Post by: jasnt on April 18, 2016, 05:57:17 AM
I've been told if you have a big enough trap it may work. I would love to hear any ideas or suggestions any of you may have.
Sofar I'm thinking 4't X 4'w X 6'L. Conibar trigger or power trigger. Will be power doors either swinging or gillateen
Also thinking live bait box
Post by: ouchfoss on April 18, 2016, 07:15:15 AM
One idea that I think will also up the odds would be to use double door traps and place them in well used tunnels/trails in brushy areas and set them up as a blind set. Then just add some bait in the area and at some point, a yote will make a mistake and go in. Scent is obviously a main factor too. Probably good to get your cages built and painted long before season that way most of the human scent has went away. :twocents:
Post by: Bigshooter on April 18, 2016, 07:20:48 AM
Post by: Machias on April 18, 2016, 12:02:26 PM
Post by: jasnt on April 18, 2016, 12:53:46 PM
As for cougar I'm sure that's more than possible. But as I stated this will be more for problem coyotes that are causing troubles at or near people's homes. In my area as many of you know cougar are a major problem and numbers are high. I've delt with more than a few, I'm sure a release would be more than exciting. I respect the cougar but I do not fear them. Almost every cat I ever ran across wanted nothing more than to get away. Speedy and safe release will be in the design
Post by: huntingfool7 on April 18, 2016, 01:43:16 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on April 18, 2016, 02:53:08 PM
I've been doing research on this for a long time. Most info I run across just says it won't happen. No one talks about what they tried or imo even used a cage large enough except the California study which had a 4'x4'x8' trap. They used mostly carcasses and lure. I plan to use live bait in a well protected cage attached in side. Using a small rooster or some quail my sister raises. Isn't think it's going to be for wilderness coyotes. But the coyotes that are more than happy to break in to our chicken coops I think would have no problem going in as they seem more than willing to go right the coop by any means possible.
As for cougar I'm sure that's more than possible. But as I stated this will be more for problem coyotes that are causing troubles at or near people's homes. In my area as many of you know cougar are a major problem and numbers are high. I've delt with more than a few, I'm sure a release would be more than exciting. I respect the cougar but I do not fear them. Almost every cat I ever ran across wanted nothing more than to get away. Speedy and safe release will be in the design
Good luck too you. You're going to need it.
Post by: JakeLand on April 18, 2016, 06:03:53 PM
Hmmmm I might try this :dunno:
Post by: jasnt on April 19, 2016, 05:55:40 AM
Huntingfool7 that video has my gears turning!
Thanks for the input guys. This will be a fun project. I look forward to the challenge
I'll update here as it progresses
Post by: Humptulips on April 19, 2016, 09:24:33 PM
I would think something completely different is the direction I would take. Think about this idea. A cage trap that the coyote does not have to enter to get caught in.
Post by: jasnt on April 19, 2016, 10:08:07 PM
I thnk te idea if building a large cage is a dead end road that has been trod before. Just the size of the cage makes it a non-starter in my book.now ya got me thinking :tup:
I would think something completely different is the direction I would take. Think about this idea. A cage trap that the coyote does not have to enter to get caught in.
Post by: Humptulips on April 20, 2016, 06:30:09 PM
I thnk te idea if building a large cage is a dead end road that has been trod before. Just the size of the cage makes it a non-starter in my book.now ya got me thinking :tup:
I would think something completely different is the direction I would take. Think about this idea. A cage trap that the coyote does not have to enter to get caught in.
I have fiddled with the idea but have not yet come up with something I like. What I did was along the lines of a wide, tall but shallow trap with a door that laid down on the ground in the front. The idea being you would cover the door and springs on the door would boost the coyote into the trap. Somewhat similar in fashion to a suitcase beaver trap but with some crucial differences.
Something for you to think about anyway.
Post by: Norman89 on April 25, 2016, 12:40:30 PM
Post by: JakeLand on April 25, 2016, 01:13:49 PM
Post by: jasnt on April 25, 2016, 04:52:44 PM
Post by: Machias on April 25, 2016, 05:14:49 PM
Post by: huntingfool7 on April 25, 2016, 05:23:04 PM
Coyotes have pretty fast reflexes. I'm thinking a carousel type design similar to the one on the video but smaller and lower to the ground. Bout 30' off the ground. Still playing with ideas before I start cuttingCould use a round bale feeder for the frame.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/galvanized-economic-bale-feeder?cm_vc=-10005
Post by: kirkdekalb on May 04, 2016, 07:54:51 AM
Quote
Before you spend your money and time, do some research on a fairly extensive study done in California. They did trap some yotes, the vast majority were young of the year just weaned. It was some ungodly amount of time the traps set to catch ratio. Thousands of hours per catch.
All the studies I have seen are using out dated equipment. None of the latest developed. I know of a study that is suppose to take place soon. They have some newly designed equipment but not the latest. Even with all of the latest equipment the ability of the trapper with any equipment is crucial.
Just because you haven,t seen it, doesn,t mean it hasn,t been developed.
Post by: Machias on May 04, 2016, 10:01:15 AM
Post by: kirkdekalb on May 04, 2016, 10:20:38 AM
Problems I have seen are mainly limited funding and lack of knowledge as to what has been developed and what can be developed. Most keep going back to original designs because that is all that they are familiar with. I will post some of my findings base on posts on this thread. Maybe someone will get further with it than I did.
Post by: Machias on May 04, 2016, 10:37:41 AM
Post by: kirkdekalb on May 04, 2016, 10:44:43 AM
Quote
Coyotes have pretty fast reflexes. I'm thinking a carousel type design similar to the one on the video but smaller and lower to the ground. Bout 30' off the ground. Still playing with ideas before I start cutting
I made a drop down design about 6 years ago. I found it to be very bulky and almost impractical because of weight. At the time I did not have the technology I now have patents on, but even then this design seemed too impractical. One of my concerns was how dangerous it could be if not fired at the right time. Another concern was the reluctance some animals have to inter an over hang or just entering the trap. Because the animal could enter from any direction position upon firing was critical if you wanted to limit the size of the trap. I used a hanging four way trigger. The problem with a hanging trigger in positioning for me has been trying not to get any scent on the trigger you were not wanting him to notice. You can place in center but for the trap to fall fast enough made it dangerous. Some one probably has a more practical design than what I experimented with.
Bruce described a very open design. I could never come up with anything like it with out it being almost dangerous. Maybe someone will figure it out.
Post by: kirkdekalb on May 04, 2016, 10:53:29 AM
Quote
I've been told if you have a big enough trap it may work. I would love to hear any ideas or suggestions any of you may have.
Sofar I'm thinking 4't X 4'w X 6'L. Conibar trigger or power trigger. Will be power doors either swinging or gillateen
Chris Sims has caught more than two coyotes at a time in the large cage he uses, but it is bigger than you described. It was a gravity doored trap.
Post by: Humptulips on May 04, 2016, 12:30:11 PM
I have an idea but it is just an idea. We all know there is a lot of room between that and a working trap that actually does what you want.
One thing for sure trappers have and will burn a lot of brain cells on the problem.
Post by: jasnt on May 04, 2016, 06:20:12 PM
Post by: Machias on May 04, 2016, 08:21:35 PM
Post by: jasnt on May 04, 2016, 10:09:53 PM
Post by: jasnt on June 02, 2016, 10:23:34 AM
Check out the coyote video lower right
Post by: Machias on June 02, 2016, 11:31:43 AM
Post by: KFhunter on June 17, 2016, 05:04:48 PM
Post by: jasnt on June 20, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
Post by: Kit Carson on June 20, 2016, 10:37:01 PM
Post by: jasnt on June 21, 2016, 05:52:45 AM
Post by: kirkdekalb on June 21, 2016, 02:53:41 PM
Quote
Think about this idea. A cage trap that the coyote does not have to enter to get caught in.
Or at least he thinks he has not entered.
Post by: bearpaw on June 21, 2016, 03:37:53 PM
http://trappintales.com/AT/product/32-live-bait-trap/?v=400b9db48e62
That trap is big enough I see how it might work at times for coyotes when covered over like a culvert. The thing about coyotes, they are very used to going in culverts looking for prey!
Instead of making an awkwardly huge culvert trap, how about making a mechanisn to put on the entrance of existing culverts. Would there be any law preventing that, if so, how about on private property?
Attach a door on each side of the culvert, run a wire through the culvert connected to a mechanism on each door with bait or trigger attached to the center of the wire in the middle of the culvert. :dunno:
Post by: Kit Carson on June 21, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
Post by: bearpaw on June 21, 2016, 03:47:37 PM
Post by: JJB11B on June 21, 2016, 03:49:54 PM
If a person did that you will probably need to build an extendable pole to push the wire through and to recover coyotes after you shoot them. A trap like that would catch all kinds of fur! Some that you may not want! :chuckle:They could put those in in the suburbs for tweakers, unfortunately all that fur has mange and is undesireable
Post by: bearpaw on June 21, 2016, 03:55:14 PM
Post by: Special T on June 21, 2016, 04:25:46 PM
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Special T on June 21, 2016, 04:26:46 PM
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: kirkdekalb on July 11, 2016, 04:59:26 PM
Quote
Think about this idea. A cage trap that the coyote does not have to enter to get caught in.
Or at least he thinks he has not entered
That is the key.
Post by: jasnt on July 11, 2016, 07:36:21 PM
QuoteThink about this idea. A cage trap that the coyote does not have to enter to get caught in.
Only trouble is making it safe
Or at least he thinks he has not entered
That is the key.
Post by: kirkdekalb on July 13, 2016, 03:02:36 PM
The second is very good also, made about 5 years ago. Caught many animals in it this last season. Both are bobcat and fox catching machines, but not yet the best for coyote. Will catch coyote but still room for improvement. Loaned the trap to a friend to catch animals eating their chickens for 3 weeks. They kept it for 4 months. Had to hound them to get the trap back.
The best trap for coyote needs to be more open appearing than these.
Post by: kirkdekalb on July 13, 2016, 03:31:37 PM
Post by: winslow on July 21, 2016, 02:53:34 PM
:twocents:
Post by: jasnt on July 21, 2016, 06:31:28 PM
Post by: winslow on July 21, 2016, 06:53:32 PM
That's the reason I want to do it. So many have said it can't be done. I'm calling 🐂💩 And doing it if is the last thing I doI know what you mean. I used to do the same thing (with almost everything, including coyote traps), but I ran out of time and patience for failure!
I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope you crack the code.
Winslow
Post by: jasnt on July 21, 2016, 07:36:36 PM
👍🏻. No one will if we all give upThat's the reason I want to do it. So many have said it can't be done. I'm calling 🐂💩 And doing it if is the last thing I doI know what you mean. I used to do the same thing (with almost everything, including coyote traps), but I ran out of time and patience for failure!
I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope you crack the code.
Winslow
Post by: kirkdekalb on July 21, 2016, 08:00:28 PM
Time will tell.
Post by: jasnt on July 21, 2016, 08:10:48 PM
Post by: kirkdekalb on July 22, 2016, 06:02:32 AM
Post by: winslow on July 22, 2016, 08:45:32 AM
Check this out from Idaho, for example - a state constitutional amendment that protects our interests-
"The rights to hunt, fish and trap, including by the use of traditional methods,
are a valued part of the heritage of the State of Idaho and shall forever be
preserved for the people and managed through the laws, rules and
proclamations that preserve the future of hunting, fishing and trapping. Public
hunting, fishing and trapping of wildlife shall be a preferred means of
managing wildlife. The rights set forth herein do not create a right to trespass
on private property, shall not affect rights to divert, appropriate and use water,
or establish any minimum amount of water in any water body, shall not lead to
a diminution of other private rights, and shall not prevent the suspension or
revocation, pursuant to statute enacted by the Legislature, of an individual's
hunting, fishing or trapping license.
There are other states, too - https://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/StateRighttoHunFish.pdf (https://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/StateRighttoHunFish.pdf)
I wholly support any and all experimentation, invention, innovation, and the enjoyment that we derive from all that, but cage traps, too, will be illegal here soon enough, whether it's one species at a time (expect bobcats to be the first to go) or the activity of trapping in general. Without legislative protection, we will become outlaws.
Post by: jasnt on July 22, 2016, 12:55:01 PM
Post by: Humptulips on July 22, 2016, 03:07:47 PM
However this thread is about building a WA legal cage trap that can and will catch a coyote. I think that has value on a number of different levels.
First of all even in places where you could legally set foot traps and snares there are places where it would not be advisable. I hear from a lot of people in urban settings with coyote problems and there is no easy answer for them.
If someone invented a cage trap that would work you can bet your bottom dollar their would be applications for it. We can all use another tool in the box
Second there is the fur. Coyotes has been the only furbearer the market has shown interest in lately and we here in WA have been froze out of the market because of what we are allowed to use. Should the law be changed? Sure, but if that is not in the cards it would be really nice to have that coyote caging machine.
Third is just the challenge of coming up with a design. Not everybody is in to that but it is like the MT Everest of trap design.
Post by: jasnt on July 22, 2016, 03:24:27 PM
It is great to support pro-sportsmen organizations and in this case specifically trapping organizations.👍🏻
However this thread is about building a WA legal cage trap that can and will catch a coyote. I think that has value on a number of different levels.
First of all even in places where you could legally set foot traps and snares there are places where it would not be advisable. I hear from a lot of people in urban settings with coyote problems and there is no easy answer for them.
If someone invented a cage trap that would work you can bet your bottom dollar their would be applications for it. We can all use another tool in the box
Second there is the fur. Coyotes has been the only furbearer the market has shown interest in lately and we here in WA have been froze out of the market because of what we are allowed to use. Should the law be changed? Sure, but if that is not in the cards it would be really nice to have that coyote caging machine.
Third is just the challenge of coming up with a design. Not everybody is in to that but it is like the MT Everest of trap design.
Post by: kirkdekalb on July 22, 2016, 05:25:23 PM
Just the size is a very limiting factor, even if it is designed to not be so large.
I don,t think meeting the state requirements would be as much as a concern as the cost.
Post by: winslow on July 30, 2016, 03:20:42 PM
Found a few threads around the web that pointed to the same idea:
from https://www.qdma.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-54472.html (https://www.qdma.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-54472.html)
Quote
We used to have good success trapping them in 8-10" PVC pipe.
At the time we were getting $75/live dog from a pen that was using them to train coyote hounds. We would bury 5-6' long sections of pipe at 30-45 degree angle & throw a live chicken or rabbit down in there. The live bait is too much temptation & a coyote can't back out of the pipe once he's down in there.
criggster
from: http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1110406 (http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1110406)
Quote
we have a few amish guys that have been trapping coyotes with 12in diameter pvc pipe or similiar... as long as the insides is smooth.. length im not sure, id say 10-14ft.
they throw raw chicken meat in the bottom of the pipe(the end of it is capped ofcourse) and they put it on the steep slope of a bank they know the coyotes are running and stake it down.
when the coyote goes down the pipe to snatch up the chicken he cant pull himself back out.... too slick..
ive never tried it yet but i cant see why it wouldnt work. theres not enough room for them to turn around and they cant pull back out bc there is no traction.
from: http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/450661/coyote-war-its-on/20 (http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/450661/coyote-war-its-on/20)
Quote
I have seen a large Pvc pipe used to trap yotes 10-15 ' long one end on a hill the bottom end buried in the dirt yote slides down and cannot get out because of the slick PVC and the claws on the paws the pipe was 18-24" in diameter . bait was a decomposed chicken
Thought this might be an interesting tangent to consider, though I saw no pics of coyotes caught in such a trap. It seems an easy set might be to cap the pipe on one end and secure it on an appropriately sloped hillside, capped end downhill and bait inside with some holes drilled to release scent.
Post by: jasnt on July 30, 2016, 05:10:41 PM