Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 19, 2016, 10:42:49 AM
She currently gets around 30 MPG in her car and puts about 20k on a year. At todays prices of 2.15 per gallon I'm saving 1500 a year in fuel alone.
Its pretty exciting that a electric car, that looks great, is fast, get EPA estimated 215 mile range, and looks like a luxury car are available for $35,000. I cant see why I would spend the same amount on a gas vehicle just so I can fill up the tank all the time. Plus there are chargers in Ritzville and Ellensburg so we can take it to the West Side and not worry about finding a place to charge. The $7500 tax credit is also appealing!
https://www.teslamotors.com/model3
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 19, 2016, 10:50:34 AM
The car looks pretty sharp compared to previous electrics, and electrics are known for better torque so should be fun.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on April 19, 2016, 10:53:46 AM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 19, 2016, 11:05:15 AM
However, 220 v will charge faster than 110. They also have super charges placed in towns along the interstates that will charge the car in 30 min to give you a 110 miles range, or full charge in 70 or so.
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2016, 11:07:29 AM
I see them quite often, sharp looking cars just don't think I could pay $35000 for one though. Do you gave to get a special plug wired into your house to charge it?You don't see a Model 3 ever. You're seeing the Model S that have been out for a couple years now. They're ~$80-100k depending on equipment. The model 3 is the new one coming out late 2017. They took 200k+ $1k pre-sale deposits on this car before it was even built.
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2016, 11:13:12 AM
We only have one, very un-popular fully electric vehicle. We have a few plug in hybrids though that have been very popular. I like the idea of the plug in hybrid a lot more than full EV. You're not limited by the range and you don't have to sit at a rest stop for 45 minutes while your vehicle charges with a plug in hybrid. I have a customer who had 7k miles on his car the last time I saw it a few months ago. He is still running off of the same original tank of gas. He plugs in at home and plugs in at work. I think he's about 10 mile commute. He literally never uses gas, yet if he wants to drive it to Spokane or wherever, he doesn't have to worry about EV range.
Post by: jstone on April 19, 2016, 11:21:38 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on April 19, 2016, 11:22:16 AM
I see them quite often, sharp looking cars just don't think I could pay $35000 for one though. Do you gave to get a special plug wired into your house to charge it?You don't see a Model 3 ever. You're seeing the Model S that have been out for a couple years now. They're ~$80-100k depending on equipment. The model 3 is the new one coming out late 2017. They took 200k+ $1k pre-sale deposits on this car before it was even built.
Yea those ones. Newhalem on HWY 20 has plugs for cars now on the left side of the Hwy as you go east into town. :tup:
Post by: Mfowl on April 19, 2016, 11:34:30 AM
Post by: Special T on April 19, 2016, 11:50:00 AM
Id be more inclined to buy an Elio commuter car if they get them in production. Had a chance to sit in one in portland.
Post by: Curly on April 19, 2016, 12:02:11 PM
:)
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2016, 12:07:03 PM
What is the battery life span on these? I've heard one knock on electrics is that the batteries have to be replaced every 3-5yrs at a cost of several thousand dollars. Anybody dealt with this or have any first hand experience?
We've been working with hybrid vehicles for 10+ years and have never replaced one.
That's not entirely accurate. We did replace one in an electric focus but that car was a month and a half old. All hybrid battery/EV components have a 10 year/100k mile warranty through Ford. It's not a Tesla, but I assume the warranty is similar or the same.
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2016, 12:08:38 PM
Quote
Infinite Mile Warranty
Elon Musk, CEO• August 15, 2014
The Tesla Model S drive unit warranty has been increased to match that of the battery pack. That means the 85 kWh Model S, our most popular model by far, now has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on both the battery pack and drive unit. There is also no limit on the number of owners during the warranty period.
Moreover, the warranty extension will apply retroactively to all Model S vehicles ever produced. In hindsight, this should have been our policy from the beginning of the Model S program. If we truly believe that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines, with far fewer moving parts and no oily residue or combustion byproducts to gum up the works, then our warranty policy should reflect that.
Quote
Your Tesla vehicle is protected by a 4 year, 50,000 miles (whichever comes first) new vehicle limited warranty and 8 year, unlimited mile battery and drive unit warranty. Tesla recommends an Annual Service Inspection every year or 12,500 miles to maintain your vehicle to top performance standards. Advance payment of Annual Service Inspections via a Service Plan is the most economical means of maintaining your Model S. Service Plans may be purchased by visiting a local Service Center within the first 60 days after delivery of a new or qualified Pre-Owned Vehicle.
https://www.teslamotors.com/support/service-plans
Post by: CP on April 19, 2016, 12:11:48 PM
An electric SUV might be just the ticket for road hunting. Much cheaper on the wallet with no gas to buy and the deer and elk won't hear you coming as soon as they would if you had a gas motor. :tup: The Tesla SUV doesn't look very off road capable..........might need a lift kit added. :twocents:
:)
I think that they would spook the game. Ever notice that the deer spook when you stop and shut the engine off. The engine noise is very reassuring to them. Real road hunters never shutoff the engine. Those really advanced in the road hunting arts can roll out the passenger side door without slowing down.
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 19, 2016, 12:11:58 PM
What is the battery life span on these? I've heard one knock on electrics is that the batteries have to be replaced every 3-5yrs at a cost of several thousand dollars. Anybody dealt with this or have any first hand experience?
That is a good question. I heard that as well when they started coming out, I believe it was the Prius that I read had a few issues in the first model, but that was prior to Tesla. I don't remember though, and what car doesn't have engine problems pop up when new models come out. I.E. my Ecoboost lol! Tesla is producing their own batteries and has put a lot of R&D into the process and the quality and longevity have been improved. Their plant is almost as big as the Boeing plant I guess.
Id say if you are commuting around town 90% of the time and can charge every night in your garage, id say its a pretty good deal. Obviously it is not the end all solution. I wont be selling my truck since I don't like driving in a car period when heading over the pass, but most of our time spent driving is in town to work and back.
Post by: baker5150 on April 19, 2016, 12:34:13 PM
The big issues we see with EV's is the range people get versus the range they think they're supposed to get. The cold weather puts a dent in range, as does the hot weather assuming you're using A/C. Basically anything you use that uses electric will decrease your range. There are things like pre-conditioning you can do in the winter time that will help, but you'll still take a hit.
We only have one, very un-popular fully electric vehicle. We have a few plug in hybrids though that have been very popular. I like the idea of the plug in hybrid a lot more than full EV. You're not limited by the range and you don't have to sit at a rest stop for 45 minutes while your vehicle charges with a plug in hybrid. I have a customer who had 7k miles on his car the last time I saw it a few months ago. He is still running off of the same original tank of gas. He plugs in at home and plugs in at work. I think he's about 10 mile commute. He literally never uses gas, yet if he wants to drive it to Spokane or wherever, he doesn't have to worry about EV range.
Western Wa. is known for being a bad location for EV's.
Wiper usage and extended low light hour driving times coupled with traffic conditions cause really low ranges for battery life.
I worked with a guy who had a smart car type thing he drove to work, all electric 2 seater truck looking thing, he kept a honda generator in the bed for when he got stuck in traffic or needed a charge.
Post by: huntnphool on April 19, 2016, 12:35:51 PM
Post by: baker5150 on April 19, 2016, 12:36:04 PM
What is the battery life span on these? I've heard one knock on electrics is that the batteries have to be replaced every 3-5yrs at a cost of several thousand dollars. Anybody dealt with this or have any first hand experience?
We've been working with hybrid vehicles for 10+ years and have never replaced one.
That's not entirely accurate. We did replace one in an electric focus but that car was a month and a half old. All hybrid battery/EV components have a 10 year/100k mile warranty through Ford. It's not a Tesla, but I assume the warranty is similar or the same.
My SIL just had her battery go out in her Prius. 4K replacement cost for re-man. Ouch.
Post by: CP on April 19, 2016, 12:41:07 PM
How do they dispose of these batteries?
Lithium-ion batteries are recyclable - they can be dropped off at most recycling locations.
Post by: huntnphool on April 19, 2016, 12:41:41 PM
My guess is any potential cost savings is minimal.
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 19, 2016, 12:43:12 PM
How do they dispose of these batteries?
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program
Post by: huntnphool on April 19, 2016, 12:51:44 PM
How do they dispose of these batteries?
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program
That's cool. :tup:
So the questions then are how much total energy is used and emissions created to produce these batteries and then recycle them, is it less than producing gasoline and the resulting car emissions? :dunno:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 19, 2016, 12:55:22 PM
I'd guess only if from hydroelectric.How do they dispose of these batteries?
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program
That's cool. :tup:
So the questions then are how much total energy is used and emissions created to produce these batteries and then recycle them, is it less than producing gasoline and the resulting car emissions? :dunno:
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2016, 12:57:12 PM
I'd really like to see the 5 year cost figure comparison to a similar size/$ vehicle. Gas vs power bill, licensing, maintenance, insurance etc.
My guess is any potential cost savings is minimal.
There is a $7500 rebate right off the bat on the purchase of an EV. That puts that new Tesla sub $30k.
Post by: huntnphool on April 19, 2016, 01:02:02 PM
I'd really like to see the 5 year cost figure comparison to a similar size/$ vehicle. Gas vs power bill, licensing, maintenance, insurance etc.
My guess is any potential cost savings is minimal.
There is a $7500 rebate right off the bat on the purchase of an EV. That puts that new Tesla sub $30k.
Do you know what the licensing increase is for vehicle like this, since the owners use the roads but do not pay fuel taxes? :dunno:
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 19, 2016, 01:03:11 PM
How do they dispose of these batteries?
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program
That's cool. :tup:
So the questions then are how much total energy is used and emissions created to produce these batteries and then recycle them, is it less than producing gasoline and the resulting car emissions? :dunno:
https://www.teslamotors.com/gigafactory
I have read horror stories about the production of electric motors and batteries in Asia and the environmental side effects because there is no regulation for the disposal of by products. These guys seem to be taking matters into their own hands by building this facility. Of course its not supposed to be fully operational until 2017 so time will tell if their goals can be attained.
I cant imagine the capital required to take on this type of venture, which is my biggest concern with the future of the company. Will they go broke before these cars can hit the market and start generating a return?
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 19, 2016, 01:06:42 PM
I'd really like to see the 5 year cost figure comparison to a similar size/$ vehicle. Gas vs power bill, licensing, maintenance, insurance etc.
My guess is any potential cost savings is minimal.
There is a $7500 rebate right off the bat on the purchase of an EV. That puts that new Tesla sub $30k.
Do you know what the licensing increase is for vehicle like this, since the owners use the roads but do not pay fuel taxes? :dunno:
No idea. Ive only seen one Model S here in Coeur d Alene. I wonder if the state government has even considered this? I know here that sales tax and licensing fees do get used to support road construction as well as gas tax. Since the dealership is in Seattle, maybe someone from that side of the state can chime in if they have any experience? Id venture to guess there are a few more cars on the road over there.
I guarantee if these things take off and there are a lot more on the road, state and local governments will find a way to recoup the lost revenue :chuckle:
Post by: Special T on April 19, 2016, 01:13:01 PM
Post by: lamrith on April 19, 2016, 03:28:53 PM
The way to make one of these EV really way off is if you have Solar power/off the grid setup. Then you are not paying an electric bill to charge up with. Obviously other side of the mtns that is much more of an option than wet side..
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2016, 04:03:02 PM
Cost benifit would point to some kind of used gas commuter car. If you were comparing new car to new car it might be different.So drive a brand new, modern, comfy, reliable car or a little beater commuter car for the same price?
Good luck putting your deposit down and ever getting the chance to buy one. There were lines around the block at all the dealerships on the day they started taking pre-orders, and as mentioned, 200k+ deposits put out. THat is more units than most vehicles produced currently I believe?Orders have now hit 325k. Crazy talk... $14B in sales is what that will amount to.
The way to make one of these EV really way off is if you have Solar power/off the grid setup. Then you are not paying an electric bill to charge up with. Obviously other side of the mtns that is much more of an option than wet side..
Post by: Special T on April 19, 2016, 04:29:27 PM
I k ow lots of guys with older commuters that they put a few bucks I to so that they could justify having a new crewcab 4wd deisel because they dont put the miles on the truck... I guess that the only point I was trying to make.
Post by: lamrith on April 19, 2016, 05:03:18 PM
Jack I guess I was trying to say is that on cost benifit a geo metro or older honda that you put some $ Into would be a better cost benifit than a $35k? Electric car. If you said im buying a NEW car and your situation was such a EV may be the ticket.Had an uncle in AF back in the 70-80's. He used to have to report to base (east coast winters) at drop of a hat, and it was a long haul when it godo weather, let alone snow. He had a subaru wagon that was old in the 90's, had over 300k miles on it, but it started every time, heater worked, and that 4wd gokart never ever failed to get him to base and back and got insane mpg... something to be said about an old school beater/commuter car..
I k ow lots of guys with older commuters that they put a few bucks I to so that they could justify having a new crewcab 4wd deisel because they dont put the miles on the truck... I guess that the only point I was trying to make.
Post by: Special T on April 19, 2016, 05:39:03 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 19, 2016, 05:54:41 PM
is it AWD?
edit:
Quote
Elon Musk has confirmed that the Model 3, Tesla’s first mass market vehicle, will not arrive with dual motor all wheel drive (AWD). He did say, however, during today’s annual shareholder meeting, that dual motors will be available as an option.
After the AWD Tesla Model S 70D replaced the Model S 60kWh to become Tesla’s entry level vehicle earlier this year, some assumed that perhaps Tesla would go the way of Subaru, making all future vehicles AWD. Unfortunately, to keep the price of the Model 3 down to Tesla’s projected $35,000 base price, Tesla will forgo the option for base model deliveries.
“In order to keep the car as affordable as possible, the standard version of the car would have single motor, but we’ll offer dual motor as an option,” said Musk in response to a shareholder question.
The Tesla Model S can still be purchased in a single motor configuration, but the order form on Tesla’s website treats the configuration as a discounted version of the Tesla Model S 85D. Given the value of the discount ($5000), it is likely that the dual motor upgrade for the Model 3 will be similar, placing the least expensive AWD Model 3 at approximately $40,000.
Post by: Alpine Mojo on April 19, 2016, 06:45:04 PM
Post by: Stein on April 19, 2016, 06:47:05 PM
Jack I guess I was trying to say is that on cost benifit a geo metro or older honda that you put some $ Into would be a better cost benifit than a $35k? Electric car. If you said im buying a NEW car and your situation was such a EV may be the ticket.
I k ow lots of guys with older commuters that they put a few bucks I to so that they could justify having a new crewcab 4wd deisel because they dont put the miles on the truck... I guess that the only point I was trying to make.
New Tesla $35k, awesome used car $10k. You will never come close to making it up on gas, not even including tax, title and insurance or replacement battery.
Awesome car though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: dscubame on April 19, 2016, 07:13:06 PM
Post by: follow maggie on April 19, 2016, 11:03:33 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on April 19, 2016, 11:09:11 PM
I am on the preorder list for my daughter. Based on the tweets through the day I figure I am right about at 100k. Estimates are anywhere from 25% to 50% of the preorders are from the U.S. putting me well under 100k and with west coast rolling out first late 2017 may be achievable. AWD will be a option and Elon said it will be much less than the AWD option on the model S which is at 5k.
Uh 100k, I'm not getting what your saying. Your paying a 100k for one? :dunno:
Post by: HntnFsh on April 20, 2016, 06:04:22 AM
I am on the preorder list for my daughter. Based on the tweets through the day I figure I am right about at 100k. Estimates are anywhere from 25% to 50% of the preorders are from the U.S. putting me well under 100k and with west coast rolling out first late 2017 may be achievable. AWD will be a option and Elon said it will be much less than the AWD option on the model S which is at 5k.
Uh 100k, I'm not getting what your saying. Your paying a 100k for one? :dunno:
I think hes saying he will be in the first 100,000 to get one.
Post by: dscubame on April 20, 2016, 06:18:30 AM
The thing with tesla is that they've never been close to meeting a production or price target. That $7500 rebate doesnt apply to every vehicle sold. Each manufacturer is allotted a specific number of rebates. Once that manufacturer has sood that number of eligible vehicles, nor more rebates
Technically not correct. Once a mfg hits 200k in U.S. sales the mfg has the rest of the sales quarter grandfathered in to sell as many as they do qualifying for the tax credit until that quarter is up. Call upon Google you will find Forbes wrote a good article clarifying the situation.
After 7,500 rebate it gets cut in half for awhile then cut in half again for some time.
Post by: swanny on April 20, 2016, 12:33:38 PM
My wife and I actually purchased a used Nissan Leaf last summer for the commute/around town car. We live in Covington, she was working in Tacoma at the time and now in North Bend. The 60+ miles a day on the V8 was costing way to much in gas. So we did the math, and for the price of gas a month a used 2013 Leaf costs us less a month for what she was and is driving. We charge via 220v every night at home (thank you PSE for the $500 rebate on our charger) and have seen the cost of electricity go up about $30-40 a month.
The Leaf certainly is not perfect, but for 99% of what we drive daily it is perfect. It's hard to get used to the idea of relying on electricty and watching your range go down, but after a while you feel like a normal driver. I definately recommend anyone taking a look at an EV for a primary/2nd vehicle if you are in the market.
I should also say, it drives like a go-kart!
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 20, 2016, 12:37:33 PM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 20, 2016, 12:43:16 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on April 20, 2016, 02:30:50 PM
Congrats on becoming an eventual EV owner!
My wife and I actually purchased a used Nissan Leaf last summer for the commute/around town car. We live in Covington, she was working in Tacoma at the time and now in North Bend. The 60+ miles a day on the V8 was costing way to much in gas. So we did the math, and for the price of gas a month a used 2013 Leaf costs us less a month for what she was and is driving. We charge via 220v every night at home (thank you PSE for the $500 rebate on our charger) and have seen the cost of electricity go up about $30-40 a month.
The Leaf certainly is not perfect, but for 99% of what we drive daily it is perfect. It's hard to get used to the idea of relying on electricty and watching your range go down, but after a while you feel like a normal driver. I definately recommend anyone taking a look at an EV for a primary/2nd vehicle if you are in the market.
I should also say, it drives like a go-kart!
What did the Leaf cost?
Post by: swanny on April 20, 2016, 04:08:29 PM
Congrats on becoming an eventual EV owner!
My wife and I actually purchased a used Nissan Leaf last summer for the commute/around town car. We live in Covington, she was working in Tacoma at the time and now in North Bend. The 60+ miles a day on the V8 was costing way to much in gas. So we did the math, and for the price of gas a month a used 2013 Leaf costs us less a month for what she was and is driving. We charge via 220v every night at home (thank you PSE for the $500 rebate on our charger) and have seen the cost of electricity go up about $30-40 a month.
The Leaf certainly is not perfect, but for 99% of what we drive daily it is perfect. It's hard to get used to the idea of relying on electricty and watching your range go down, but after a while you feel like a normal driver. I definately recommend anyone taking a look at an EV for a primary/2nd vehicle if you are in the market.
I should also say, it drives like a go-kart!
What did the Leaf cost?
For our 2013 I think we got it for $10,400 before tax. It had just under 25k on it.
Post by: Special T on April 20, 2016, 04:10:53 PM
Post by: Special T on April 20, 2016, 04:14:25 PM
Kinda why I have big hopes for the Elio. At $7k it would be easy to own as a commuter rig new and I think lots of people would buy a new efficient commuter for less than $10k
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on April 20, 2016, 05:18:56 PM
Swanny thats a pretty decent deal on an EV. More people would hop on the wagon at that price range.
Kinda why I have big hopes for the Elio. At $7k it would be easy to own as a commuter rig new and I think lots of people would buy a new efficient commuter for less than $10k
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Cheap and some what small.
Post by: swanny on April 21, 2016, 08:09:32 AM
Swanny thats a pretty decent deal on an EV. More people would hop on the wagon at that price range.
Kinda why I have big hopes for the Elio. At $7k it would be easy to own as a commuter rig new and I think lots of people would buy a new efficient commuter for less than $10k
Yea, the used price is what really made us feel like it was affordable and doable. I will admit, I wish it had more range, but like I said for 99% of daily driving needs it gets the job 100% done. It's kind of fun showing up to local trails to go for a hike or mountain bike ride knowing you burned zero gas, and that if you had to go find a charger, it's only going to cost you $5 to "fill up".
Like I said earlier, anyone considering a new commuter car for themselves, a high school kid, whoever, they are worth a look for daily city driving.