenue - unless you own the motel, gas station or bar. What percentage of income do you think the Spa Hot springs Motel or Town Pump in White Sulphur bring in during hunting season? Conservatively, I put $1k into that town a year and I do it pretty cheap.
The people that are giving it up are the diy guys like me, if you are shelling out $$$$$ for a guided hunt, what is another couple hundred? At some point, the people that make a living from hunters will step up and say something.
Post by: syoungs on February 12, 2016, 09:20:35 PM
Common sense officially dead now or?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 12, 2016, 09:27:50 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 12, 2016, 09:40:00 PM
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 09:40:18 PM
Yeah, pretty much my thoughts. It was an easy way to get a guaranteed visit to my brother, dad and college.
They get fewer hunters for the same amount of revenue - unless you own the motel, gas station or bar. What percentage of income do you think the Spa Hot springs Motel or Town Pump in White Sulphur bring in during hunting season? Conservatively, I put $1k into that town a year and I do it pretty cheap.
The people that are giving it up are the diy guys like me, if you are shelling out $$$$$ for a guided hunt, what is another couple hundred? At some point, the people that make a living from hunters will step up and say something.
If you have relatives in White Sulfer you can hunt elk out of Monarch and Neihardt and whitetail deer on any of the hoot colonies and spend like a drunken sailor every evening in White Sulfer or on food at the bar in Monarch or Neihardt or Roy. It's a good time and you may not get an elk, but then again most Native Born Non-res sons and daughters don't care. They got a fork buck and a doe and a speed goat off the hoot colony and they can not wait to come back. And, if your wife does not hunt, like mine, she is doing some shopping in town with the neighbors wife, who also does not hunt and learning all about how hard the city-dwellers make it from someone other than her husband, who she tunes out whenever he tries to expand her horizons far enough to be able to see that there are people who are just trying their best to raise a family in rural Mont without any appreciable interference from government.
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 09:42:15 PM
Its been a grand for combo in idaho or montana give or take a few $ for awhile. Price of memories just be happy you can buy em unlike other areas that are draw only - MT used to be less but you could only draw every other year .. X
For Native Born Non-residents who still had a relative that was close, it was south of two-bucks.
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 09:47:33 PM
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Were you born in Montana, but now live out-of-state and have an immediate family member who is a resident? If so, these Nonresident Montana Native Hunting licenses may be available to you at substantially reduced prices. Combination license includes a conservation, state lands, and general deer and/or elk license and authorizes fishing and hunting of upland game birds, excluding turkey.
Nonresident Native Big Game Combination - $505.50
Nonresident Native Deer Combination - $303.50
Nonresident Native Upland Game Bird - $55
Nonresident Native Season Fishing - $43
Applications
View a list of all current applications.
Qualifications
To qualify you must provide ALL of the following (at a minumum, see application for details):
A birth certificate verifying your birth in Montana, or documentation that you were born to parents who were residents of Montana at the time of birth;
and proof of possessing a previous Montana resident hunting or fishing license, or proof of passage of Montana’s hunter education course;
and proof that you are a nonresident relative of a Montana resident who is your natural or adoptive sibling, child or parent.
****************
It is still cheap. This should not be the deal breaker I thought it was. $505 isn't a grand, and it is still the greatest bargain going. If this is current.
South of $25/pay check/hunter is likely a yearly vacation/hunt a family can budget for. If you have family that hunts you probably have "free guide service," not a guide that will put you on a trophy animal, but that was NEVER the intention of the program in the first place.
My cousin has pack horses and we can be in The Bob in an hour from his spread, but I have never taken him up on that. Maybe some day, but what I enjoy immensely is to be with long time family friends from Helena who want to go up to another cousin's ranch and shoot a couple white tails. It is just a relaxing get away with my old friends for me and $303 on top of gas isn't a big deal if I can shoot a couple white tails and help them fill their freezer. Not that there are not monster white tails, but this all about being with friends who hunt for meat to me.
If I do get serious about taking a big bull, that kid grew up in The Bob and even a grand for a serious hunt is peanuts.
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 10:16:12 PM
Hmmmm. We'll a deer tag has been $584ish for a while now :dunno:
It looks like it is the Native Born Non-res that is being increased and make absolutely no mistake about it - they are not the guy that is just fine spending ~$six-bucks on a deer tag. They just want to come back to enjoy the company and hospitality of relatives and take a deer or two home. If you are like me, thedeer I will take home is in the form of sausage the hoots have made from it. Most hoot colonies offer butchering.
Post by: bearpaw on February 12, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Post by: M_ray on February 12, 2016, 10:34:52 PM
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 10:36:00 PM
If you just want a deer for sausage you can get a doe tag for $80.
Exactly, and if you are in Mont a doe is a gimme. If you have relatives you can hunt elk with and are almost guaranteed coming home with two deer, $500 is not anything to get worked up over.
Post by: bearpaw on February 12, 2016, 10:39:00 PM
I thought the big game combo was like 970 last year so that's only a 31$ increase :dunno:
They only made slight increases this year on the NR fees, except for the specific NR native licenses he is referring to.
Post by: bearpaw on February 12, 2016, 10:40:53 PM
Post by: M_ray on February 12, 2016, 10:41:44 PM
I thought the big game combo was like 970 last year so that's only a 31$ increase :dunno:
They only made slight increases this year on the NR fees, except for the specific NR native licenses he is referring to.
Oh gotchya ... I saw that after posting :tup:
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 10:48:34 PM
I thought the big game combo was like 970 last year so that's only a 31$ increase :dunno:
It is the Native Born Non-res that has the big increase. If you are trophy hunting - so what? If you have relatives ideally situated, or have access - GTHOH, being able to spend a week in country that you have a good chance take a trophy elk for $500. My God, the State of Mont has an investment and you should feel honored that the State of Montana recognizes that you have a "connection" even though none of your tax dollars are currently supporting that opportunity.
Even if you are just spending time "on the ranch" and taking some meat home it still "pencils out." I refer to the Hoots, by that I mean the Hutterite colonies, and even if your relatives are living in sage brush country and that deer is not fit fare for man or beast, if you show me a hoot colony that cannot turn that deer into the best sausage you have ever eaten, I will kiss your posterior and they do it for peanuts.
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 11:13:01 PM
I thought the big game combo was like 970 last year so that's only a 31$ increase :dunno:
They only made slight increases this year on the NR fees, except for the specific NR native licenses he is referring to.
The NBNR tag that has not been ratcheted up is seeing a big increase. BUT IMHO, it is about where it should be. We Native Born Non-residents should pay for the opportunity that Montana provides while still recognizing that keeping us "in touch" with our relatives is worth the serious discount we will still enjoy is in the State's best interest. Native non-residents "returning home" with their retirement income is part of what it will take to offset the effect of out-migration combined with interlopers moving in and forever changing Montana into something nobody alive today recognizes. I would submit for consideration of those who have never lived in Mont, but enjoy Montana that this discount that was put in place to keep Native Born Montanan's connected is not something to envy. It is also in your best interest. Nobody is less in favor of a paradigm shift in the political makeup of Montana that Native Born Montanan's are except long time residents and native born non-residents.
Post by: Smossy on February 12, 2016, 11:26:48 PM
Post by: JDHasty on February 12, 2016, 11:37:14 PM
The law isn't enforced in Augusta and in the summer people just ignore it. It would not be the Augusta Rodeo or the Bucking Horse Sale in Miles City if it were "politically correct" and cowboys with bowed legs and fingers twisted from being broken no longer felt welcome to get arrested for fighting instead of just enjoying a cool beer.
The fam used to expect that someone would need to be bailed out for being drunk off our Irish butt and fighting, we are Irish ranching stock, but not for just walking down the street with a beer. I'm, funny that way in that I want to preserve that I guess. And IMHO, the best way to preserve that is to keep Montanan's who were born where school was shut down for the opening of hunting season and are predisposed to come back is to keep them coning back.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 13, 2016, 06:25:34 AM
Idaho will likely go up in price next year. I just had a meeting with IDFG a couple days ago and they are looking for an increase next year, but sounds like most likely only resident fees.I wish these game agencies would look at Colorado ' s model and follow it in regards to non resident hunters. We are customers who dump millions into agencies and state economies. So treat us as such. Idaho hasn't come close to selling out their tags since the last big price hike. Hmmmmmm..........
I'll continue to play the game until the point that I either have to sell one of my kids or get a second job to fund my tags, but it is frustrating :bash:
Post by: hunterofelk on February 13, 2016, 07:50:50 AM
Post by: jeffitz on February 13, 2016, 08:12:58 AM
Post by: deerslyr on February 13, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
Post by: Stein on February 13, 2016, 04:23:58 PM
I never understood the come home to hunt tag. Does any other state do this? I don't get discounted tags when I go home to hunt in WA. Wouldn't expect to either, I'm not a resident and don't pay taxes there. Part of the reason why I live in MT. Montana's economy is just fine, White Sulphur is doing great with these shoulder seasons going on so I'm sure they wont miss your money. If you want cheap elk tags and to dump a bunch of money into small towns go to CO. You can chose between 4 different week long or less seasons and shoot rag horns with thousands of other non residents :twocents:
That's pretty much what I plan to do. Some day, when others follow, what do you think is going to happen to the price of your tag?
The other part of why I won't hunt there again is the attitude with the residents. Although not totally different than some states, they really treat nonresident hunters like garbage despite the fact that we pay the absolute lion's share of money to F&G. The truth is that without nonresident revenue, F&G would be bankrupt within the week.
I would also guess the business owners in hunting towns don't share the "go to Colorado" attitude.
I hunted Wyoming last year and was amazed at the difference in attitude, it certainly got me thinking differently.
Post by: deerslyr on February 13, 2016, 05:21:43 PM
Wyo is harder to draw (can't even draw a general tag with 0 points), moderate cost of tag, nr's cant hunt wilderness, But I'd rank it pretty high as far as success and trophy potential goes.
CO has good tag prices, lots of OTC tags, extremely short seasons that you can chose from, great success rates and piss poor trophy potential.
Montana has incredibly long general seasons that good for nearly the entire state, good success rates, incredible trophy potential for OTC type hunts, and a very expensive NR tag.
The biggest difference between CO and MT that should be noted is season length. The tag Im applying for in CO is 5 days long. 600+ bucks for a 5 day hunt. No sweat for me I know thats what I'm getting into.
The MT general tag is good for 11 WEEKS!! Thats right nearly three months of elk hunting. To me that would be worth less than double the cost of the CO tag, if I lived out of state. And some day I might just get transfered out of state and thats fine, ill be paying the NR fees.
Post by: idaho guy on February 23, 2016, 11:42:04 AM
I never understood the come home to hunt tag. Does any other state do this? I don't get discounted tags when I go home to hunt in WA. Wouldn't expect to either, I'm not a resident and don't pay taxes there. Part of the reason why I live in MT. Montana's economy is just fine, White Sulphur is doing great with these shoulder seasons going on so I'm sure they wont miss your money. If you want cheap elk tags and to dump a bunch of money into small towns go to CO. You can chose between 4 different week long or less seasons and shoot rag horns with thousands of other non residents :twocents:
***************
We ususally go back to Montana every year to hunt with family on a cousins ranch.It is not a trophy hunt but a great hunt with family. The non-res native tag is designed not to price familys out of these types of hunts with the insane price increases we are seeing with the trophy hunting mentality going on right now. I think it was a great idea but looks like they might price some people out anyways.
Post by: deerslyr on February 23, 2016, 12:03:39 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on February 23, 2016, 02:45:23 PM
Get your wife a second job ...Idaho will likely go up in price next year. I just had a meeting with IDFG a couple days ago and they are looking for an increase next year, but sounds like most likely only resident fees.I wish these game agencies would look at Colorado ' s model and follow it in regards to non resident hunters. We are customers who dump millions into agencies and state economies. So treat us as such. Idaho hasn't come close to selling out their tags since the last big price hike. Hmmmmmm..........
I'll continue to play the game until the point that I either have to sell one of my kids or get a second job to fund my tags, but it is frustrating :bash:
Post by: JDHasty on February 23, 2016, 04:13:49 PM
I never understood the come home to hunt tag. Does any other state do this? I don't get discounted tags when I go home to hunt in WA. Wouldn't expect to either, I'm not a resident and don't pay taxes there. Part of the reason why I live in MT. Montana's economy is just fine, White Sulphur is doing great with these shoulder seasons going on so I'm sure they wont miss your money. If you want cheap elk tags and to dump a bunch of money into small towns go to CO. You can chose between 4 different week long or less seasons and shoot rag horns with thousands of other non residents :twocents:
***************
We usually go back to Montana every year to hunt with family on a cousins ranch.It is not a trophy hunt but a great hunt with family. The non-res native tag is designed not to price familys out of these types of hunts with the insane price increases we are seeing with the trophy hunting mentality going on right now. I think it was a great idea but looks like they might price some people out anyways.
Exactly
Post by: deerslyr on February 25, 2016, 10:09:30 AM
Sounds like you guys got it easy to me :twocents:
Post by: JDHasty on February 25, 2016, 10:53:34 AM
Just looked up what its going to cost me to hunt WA this year and apply for a quality permit, over 600 bucks, and if I dont draw my tag is good for a week of spike elk hunting :o
Sounds like you guys got it easy to me :twocents:
It has been something like $170 for Elk, 2 Deer, Speed Goat & I think Bear and Lion were thrown in. The price has been stable for about two decades. A 5% per year increase would have made it about $450 today. So I'm with you, it isn't all that bad.
Post by: idaho guy on February 25, 2016, 11:02:12 AM
Just looked up what its going to cost me to hunt WA this year and apply for a quality permit, over 600 bucks, and if I dont draw my tag is good for a week of spike elk hunting :o
Sounds like you guys got it easy to me :twocents:
Sounds like you are taking it in the shorts! I am not complaining about the native non res deal just thought it was a good idea and wish they would have kept the price down.
Post by: Bwana Bob on February 26, 2016, 08:04:40 AM