Post by: HoofsandWings on February 01, 2009, 09:43:51 PM
I was amazed at the number of muzzleloader tags issued.
Is there something I am missing as to why the sucess rate is so low?
Thanks
Post by: CP on February 02, 2009, 11:26:13 AM
Post by: Moose Eyes on February 02, 2009, 11:27:44 AM
Post by: boneaddict on February 02, 2009, 11:30:04 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on February 02, 2009, 12:12:23 PM
Post by: fire*guy on February 02, 2009, 12:27:30 PM
Post by: ghgetter on February 02, 2009, 12:29:34 PM
It rained a bunch and some folks got their powder wet
Thats no joke...had 2 buddies "blow" chances on 300"+ bulls this year c/ of the rain.
Post by: HoofsandWings on February 02, 2009, 06:37:11 PM
So it rained during muzzleloader season in 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007??It rained a bunch and some folks got their powder wetThats no joke...had 2 buddies "blow" chances on 300"+ bulls this year c/ of the rain.
fire*guy, I looked at some large units and there were only a hundred or so muzzleloader hunters compared to a thousand for modern rifle. I know some units have high ML turn out, but there are a bunch where the turnout was relatively low.
So I am confused.
Post by: fishunt247 on February 02, 2009, 06:54:24 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 02, 2009, 08:13:09 PM
Post by: SHANE(WA) on February 02, 2009, 11:43:37 PM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on February 05, 2009, 07:54:36 PM
If you look at the units we get for the seasons you will find high road density, lots of clearcuts and deep canyons. ML can really shoot to 125-150 yards effectively with open sights, once you get past that range the animal becomes hidden by your sights. I am comfortable to 125. I like the time of year we get to hunt, yes the bulls have broken off from the groups of cows so they can be harder to find but that is why it is called hunting and not killing.
Road hunting is a detriment also, animals book it to deep canyons also. I like hunting the deep drainages, there are less people. I would like to see a few more units open for ML hunting, it would cut down on the over crowding.
Post by: robodad on February 05, 2009, 11:30:56 PM
Quote
and alot of wounding, by far the worst of all weapons for elk
I agree that this is only your opinion !! There will be lost animals in every weapon choice, I heard of five 3pt or better bulls wounded in early archery and not recovered in a westside unit by a group of 3 hunters and one was a guide so it happens to every group.
Post by: colockumelk on February 06, 2009, 03:48:33 PM
Everything nearly has to be perfect, not quite as perfect as with a bow, but nearer to perfect. Around 100 yards is max, no running shots, no second shot, etc. If you were out listening to all the shots during muzzleloader season, then look at the harvest reports, you know there is a lot of missing going on.
I disagree. I killed my deer this year at 165 yds and can accurately shoot at 200 yds. But I will agree that your average guy can only accurately shoot to 100yds because your average joe goes to the range the week before the season to check and make sure it's still on. So I will agree on that most people can't shoot a ML for crap.
Quote from: bobcat
Second thing is muzzleloader season is just after the rut ends. That can be a tough time to find a bull. They are tired of chasing cows and are resting somewhere in an isolated spot and aren't moving around much.
Bobcat I'm not sure what the seasons are over on the west side but on the east side it hits the tail end of the rut. I've noticed that in WA the rut starts later than many other states. During the ML season the bulls are desperate running around trying to grab the remaining cows that havn't been bred yet. THey are extremely easy to call at this time. In my opinion the best special permits out there are the ML tags. They are at the tail end of the rut, and are super aggressive, you have the season to yourself for the first few days and there are less ML hunters out there and you can reach out to 150yds if you practise, and there's less ML hunters than rifle or bow hunters.
Here's my opinion on the matter. They don't have as many areas so the hunters get compacted into small areas. Most are prior rifle hunters that use the same tactics they used when they hunted with a rifle except now they have a rifle, IE road hunt, set up on a big ridge etc. Most guys can't shoot for crap. WHen they hunted with a rifle they'd go out the week before and make sure their scopes were still on. WIth a scope this is okay most people can shoot out to 300 yds after minimal practise. You can't do this with a ML. So in short it's not the season it's the hunters. Too many people rifle style hunting with a ML. Another big reason is the ML season only covers one weekend. For people like me who can't take time off of school/work than this severely restricts your time out in the woods.
Post by: fishunt247 on February 06, 2009, 07:45:07 PM
Post by: colockumelk on February 07, 2009, 10:45:31 AM
Everything nearly has to be perfect, not quite as perfect as with a bow, but nearer to perfect. Around 100 yards is max, no running shots, no second shot, etc. If you were out listening to all the shots during muzzleloader season, then look at the harvest reports, you know there is a lot of missing going on.Clockum, thats a bold statement to be makin to say that most guys can't shoot for crap...especially to my post, seemingly meaning that I can't shoot for crap. My success rate with a muzzleloader proves otherwise. I passed a shot on a buck at a ranged 147 yards this year. He was quartering away and I had a rest. At that distance my front site covers the entire front half of the deer. That isn't precise enough for me. I shoot a lot, and will take a shot to 125 yards. But for the discussion, what sight are you shooting? And what groups are you regularly getting at 200 yards? I live in Ellensburg and would love to see the master at his craft.
fishunt calm down I never said you couldn't shoot for crap. I have never seen you shoot so I would never say that about you. In your original statement you said that 100yds was the max range for a ML. For many people this may be true. For me it is not. I was simply stating as such. In your first post you said that there was alot of missing going on so you are also saying people can't shoot for crap. I'm not saying everybody that ML hunts can't shoot for crap but many can't. This is because many people are lazy and only practise once or twice before the season and call it good. Then they shoot past 100yds and thus miss. Thus they can't shoot for crap. I'm not saying this about everyone. But if the shoe fits.......
To answer your questions about my set up. I shoot a T/C Black Diamond XTR in .50 cal. I use a peep sight and shoot 100grns of Pyrodex pellets and shoot a 250 grain sabot with a polymer tip. I agree past 100yds regular regular sights block out the entire deer. I hunt open country for deer and wanted more range and accuracy for my ML. Thus I switched to the peep sight. The last time I shot at 100yds I had two bullets touching each other and the third was maybe half an inch below those two. The next three times that I target practised I shot at a 8 inch diameter steel target at 150 yds and hit it every time. At 200yds I hit that 8 inch target 2 out of 3 times. I was also in the Marine Corps for 4 plus years and regularly shot out to 500meters with peep sights. I'm not a sniper by any means but I can shoot.
Post by: Moose Eyes on February 07, 2009, 01:25:23 PM
What peep sight did you put on your Black Diamond? My dad uses the same gun and I am interested in setting him with something other than the sight that came with the gun.
Thanks!
Post by: colockumelk on February 07, 2009, 05:21:42 PM
Code No. 66708
Model No. WGRS-Black Diamond
Post by: OneHorn on February 07, 2009, 06:20:48 PM
Everything nearly has to be perfect, not quite as perfect as with a bow, but nearer to perfect. Around 100 yards is max, no running shots, no second shot, etc. If you were out listening to all the shots during muzzleloader season, then look at the harvest reports, you know there is a lot of missing going on.Clockum, thats a bold statement to be makin to say that most guys can't shoot for crap...especially to my post, seemingly meaning that I can't shoot for crap. My success rate with a muzzleloader proves otherwise. I passed a shot on a buck at a ranged 147 yards this year. He was quartering away and I had a rest. At that distance my front site covers the entire front half of the deer. That isn't precise enough for me. I shoot a lot, and will take a shot to 125 yards. But for the discussion, what sight are you shooting? And what groups are you regularly getting at 200 yards? I live in Ellensburg and would love to see the master at his craft.
fishunt calm down I never said you couldn't shoot for crap. I have never seen you shoot so I would never say that about you. In your original statement you said that 100yds was the max range for a ML. For many people this may be true. For me it is not. I was simply stating as such. In your first post you said that there was alot of missing going on so you are also saying people can't shoot for crap. I'm not saying everybody that ML hunts can't shoot for crap but many can't. This is because many people are lazy and only practise once or twice before the season and call it good. Then they shoot past 100yds and thus miss. Thus they can't shoot for crap. I'm not saying this about everyone. But if the shoe fits.......
I got the same thing outa what you said as fishunt247. You make it sound like no one can shoot but you. I think what fishunt247 was saying is that people take alot of long shots that they shouldnt and miss the elk in general.He wasnt saying that nobody can shoot.
Post by: rasbo on February 07, 2009, 06:30:47 PM
Post by: docsven on February 07, 2009, 06:49:39 PM
Post by: Moose Eyes on February 07, 2009, 07:40:26 PM
Yeah the sights that come with the Black Diamond are horrible for accurate groups. The sights are too fat. I went to this website and bought this peep sight. It costs $36.95 http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/wgrs.htm (http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/wgrs.htm)
Code No. 66708
Model No. WGRS-Black Diamond
Thank you!
Post by: colockumelk on February 07, 2009, 08:08:22 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on February 07, 2009, 08:53:24 PM
Post by: colockumelk on February 08, 2009, 09:45:25 AM
Post by: Curly on February 08, 2009, 06:39:22 PM
Bobcat I'm not sure what the seasons are over on the west side but on the east side it hits the tail end of the rut.
I believe that in Western Wa the bulls have bread all the cows by the time ML season starts. When I've hunted Eastern Wa the bulls could be called in during ML season, but W WA has been a different story for me. Maybe other people have had different experiences, but my experience has been that they are done by the time we can hunt. I haven't been able to find any branched bulls with a herd of cows during ML season in W Wa.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on February 09, 2009, 05:34:36 AM
We have been up hunting and had bulls talking to us but we could never get them to commit. Some years we hit the tail end of the rut, some years we are right in the thick of the rut, and some years it is over with. Depends on the weather, the light of day and the cows... And we only hunt the wet side, i know nothing of the east side.
Post by: colockumelk on February 09, 2009, 11:17:26 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 09, 2009, 11:47:00 PM
Post by: Curly on February 10, 2009, 05:37:46 AM
Post by: clindsayrun on February 10, 2009, 10:28:02 AM
My brother pulled the trigger and the cap went off, but the charge didn't. Adios bull!!!
Mine was even worse. I actually missed. Reloaded and crept ten yards closer, took a rest on my knee, aimed....and MISSED again. Adios bull!!!
Went back to camp and took an off hand test shot at a soda can at 40 yards and nailed it dead center.
That night while cleaning the rifle I found the problem. My rear sight had been knocked loose and broken. I had the TruGlo fiber optic sights on the gun. Anyway I had knocked it on a tree or something and broken them. If I touched the rear sight it would move all over. Turn the rifle, the sight would move. Pushed to the right the rifle was dead accurate, any other position I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
I tried to superglue the sight back into place for the remainder of the hunt, but I never had another shot opportunity.
Post by: colockumelk on February 10, 2009, 10:32:36 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on February 10, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
Post by: colockumelk on February 10, 2009, 01:07:47 PM