Post by: fishnfur on April 25, 2016, 10:34:45 PM
If you remember last fall, sometime around the 10th of October, we had numerous reports of active blacktail rutting behavior by large/mature bucks in the suburban areas, which seemed to end within a week of the first report. Certainly last year, there was an increased number of does entering an early estrous around that time. On many occasions, the first estrous cycle and breeding does not result in a successful pregnancy, but some percentage of the does will be impregnated.
The average gestation period of 203 days, counted out from (say 10 October for lack of a better date) the date of early noted early rut activity gives a fawning date of 01 May to perhaps the 8th of May for these does that bred successfully in early October. As occurs in all animals though, there is some variability in the length of time the fetus is carried, so the actual fawning dates may be several days earlier or later than this predicted birthing time-frame.
Signs that birthing is eminent or has occurred, other than finding a fawn in the grass, is the sudden appearance of yearlings out wandering aimlessly, and at odd hours, after being shunned by their mothers as she prepares to give birth. Also, the does themselves may be moving more in daylight as they travel between hiding fawns that were intentionally separated in order to minimize loosing both to a single predator.
I'd be interested to hear reports if anybody sees or suspects that fawning has begun.
Post by: Firedogg on April 25, 2016, 10:54:25 PM
Post by: lokidog on April 25, 2016, 11:47:02 PM
Post by: Eric M on April 25, 2016, 11:47:26 PM
Post by: UncleBuck on April 26, 2016, 05:24:38 AM
Post by: jasnt on April 26, 2016, 05:34:35 AM
Good time to do a little predator control and help save some fawns.:yeah:
Post by: 180-GRAIN on April 26, 2016, 08:20:46 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on April 26, 2016, 08:38:15 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on April 26, 2016, 11:34:08 AM
Post by: Curly on April 26, 2016, 12:16:10 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 26, 2016, 12:33:50 PM
Post by: AKBowman on April 28, 2016, 11:05:21 PM
Post by: Curly on April 29, 2016, 08:33:47 AM
Post by: REHJWA on April 29, 2016, 08:43:12 AM
Post by: PolarBear on April 29, 2016, 08:43:30 AM
Good time to do a little predator control and help save some fawns.:yeah:
Have shot 14 of the fawn/calf killers in just the past couple of weeks on our place alone. Seems pretty early for fawns, We usually see them starting later in May and through June.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 29, 2016, 10:31:42 AM
14! ? :yike: that is getting after it! Good work!Good time to do a little predator control and help save some fawns.:yeah:
Have shot 14 of the fawn/calf killers in just the past couple of weeks on our place alone. Seems pretty early for fawns, We usually see them starting later in May and through June.
:mgun:
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 29, 2016, 10:37:23 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on April 29, 2016, 12:05:14 PM
Post by: PolarBear on April 29, 2016, 12:13:45 PM
14! ? :yike: that is getting after it! Good work!Good time to do a little predator control and help save some fawns.:yeah:
Have shot 14 of the fawn/calf killers in just the past couple of weeks on our place alone. Seems pretty early for fawns, We usually see them starting later in May and through June.
:mgun:
Thanks. Between my daughter and myself we are up to 22 since the first of the year.
Post by: 7mmfan on April 29, 2016, 12:40:52 PM
Post by: fishnfur on May 01, 2016, 12:37:55 AM
I was looking for info on early estrous in deer and found a somewhat interesting and short article out of one of the schools in Wisconsin on reproductive seasonality of deer - a general discussion for the most part but includes rather uninteresting descriptions of the differences between species of deer. Blacktail are lumped into the mule deer category (I believe). Check out the graph and skip the discussion if so inclined.
http://www.ansci.wisc.edu/jjp1/ansci_repro/misc/websites09/thur/Deer%20Seasonality/Deer%20Seasonality.html#implications
PolarBear - you rock man!
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 01, 2016, 08:15:06 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on May 01, 2016, 10:13:28 AM
:bfg: I will be hyper alert for coyotes now.
Post by: pd on May 01, 2016, 10:26:13 AM
http://www.ansci.wisc.edu/jjp1/ansci_repro/misc/websites09/thur/Deer%20Seasonality/Deer%20Seasonality.html#implications
Good find! Quite interesting information there.
Post by: fishnfur on May 06, 2016, 10:20:34 AM
The next three days verified that a single mature doe, somewhere around 110 - 120 lbs., was gorging on the apple tree leaves. She buries her nose in the fruit bearing regions and almost inhales the leaves, like it was a big salad bowl. Normally, they pick single leaves and twigs off, so I believe that considering her very thin (not pregnant) belly, she has likely already given birth and is gorging on succulent forage to offset her caloric loss from the rigors of lactation. .....at least I don't think she looks pregnant, which of course does not mean she gave birth either. Who knows? It may be the second pic is a different deer - she looks a little more stout.
Post by: MooseStock on May 08, 2016, 06:13:58 PM
Post by: erk444 on May 10, 2016, 12:10:18 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on May 10, 2016, 12:34:27 PM
Post by: REHJWA on May 10, 2016, 04:44:31 PM
Came across this one last weekend :tup:
Thanks for sharing. :tup: :tup:
Post by: fishnfur on May 10, 2016, 11:08:40 PM
Moosestock - the point of the thread was early estrous resulting in early fawning. As you state, the majority of the fawns will be dropped in the last week of May and first week of June.
I think the window is about closed on those early breedings resulting in pregnancies. I'm sure a few of the new fawns will show themselves the next week or two.
Don't quote me on this, but the implications of an early estrous that likely occurs annually (according to my books) in a significant percentage of does, may result in the early buck movement we experienced in early October last year. This is likely especially important during mild winters when deer survival is above the norm. More does survived = more does experiencing early estrous (and more bucks surviving = more buck movement, as a whole). While the majority of does that are bred in early October are not successfully impregnated, this first estrous seems to be the start of the beginning of the movement of bucks searching for mates. Last year, even trophy bucks were out and moving in full rut style a month early, which may be a result of so many bucks surviving the winter.
Those with multi-season deer tags - October 7 - 13 plus or minus may be an excellent time to be in the woods sitting on stand at a trail intersection. (Bobcat- think rut hole) It seems thought, that by the opener, the initial Blacktail buck movement surge is likely over, or at least greatly reduced.
Shhhh.......
Post by: MountainWalk on May 11, 2016, 12:03:46 AM
Post by: crowinghen on May 13, 2016, 11:29:42 AM
Post by: fishnfur on May 13, 2016, 10:27:54 PM
Post by: lokidog on May 14, 2016, 09:08:26 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on May 15, 2016, 10:57:11 AM
Post by: JakeLand on May 15, 2016, 04:22:14 PM
Post by: justyhntr on May 15, 2016, 04:35:19 PM
Now is the time to drop some coyotes we've been seeing yotes all over lately and I've got a itch to drop some fawn killers
:tup:
Post by: fishnfur on May 15, 2016, 10:01:38 PM
I'm starting to believe that perhaps last fall's early rutting activity may not be that much of a rarity, at least in the relatively mild regions from the foothills down to sea level areas. There seems to be plenty of forage available for nursing mothers by the beginning of May. The extra month of time available for an early-born fawn to gain enough body mass prior to the onset of it's first winter is probably a huge factor in determining it's ability to survive that winter period and the associated scarcity of browse; especially so in the case of an early cold snap that defoliates remaining late fall shrubs.
It seems that (if you believe in evolution and natural selection) the population of lowland deer in areas with typically mild winters would naturally trend towards an earlier rut, which would result in greater survival of early-born fawns over the subsequent winter. :dunno: The peak of the rut still remains in early November....... Hmmmm, I gotta do some more cogitation on this.
Should any of this affect my hunting strategy? :dunno: Perhaps not at all, but if I get a MS tag, I think I'll be in the woods the second week of October this year instead of fishing for silvers on the Cowlitz.
Post by: Curly on May 18, 2016, 12:49:02 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on May 22, 2016, 09:38:14 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on May 22, 2016, 10:01:53 PM
Came across this one last weekend :tup:
It's like I'm not moving and you can't see me. :chuckle:
Post by: fishnfur on May 22, 2016, 11:33:34 PM
I still have no visuals indicating that new fawns are among us. I did notice that on the last day of April, suddenly my previously pristine apple trees in my back yard had been browsed for the first time this Spring. After three days of watching the trees get beat up every night, I put a trail cam out (wishing for a buck, but expecting yea rlings).
The next three days verified that a single mature doe, somewhere around 110 - 120 lbs., was gorging on the apple tree leaves. She buries her nose in the fruit bearing regions and almost inhales the leaves, like it was a big salad bowl. Normally, they pick single leaves and twigs off, so I believe that considering her very thin (not pregnant) belly, she has likely already given birth and is gorging on succulent forage to offset her caloric loss from the rigors of lactation. .....at least I don't think she looks pregnant, which of course does not mean she gave birth either. Who knows? It may be the second pic is a different deer - she looks a little more stout.
Silly me. I saw these two at dusk on Friday night (almost three weeks later) eating mini-apples I had thinned off the trees. Turned out they were both bucks - still just showing a bit of antler growth. The long legs should have been a tip-off.
Fantastic photo HUNTINCOUPLE. Is that a mule deer or blacktail, or can you even tell?
Post by: lokidog on May 22, 2016, 11:44:22 PM
Nice photo lokidog. I assume that Fidalgo Island has similar problems of deer overpopulation as the San Juans and Island Co. isles. You'd think there'd be a whole bunch of new/early fawns on the islands these days.
I'm starting to believe that perhaps last fall's early rutting activity may not be that much of a rarity, at least in the relatively mild regions from the foothills down to sea level areas. There seems to be plenty of forage available for nursing mothers by the beginning of May. The extra month of time available for an early-born fawn to gain enough body mass prior to the onset of it's first winter is probably a huge factor in determining it's ability to survive that winter period and the associated scarcity of browse; especially so in the case of an early cold snap that defoliates remaining late fall shrubs.
It seems that (if you believe in evolution and natural selection) the population of lowland deer in areas with typically mild winters would naturally trend towards an earlier rut, which would result in greater survival of early-born fawns over the subsequent winter. :dunno: The peak of the rut still remains in early November....... Hmmmm, I gotta do some more cogitation on this.
Should any of this affect my hunting strategy? :dunno: Perhaps not at all, but if I get a MS tag, I think I'll be in the woods the second week of October this year instead of fishing for silvers on the Cowlitz.
Thanks. I think in areas with fewer predators, cities, islands, etc., there is less selective pressure to drop fawns all at once (the more fawns on the ground, the less likely one is to be eaten as predators may already be full) so the breeding season tends to get stretched out a bit more. It does seem that, in these situations, it would be beneficial to drop earlier so that the fawn would be larger going into the winter.
We seem to have a lot of really small yearlings (late fawns) but I am not sure what the selective advantage of that would be. :dunno:
Still have not seen a 2016 fawn here, but there has been a lot more deer activity recently.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on May 23, 2016, 08:20:29 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on May 23, 2016, 08:24:19 AM
I still have no visuals indicating that new fawns are among us. I did notice that on the last day of April, suddenly my previously pristine apple trees in my back yard had been browsed for the first time this Spring. After three days of watching the trees get beat up every night, I put a trail cam out (wishing for a buck, but expecting yea rlings).
The next three days verified that a single mature doe, somewhere around 110 - 120 lbs., was gorging on the apple tree leaves. She buries her nose in the fruit bearing regions and almost inhales the leaves, like it was a big salad bowl. Normally, they pick single leaves and twigs off, so I believe that considering her very thin (not pregnant) belly, she has likely already given birth and is gorging on succulent forage to offset her caloric loss from the rigors of lactation. .....at least I don't think she looks pregnant, which of course does not mean she gave birth either. Who knows? It may be the second pic is a different deer - she looks a little more stout.
Silly me. I saw these two at dusk on Friday night (almost three weeks later) eating mini-apples I had thinned off the trees. Turned out they were both bucks - still just showing a bit of antler growth. The long legs should have been a tip-off.
Fantastic photo HUNTINCOUPLE. Is that a mule deer or blacktail, or can you even tell?
It is neither mule deer or blacktail deer. It is one of a kind BENCHLEGER deer! The deer around our place for sure have more blacktail than muley in them but to hash that out would require a new thread. :chuckle:
Post by: fishnfur on May 23, 2016, 10:44:11 AM
PM sent.
Post by: Curly on June 01, 2016, 06:23:35 AM
Post by: BNAElkhntr on June 01, 2016, 07:21:28 AM
All of this in the Wilds Of Newcastle
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on June 01, 2016, 07:23:58 AM
Post by: Special T on June 01, 2016, 08:14:53 AM
Post by: PolarBear on June 01, 2016, 12:17:51 PM
Post by: Encore 280 on June 01, 2016, 12:43:33 PM
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on June 01, 2016, 08:17:41 PM
Last week or so. Better learn about road crossing real quick!
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Post by: Blacktail Sniper on June 05, 2016, 12:15:55 PM
Post by: fishnfur on June 06, 2016, 02:01:30 PM