Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => All Other Gear => Topic started by: jackelope on May 08, 2016, 07:29:46 PM

Title: Heat pump?
Post by: jackelope on May 08, 2016, 07:29:46 PM: Not hunting related... Sorry. There's an answer for everything here though.

Has anyone made the switch to a heat pump? My family is considering buying a new house that has a heat pump. It's got propane from a tank in the yard that also fuels the furnace, but has a heat pump and a/c. We're curious to know the ins and outs of those systems. Do they work and save money? Propane is not cheap. Wow.
I'm sort of wondering if with no city sewer bill, and the heat pump, if that will sort of even out the utility bill? The place does have city water, but propane and septic.
Also, on a somewhat related topic, has anyone ever moved a propane tank? This place has a tank, I think it's a 500 gallon tank, right in the middle of the yard. If we buy it, I would like to look into having it moved off to the side of the yard.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: baker5150 on May 08, 2016, 07:42:22 PM: Heat pumps can be extremely efficient. Depending on the Efficiency rating of the heat pump itself and it being properly sized, installed and maintained.

If you get me the Make, Model, and Serial number of the heat pump I can tell you all about it.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: Special T on May 08, 2016, 07:43:23 PM: My Folks have a Propane Heat pumo combo... Pretty common actually. Heat pumps work great in NW weather where its fairly mild. They work good in a range of 20-90deg or soemthing like that. Very efficient. Propane is a kicker because it works well in tandem to bump the temp up in the home. Great for when its colder than the efficent range. You can move the tank but there are set back rules from the property line and that could be why its in the middle of the lawn.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: follow maggie on May 08, 2016, 07:46:04 PM: I put a heat pump on my house and love it. I'll never go back
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: Special T on May 08, 2016, 07:51:12 PM: Bst part is you get AC and Heat at pretty efficient price to operate.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: elkaholic123 on May 08, 2016, 07:56:55 PM: Quote from: Special T on May 08, 2016, 07:51:12 PM
Bst part is you get AC and Heat at pretty efficient price to operate.
:yeah: I added heat pump last year to my natural gas forced air furnace, money well spent.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: jackelope on May 08, 2016, 08:11:48 PM: Thanks guys. This person went all out with this house so I assume it's done right. I'll get that model info ASAP. Also has a 14kw Generac auto switch propane generator built in and a fire suppression system too.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: wsmnut on May 08, 2016, 08:28:16 PM: Our energy costs went down after changing to a heat pump about 5 years ago.
Love it. And the advantage of having that cool air on in the summer is awesome.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: DaveMonti on May 08, 2016, 09:27:23 PM: The heat pump uses significantly less energy than electric resistance heat. It is also more efficient than propane from an energy basis. Propane here is very expensive, so you will be spending less on energy as a whole, especially since the propane will only be used when it's too cold for the heat pump to provide adequate heat.
The one thing that you will have to consider is that your summer electric bill will probably go up if you don't have AC now! You will have much better comfort in the summer, so it will be worth it! You're annual energy bill will be lower, even with the AC use in the summer!

Let me know and we can talk about it if you want. I work in the energy field, and know a lot about residential, commercial, and industrial equipment that uses energy.

Dave
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: BeWitty on May 08, 2016, 09:34:11 PM: I don't want to thread Jack but I have a question about heat pump cycle frequency. My in-laws have a heat pump that seems to cycle on and off way too often but I don't know much about them other than they are supposed to be efficient. I went ahead and timed the cycles. During the day it runs for 3 minutes, and then is off for three minutes. It seemed to do this consistently for the hour I was outside.

Does this seem right? Thanks.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: jackelope on May 08, 2016, 09:48:54 PM: Quote from: DaveMonti on May 08, 2016, 09:27:23 PM
The heat pump uses significantly less energy than electric resistance heat. It is also more efficient than propane from an energy basis. Propane here is very expensive, so you will be spending less on energy as a whole, especially since the propane will only be used when it's too cold for the heat pump to provide adequate heat.
The one thing that you will have to consider is that your summer electric bill will probably go up if you don't have AC now! You will have much better comfort in the summer, so it will be worth it! You're annual energy bill will be lower, even with the AC use in the summer!

Let me know and we can talk about it if you want. I work in the energy field, and know a lot about residential, commercial, and industrial equipment that uses energy.

Dave

Thanks Dave! Really need to get together one of these days!!
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: DaveMonti on May 08, 2016, 09:53:16 PM: Short cycling can be caused by a multitude of problems, including low refrigerant, AC coil icing (probably not at this time of year!), control problems or setpoints, damaged compressor, etc. It's probably best to have someone service it when they can witness the problem. It's a pretty common problem with many potential causes!
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: DaveMonti on May 08, 2016, 10:06:15 PM: Quote from: jackelope on May 08, 2016, 09:48:54 PM
Quote from: DaveMonti on May 08, 2016, 09:27:23 PM
The heat pump uses significantly less energy than electric resistance heat. It is also more efficient than propane from an energy basis. Propane here is very expensive, so you will be spending less on energy as a whole, especially since the propane will only be used when it's too cold for the heat pump to provide adequate heat.
The one thing that you will have to consider is that your summer electric bill will probably go up if you don't have AC now! You will have much better comfort in the summer, so it will be worth it! You're annual energy bill will be lower, even with the AC use in the summer!

Let me know and we can talk about it if you want. I work in the energy field, and know a lot about residential, commercial, and industrial equipment that uses energy.

Dave

Thanks Dave! Really need to get together one of these days!!

I have a propane heater in my shop (electric forced air in the house) and looked into moving the tank. The pipe that runs underground has to be protected from corrosion and I think it's usually epoxy coated. You'll have to contact the propane company because they typically own the tank (you have to buy from them if they do) and they will probably come out and inspect it after you buy the house. I don't use much propane in the shop (I heat with wood when it needs heating), so I didn't enter into any purchase agreement (I will call when I need it, not have them auto fill or anything like that). Propane can be a racket with the purchase agreements, pricing, etc. I've been here for 3 winters and have not had to fill my tank for the shop yet.

We will definitely have to get together sometime soon!
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: PolarBear on May 08, 2016, 10:08:27 PM: Quote from: DaveMonti on May 08, 2016, 09:53:16 PM
Short cycling can be caused by a multitude of problems, including low refrigerant, AC coil icing (probably not at this time of year!), control problems or setpoints, damaged compressor, etc. It's probably best to have someone service it when they can witness the problem. It's a pretty common problem with many potential causes!
:yeah:
First thing to always check on a heat pump is the filter. When I installed and serviced heat pumps most of my calls were solved by simply changing out a filter. :chuckle:
Jackalope, heat pumps are the way to go!! I won't have another house without one!
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: Forks on May 09, 2016, 05:55:08 AM: Having a mid efficiency propane furnace without a heat pimp would be spendy to run as others have mentioned. The bonus of AC will be nice this summer if it's anything like last years!
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: trophyhunt on May 09, 2016, 06:47:01 AM: Not much more to add, love our heat pump also. I will add this, it's a great idea to buy your own propane tank if it isn't owned by you already. The propane companies can really screw you if your leasing the tank, we own ours and we get to shop around. I just filled up for 1.16 a gal, lowest I've ever seen since we moved in 10 years ago. My neighbor paid over 6.00 a gal one year when I paid 2.40, he told them to come get their tank and he bought a new one.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: Special T on May 09, 2016, 07:09:05 AM: I think its best to own the tank. My folks have a gas cook stove and a gas fireplace 500 gallons get them through the year pretty easy with the heat pump and they live up in the mountains where they get snow fairly often. They save a BUNCH by filling up and shopping around in the summertime. If it were me id get a second 500gal tank since you have then generator. :twocents:
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: Antlershed on May 09, 2016, 07:24:35 AM: When we bought our house, it only had propane heat. After the first winter (2009), and getting $400-$500 propane bills each month (we didn't own our tank at that time), we made the plunge and bought a heat pump. For ours, roughly 33 degrees is the temp in which it switches over to propane. Below that temp, propane is just more efficient. We also bought our propane tank so we can shop for the lowest cost. Our house is 1100 square feet, and in the summer we keep it at 69-70 degrees and in the winter, we keep it around 70-71. We now only get two propane fills each year (250 gal tank), and were able to find a place that consistently has it for $1.79-$1.99/gal, and that is with being on their auto-fill program. Also, our PSE bill has never been over $125/month since making the change. Most PSE bills are under $100.

I should mention, our hot water tank and range are both propane, so those contribute to the use, and take away from the electric bill.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: MagKarl on May 09, 2016, 09:06:43 AM: As others have mentioned, there are leased tanks and owned tanks. The difference is when you own it, you can price shop for propane. The price range varies a lot between vendors and seasons. One thing I didn't know at the time I bought mine was they only fill to 80% and you don't want to run out, so your "working" range is probably only 60-70% of the tank size. A larger tank is obviously more expensive to buy, but if big enough to only need one fill per year you can do it in the summer when prices are lowest.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: baker5150 on May 09, 2016, 09:13:51 AM: LP prices vary by the size of your tank as well. Basically the more you buy the better the price since it offsets the delivery cost.

Buy vs. Lease you should do that math considering your usage.

A 500 gallon tank runs about $1600.

If you own it, you can also bury them. You will need a riser and anodes, as well as a coating on the tank.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 09, 2016, 09:20:33 AM: Tagging. The wealth of information here is astounding.

Hunt-WA delivers again.

:tup:
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: jackelope on May 09, 2016, 09:28:01 AM: Quote from: Fl0und3rz on May 09, 2016, 09:20:33 AM
Tagging. The wealth of information here is astounding.

Hunt-WA delivers again.

:tup:

:yeah:
Thanks to all you guys.
Title: Re: Heat pump?
Post by: BD1 on May 10, 2016, 02:26:10 PM: Went from oil heat :yike: to electric heat pump...no complaints...I love it and the AC too when needed. Only thing I miss is laying next to the heater on cold days and feeling "hot" air coming out. It is like luke warm air but a better setup and much cheaper once it is paid off. Initial investment was about 12K. Also when Aux heat is necessary if can be very expensive as it basically runs off heat strips and in like a straight electric furnace, only has happened a few times. There are some "trick" to running them more efficiently then the factory setting sometimes. Not sure if these things apply to a gas set up though.
Mike BD1