Post by: alanger on February 02, 2009, 08:19:43 AM
Post by: Gutpile on February 02, 2009, 08:32:23 AM
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on February 02, 2009, 08:39:40 AM
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 08:42:49 AM
I voted for 22-250, but I seem to go to my 25-06 more.
Smart shooter... bad voter? My go-to coyote gun is also a .25-06... they don't move after that combo strikes... unless it's a gravity aided roll down a steep canyon face.
Sorry to break it to all you .22/250 and Swift guys, BUT... the .243/6mm Rem. is where real coyote calibers start... .22 centerfires will always suck hind teet to the 55 NBT at 4k+.
Post by: Gutpile on February 02, 2009, 08:44:16 AM
Post by: alanger on February 02, 2009, 08:46:51 AM
Post by: Gutpile on February 02, 2009, 08:58:53 AM
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 09:07:17 AM
I want to know who voted the 17hmr to the best. :P
Not me... I voted for the .22 Short
Post by: jjhunter on February 02, 2009, 09:14:08 AM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on February 02, 2009, 09:15:49 AM
Post by: Intruder on February 02, 2009, 09:24:58 AM
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 10:07:54 AM
I get a kick out of polls and statements that refer to "the best". So much depends on your criteria. Is it pure balistics, availibility of ammo, availability of bullets, etc? Of the guns listed I voted 223 just for the blend of performance, availability, and affortability. As a general rule most of the 22-25 cal center fires are gonna do the job just fine. The 22 cal stuff IMO is more versitile overall as a varmit gun (not strickly coyotes) from the sense of just not wanting to bang away w/ a 24 or 25 cals on ground squirrels.
This one seems pretty specific to me... BEST CALIBER FOR COYOTE HUNTING. The question doesn't ask 'most economical coyote caliber' or 'best varmint/coyote caliber'... not even 'most widely distributed coyote caliber'... it implys nothing about saving fur, calling, road hunting, glassing, baiting, etc.
Why did I state .243/6mm? Because it is the best... how do I know? Hundreds of coyotes were harmed in the name of science. Emperical evidence has shown the 6mms absolutely dominate ANY of the .22 centerfires... almost no run-offs, superior down-range performance, superior trajectorys, superior projectiles, etc. If given a shot at a coyote... under nearly any field condition... I refuse to believe that anyone in their right mind would rather have a .22/250... than a .243 loaded with 55-70 grain bullets.
Post by: deaddog on February 02, 2009, 10:53:32 AM
243 the best uh, Ill have to check all the dogs Iv shot with a 223 and see if they are realy dead. I always thought dead was dead but evidently Iv been wrong all these years and if your basing your opinion on the ballistics then why not say 338 lapua would be the best or 300 winny or or or.I get a kick out of polls and statements that refer to "the best". So much depends on your criteria. Is it pure balistics, availibility of ammo, availability of bullets, etc? Of the guns listed I voted 223 just for the blend of performance, availability, and affortability. As a general rule most of the 22-25 cal center fires are gonna do the job just fine. The 22 cal stuff IMO is more versitile overall as a varmit gun (not strickly coyotes) from the sense of just not wanting to bang away w/ a 24 or 25 cals on ground squirrels.
This one seems pretty specific to me... BEST CALIBER FOR COYOTE HUNTING. The question doesn't ask 'most economical coyote caliber' or 'best varmint/coyote caliber'... not even 'most widely distributed coyote caliber'... it implys nothing about saving fur, calling, road hunting, glassing, baiting, etc.
Why did I state .243/6mm? Because it is the best... how do I know? Hundreds of coyotes were harmed in the name of science. Emperical evidence has shown the 6mms absolutely dominate ANY of the .22 centerfires... almost no run-offs, superior down-range performance, superior trajectorys, superior projectiles, etc. If given a shot at a coyote... under nearly any field condition... I refuse to believe that anyone in their right mind would rather have a .22/250... than a .243 loaded with 55-70 grain bullets.
Post by: Huntbear on February 02, 2009, 10:55:19 AM
Post by: jjhunter on February 02, 2009, 11:38:04 AM
243 the best uh, Ill have to check all the dogs Iv shot with a 223 and see if they are realy dead. I always thought dead was dead but evidently Iv been wrong all these years and if your basing your opinion on the ballistics then why not say 338 lapua would be the best or 300 winny or or or.I get a kick out of polls and statements that refer to "the best". So much depends on your criteria. Is it pure balistics, availibility of ammo, availability of bullets, etc? Of the guns listed I voted 223 just for the blend of performance, availability, and affortability. As a general rule most of the 22-25 cal center fires are gonna do the job just fine. The 22 cal stuff IMO is more versitile overall as a varmit gun (not strickly coyotes) from the sense of just not wanting to bang away w/ a 24 or 25 cals on ground squirrels.
This one seems pretty specific to me... BEST CALIBER FOR COYOTE HUNTING. The question doesn't ask 'most economical coyote caliber' or 'best varmint/coyote caliber'... not even 'most widely distributed coyote caliber'... it implys nothing about saving fur, calling, road hunting, glassing, baiting, etc.
Why did I state .243/6mm? Because it is the best... how do I know? Hundreds of coyotes were harmed in the name of science. Emperical evidence has shown the 6mms absolutely dominate ANY of the .22 centerfires... almost no run-offs, superior down-range performance, superior trajectorys, superior projectiles, etc. If given a shot at a coyote... under nearly any field condition... I refuse to believe that anyone in their right mind would rather have a .22/250... than a .243 loaded with 55-70 grain bullets.
Put a 55 grain BT (.276 B.C.) at 4050-4100 fps in your ballistics program. Use a 300 yard zero and look at trajectory and wind from 100 - 600 yards. Then, try to find something that compares. If you can hit a chuck or 'yote at 600+ consistently, then you are a better shot than I am :chuckle:
Post by: Gutpile on February 02, 2009, 11:47:34 AM
Quote
I refuse to believe that anyone in their right mind would rather have a .22/250... than a .243 loaded with 55-70 grain bullets.
Go ahead and believe it.
Post by: dbllunger on February 02, 2009, 11:49:33 AM
Post by: demontang on February 02, 2009, 12:16:49 PM
Post by: SagebrushStalker on February 02, 2009, 12:55:53 PM
If you want to shoot yotes past 500-600yards, and want a slight ballistic advantage then go with a 243 or even better a 25-06 either way you still have to do your part, and it better be a damn good part. Just my :twocents:
Post by: wastickslinger on February 02, 2009, 01:04:51 PM
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 01:05:51 PM
243 the best uh, Ill have to check all the dogs Iv shot with a 223 and see if they are realy dead. I always thought dead was dead but evidently Iv been wrong all these years and if your basing your opinion on the ballistics then why not say 338 lapua would be the best or 300 winny or or or.
Dead is dead... but there's a whole lot of situations that a .223 doesn't even allow you to try and make them dead... where a real caliber would be anchoring dogs. I'm not saying it wont kill coyotes... I'm saying it sucks hind teet because it can't cover all the bases like a bigger caliber can. Hell, I've killed (or witnessed) about 150 or so coyotes with a .223... but I also lost a lot of dogs... I even had dogs take multiple rounds and run off. I switched up to the .22/250 and killed (or witnessed) another 150 dogs or so... better than the .223... but still not what I was looking for... or used to seeing with the .25-06. On to the .243 and 6mm Rem... 99.5% of the run-offs stopped... coyotes were easier to hit (that laser beam 55 grainer is the schitt)... and probably 95% dropped on the spot... even with hits that were marginal. The .22 centerfires just don't offer enough performance on dogs... that's how it is. I guess if all you worry about is taking shots at coyotes for as little money as possible... and you don't really care about results... then sure... a .223 is the way to go. If you're going to make something go bang... you might as well have a little horsepower to go with it.
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 01:08:14 PM
All depends on how far your shooting and if your saving pelts to sell. Any thing under 400 yards is a dead dog with my .204 and no exit hole. I grab it instead of my 22-250 now.
That's on what... 10 dogs... jury is still out brotha... and if I recall... that didn't happen the first time or two... now did it? I know the 40 grainers are better medicine... but lets wait for a sample a little larger than 10, I know you'll get there... you're a coyote slayin' animal!
By the way... thanks for not killing all my Moses Lake are dogs!
Post by: wastickslinger on February 02, 2009, 01:16:22 PM
All depends on how far your shooting and if your saving pelts to sell. Any thing under 400 yards is a dead dog with my .204 and no exit hole. I grab it instead of my 22-250 now.
That's on what... 10 dogs... jury is still out brotha... and if I recall... that didn't happen the first time or two... now did it? I know the 40 grainers are better medicine... but lets wait for a sample a little larger than 10, I know you'll get there... you're a coyote slayin' animal!
By the way... thanks for not killing all my Moses Lake are dogs!
Are you saving pelts?
Post by: trotterlg on February 02, 2009, 01:18:56 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on February 02, 2009, 01:19:45 PM
I get a kick out of polls and statements that refer to "the best". So much depends on your criteria. Is it pure balistics, availibility of ammo, availability of bullets, etc? Of the guns listed I voted 223 just for the blend of performance, availability, and affortability. As a general rule most of the 22-25 cal center fires are gonna do the job just fine. The 22 cal stuff IMO is more versitile overall as a varmit gun (not strickly coyotes) from the sense of just not wanting to bang away w/ a 24 or 25 cals on ground squirrels.
This one seems pretty specific to me... BEST CALIBER FOR COYOTE HUNTING. The question doesn't ask 'most economical coyote caliber' or 'best varmint/coyote caliber'... not even 'most widely distributed coyote caliber'... it implys nothing about saving fur, calling, road hunting, glassing, baiting, etc.
Why did I state .243/6mm? Because it is the best... how do I know? Hundreds of coyotes were harmed in the name of science. Emperical evidence has shown the 6mms absolutely dominate ANY of the .22 centerfires... almost no run-offs, superior down-range performance, superior trajectorys, superior projectiles, etc. If given a shot at a coyote... under nearly any field condition... I refuse to believe that anyone in their right mind would rather have a .22/250... than a .243 loaded with 55-70 grain bullets.
So why not a 7mm mag, 300win mag, 338 win mag. Those will knock em down too right? I think even better than a .243 or 6mm. But the one I shoot with my 7mm usually have a basketball size exit hole.
Post by: wastickslinger on February 02, 2009, 01:25:24 PM
All depends on how far your shooting and if your saving pelts to sell. Any thing under 400 yards is a dead dog with my .204 and no exit hole. I grab it instead of my 22-250 now.
That's on what... 10 dogs... jury is still out brotha... and if I recall... that didn't happen the first time or two... now did it? I know the 40 grainers are better medicine... but lets wait for a sample a little larger than 10, I know you'll get there... you're a coyote slayin' animal!
By the way... thanks for not killing all my Moses Lake are dogs!
Were trying to kill em all but those things populate so fast we cant keep up. :chuckle:
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 01:46:35 PM
So why not a 7mm mag, 300win mag, 338 win mag. Those will knock em down too right? I think even better than a .243 or 6mm. But the one I shoot with my 7mm usually have a basketball size exit hole.
Actually... they don't. I saw 3 shot this weekend with the .300 RUM running 208 AMaxs at 3200... all 3 of them moved at least 15 yards after the shot... this seems like a common occurance with anything bigger than about a 7 mag. Plus... you don't get the velocity... and as a .204 guy... you know how nice that is. I think the .243/6mm are superior to even my beloved .25-06 for pure coyote medicine... I just like the performance I get on deer with the .25... that's why I shoot it. AND... the recoil level on the big guns doesn't let you watch what happens with the shot. I'm only so convinced of the superiority of the 6mms... because I've been there... done that. I've killed coyotes with everything from the .17 HMR to the .375 H&H... they all worked to some degree... the 6mms and the big .25 just plain work better than anything I've shot... and we're talking about many , many, many more coyotes than the 10 shot with your .204 (which I think I killed a few coyotes with... I only recovered one though... and that was after switching to the 40 grainers like you). Truth be told... I'll shoot a coyote with anything I happen to have... hell, I've pulled over and thrown rocks at them because I didn't have a gun... but I definately have a healthy respect for the tenacity and toughness of coyotes... twenty plus years of hunting them has galvanized this belief... and my choice of caliber reflects these observations.
Post by: wastickslinger on February 02, 2009, 01:51:52 PM
Wow so your like the Jim Shockey of the coyote industry. Do you have many, many, many, pictures too.So why not a 7mm mag, 300win mag, 338 win mag. Those will knock em down too right? I think even better than a .243 or 6mm. But the one I shoot with my 7mm usually have a basketball size exit hole.
Actually... they don't. I saw 3 shot this weekend with the .300 RUM running 208 AMaxs at 3200... all 3 of them moved at least 15 yards after the shot... this seems like a common occurance with anything bigger than about a 7 mag. Plus... you don't get the velocity... and as a .204 guy... you know how nice that is. I think the .243/6mm are superior to even my beloved .25-06 for pure coyote medicine... I just like the performance I get on deer with the .25... that's why I shoot it. AND... the recoil level on the big guns doesn't let you watch what happens with the shot. I'm only so convinced of the superiority of the 6mms... because I've been there... done that. I've killed coyotes with everything from the .17 HMR to the .375 H&H... they all worked to some degree... the 6mms and the big .25 just plain work better than anything I've shot... and we're talking about many , many, many more coyotes than the 10 shot with your .204 (which I think I killed a few coyotes with... I only recovered one though... and that was after switching to the 40 grainers like you). Truth be told... I'll shoot a coyote with anything I happen to have... hell, I've pulled over and thrown rocks at them because I didn't have a gun... but I definately have a healthy respect for the tenacity and toughness of coyotes... twenty plus years of hunting them has galvanized this belief... and my choice of caliber reflects these observations.
Post by: jjhunter on February 02, 2009, 02:02:25 PM
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 02:03:22 PM
Here's a picture of one day back in 2005... that's about as many coyotes as you've killed with your .204... all killed with 55 grain Noslers in the 6mm Rem.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi352.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr325%2Fdogdownproductions%2Ftruckdogs-1.jpg&hash=8780b50dde748e1c27c2d4358e16bc07fd5966e6)
Post by: ivarhusa on February 02, 2009, 02:05:45 PM
Post by: dbllunger on February 02, 2009, 02:06:41 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on February 02, 2009, 02:12:32 PM
Josh and Stick....keep at it enjoying the banter. Can we get a pick of who's yellow mark is farthest in the snow? :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle::chuckle:
Post by: jjhunter on February 02, 2009, 02:12:47 PM
Post by: MuleySniper on February 02, 2009, 02:13:13 PM
MS
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 02:18:50 PM
Votes don't lie, if Hussien can be president, the 22-250 can be king of the 'yote calibers :chuckle: :chuckle:
And that makes it ok? You can keep Obama and your 22/250... I guess that makes the .204 Nancy Pelosi right?
Post by: wastickslinger on February 02, 2009, 02:24:25 PM
Post by: 509er on February 02, 2009, 02:27:58 PM
22-250 gets my vote for just killing coyotes!
Post by: JoshT on February 02, 2009, 02:29:53 PM
So, I'll rephrase... the best "coyote caliber" is the .243/6mm Rem... period. The best usable coyote pelt saving caliber is the .204... debatable, but that's what I'd shoot... and I'd be pretty particular about shot placement.
Post by: AWS on February 02, 2009, 02:36:48 PM
AWS
Post by: woodywsu on February 02, 2009, 02:41:31 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on February 02, 2009, 03:19:47 PM
I voted .243/6mm. But I don't care about hides.
Post by: dbllunger on February 02, 2009, 03:30:02 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 02, 2009, 04:03:30 PM
with a .22 centerfire you can hunt up to a cougar. . .no deer. . .with sub .22 centerfire you cannot shoot cougar. . .
. . .with a .22 centerfire you can hunt coyotes year round with only a small game license. . .with anything bigger than a .22 centerfire you need to have a big game license and a tag for whatever the current big game season is in order to hunt during a big game season. . .
. . .this and availabilitry were why I decided on a .22-250 vs. a .204 Ruger or a .243 Winchester. . .just something else to keep in mind
. . .I'm with JoshT on the 6mm/243, but I bought a .22-250 for a coyote gun. . .I will probably get a 6mm family for my next rifle though. . .
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on February 02, 2009, 04:06:49 PM
.270 :chuckle:
Post by: Bofire on February 02, 2009, 04:14:01 PM
I get a kick out of polls and statements that refer to "the best". So much depends on your criteria. Is it pure balistics, availibility of ammo, availability of bullets, etc? Of the guns listed I voted 223 just for the blend of performance, availability, and affortability. As a general rule most of the 22-25 cal center fires are gonna do the job just fine. The 22 cal stuff IMO is more versitile overall as a varmit gun (not strickly coyotes) from the sense of just not wanting to bang away w/ a 24 or 25 cals on ground squirrels.
This one seems pretty specific to me... BEST CALIBER FOR COYOTE HUNTING. The question doesn't ask 'most economical coyote caliber' or 'best varmint/coyote caliber'... not even 'most widely distributed coyote caliber'... it implys nothing about saving fur, calling, road hunting, glassing, baiting, etc.
Why did I state .243/6mm? Because it is the best... how do I know? Hundreds of coyotes were harmed in the name of science. Emperical evidence has shown the 6mms absolutely dominate ANY of the .22 centerfires... almost no run-offs, superior down-range performance, superior trajectorys, superior projectiles, etc. If given a shot at a coyote... under nearly any field condition... I refuse to believe that anyone in their right mind would rather have a .22/250... than a .243 loaded with 55-70 grain bullets.
Would you mind providing me a link to any of these studies please. thank you.
Carl
Post by: shoot-em-dead on February 02, 2009, 05:32:28 PM
Post by: CastleRocker on February 02, 2009, 06:38:23 PM
Post by: 509er on February 02, 2009, 06:41:51 PM
Post by: trotterlg on February 02, 2009, 07:28:24 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on February 03, 2009, 01:13:40 AM
Post by: MHWASH on February 03, 2009, 05:53:51 AM
Post by: Intruder on February 03, 2009, 08:31:47 AM
My point was really centered more on the idea that people get hung up thinking that 1 particular cal or 1 particular make or 1 particular bullet is some how the key or the "best"... be it yotes, deer, elk, whatever. To take the .243 discussion to the next level, why not wildcat it? Some of the BR stuff is faster shooting, more accurate, more efficient burning powder, etc. That surely makes it the better, right? How far do you want to take it? That was really my point. For 75% or more of the folks out there, they can't shoot the difference between a 222, 223, 22-250 or a .243. So getting hung up on trying to determine the best is often largely an academic discussion.
Post by: JoshT on February 03, 2009, 11:25:24 AM
Some of the BR stuff is faster shooting, more accurate, more efficient burning powder, etc. That surely makes it the better, right? How far do you want to take it? That was really my point. For 75% or more of the folks out there, they can't shoot the difference between a 222, 223, 22-250 or a .243. So getting hung up on trying to determine the best is often largely an academic discussion.
None of the BR stuff is faster... 6ppc, 6br, 6xc... all slower, and almost all of them have some feeding issues in bolt guns. Any round in the .243, 6mm Rem, .240 Roy, .243wssm, any of those cases AI'd, etc... is the cat's meow for coyotes. I don't doubt that a .22/250 is a great coyote round... I've killed a ton of dogs with one... I'm just saying that anything a .22/250 can do... a big 6 can do better. So, for all of you who say the .22/250 is the best... you're simply making my point for me. 55 grainer at 3800 vs 55 grainer at 4k+... if one is great... the other is greater. For what it's worth... when the 6mm Rem. barrel is shot out on my 700 BDL-V... I'll screw on a 6mm/250 pipe... that way... we'll all be right!
I concur that any of the "best" stuff is mostly academic... but hey... that's the fun in these discussions.
Post by: Lowedog on February 03, 2009, 11:39:00 AM
The best point made on this thread is that any caliber under .243 is legal to hunt with year round regardless of what big game season may be open where you are hunting and you can still hunt cougar with the .22 caliber center fires.
-Lowedog
Post by: woodswalker on February 03, 2009, 12:04:11 PM
Post by: jjhunter on February 03, 2009, 12:10:33 PM
Post by: trotterlg on February 03, 2009, 06:55:31 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 03, 2009, 07:13:28 PM
. . .you circumvent needing a big game license and tag by hunting coyotes with a .22 centerfire or smaller. . .but you can legally hunt a cougar with a .22 centerfire. . .hope that's clear as mud
Post by: trotterlg on February 03, 2009, 09:55:54 PM
Post by: FALFire on February 03, 2009, 10:57:58 PM
That would be incorrect. . .it would be illegal to hunt coyote with a .24 centerfire during any big game season that you don't hold a valid tag for the big game season that is currently open. . .
. . .you circumvent needing a big game license and tag by hunting coyotes with a .22 centerfire or smaller. . .but you can legally hunt a cougar with a .22 centerfire. . .hope that's clear as mud
That is not how the State Game laws read. Below is copied directly from the game laws, read it carefully.
1. Modern Firearm Regulations
Rifles: Big game, except cougar, must be
hunted with a minimum of 24 caliber (6mm)
centerfire rifle. Cougar may be hunted with
22 caliber centerfire rifle. Rimfire rifles are
not legal for big game.
Handguns: Big game, except cougar, may
be hunted with handguns with a minimum
barrel length of 4 inches per manufacturers
specification, and fire a minimum 24 caliber
centerfire cartridge. Cougar may be hunted
with 22 caliber centerfire handgun. Rimfire
handguns are not legal for big game.
Shotguns: Deer, bear, and cougar may be
hunted with 20 gauge to 10 gauge shotguns
shooting slugs or #1 or larger buckshot.
Other big game may be hunted with a 10 or
12 gauge shotgun using slugs
Hunting during modern firearm deer or
elk seasons: You may not hunt wildlife during
any modern firearm deer or elk season, with any
firearm 24 caliber or larger or containing slugs
or buckshot for big game, unless you have a
valid license, permit and tag for one of the following:
deer, elk, black bear, cougar, mountain
goat, bighorn sheep, or moose. During any
modern firearm deer or elk season, it is illegal to
hunt any wildlife after legal hunting hours.
So the way I read it, is you are required to have a valid license and valid big game tag for ANY big game species during any modern firearm deer or elk season. And it states that Cougar MAY be hunted with 22 centerfire (May) being the key word here.
It does not state that one must have a valid deer tag to hunt coyotes with a 24+ caliber during MFdeer season IT READS any BIG GAME TAG.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 03, 2009, 11:19:22 PM
So the way I read it, is you are required to have a valid license and valid big game tag for ANY big game species during any modern firearm deer or elk season. And it states that Cougar MAY be hunted with 22 centerfire (May) being the key word here.
It does not state that one must have a valid deer tag to hunt coyotes with a 24+ caliber during MFdeer season IT READS any BIG GAME TAG.
[/quote]
No it states that you have to have a valid big game license and tag for whatever big game season is open to hunt with a centerfire over .24. . .so if you are using anything .24 and larger you had better have a big game license and a valid tag for whatever big game season is open. . .otherwise you are gonna get hosed by the man. . .
. . .semantics was my job for the last 10 years. . .
Post by: tlbradford on February 03, 2009, 11:25:32 PM
I love the .204. I have shot over a 100 with every available factory round and have recovered every single one that was hit. No runners, very few spinners.
JoshT. Before that I shot everything with a .25-06. It did 10 times the damage to coyotes, but did not kill them as quickly as a .204. I have no idea where or what you were using when you had all those runners. Maybe you had too aggressive of a twist rate for the bullet weight you were using so you had bullets coming apart too easy?
Anyway, all those calibers will kill them just fine, but I get tired of hearing people bag on the .204. I would not hesitate to shoot a cougar with the .204 either. I wouldn't tell the warden but I am sure it would die just the same as a .22 caliber.
Post by: bowhunterforever on February 04, 2009, 12:17:13 AM
Post by: FALFire on February 04, 2009, 06:00:56 AM
So the way I read it, is you are required to have a valid license and valid big game tag for ANY big game species during any modern firearm deer or elk season. And it states that Cougar MAY be hunted with 22 centerfire (May) being the key word here.
It does not state that one must have a valid deer tag to hunt coyotes with a 24+ caliber during MFdeer season IT READS any BIG GAME TAG.
No it states that you have to have a valid big game license and tag for whatever big game season is open to hunt with a centerfire over .24. . .so if you are using anything .24 and larger you had better have a big game license and a valid tag for whatever big game season is open. . .otherwise you are gonna get hosed by the man. . .
. . .semantics was my job for the last 10 years. . .
[/quote]
So you are saying, I need a deer tag to hunt coyotes during deer season, then a elk tag to hunt coyotes during elk season, etc. etc. even if I am not hunting any one of these animals?
I'm not reading that in the description of the laws I quoted directly from the hunting regs.
Semantics is one thing, which is the meaning of a word and that which varies in interpetation. In criminal court, the law written, is the law enforced, it is not open for interpetation by onlookers.
...Law Enforcement was my job for the last 24 years...
Post by: MHWASH on February 04, 2009, 06:12:00 AM
Post by: FALFire on February 04, 2009, 07:02:46 AM
To be safe just buy the bear, cougar combo and you should be safe. I check the regs and between the two this would allow you to hunt August thru March. You might get hasseled for bear hunting the Palouse during deer season, but you would be legal.
Hey Matt,
How ya doing?
That is the very reason I purchased a cougar tag.
You see, when the deer or elk tag is filled, it becomes invalid, (only one deer per tag) which then puts you in violation of the state game laws for hunting with a 24 caliber for coyotes during modern firearm deer or elk seasons. I have no real desire to take a cougar, so the tag will likely never be filled, therefore it's valid throughout the entire deer and elk seasons.
Not to mention, the law only applies to the game unit in which you are hunting that is open for deer or elk seasons. If the game unit is closed to deer or elk, then it becomes illegal to hunt those species anyway, moot point.
Post by: 280win on February 04, 2009, 07:08:37 AM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 04, 2009, 07:40:49 AM
. . .I didn't write the laws. . .I'm just reading them. . .that's why I don't use a .24 centerfire or larger for coyote hunting. . .then I don't have to worry about it at all. . .
Post by: FALFire on February 04, 2009, 08:23:48 AM
Yes. . .a cougar tag would work. . .I didn't mean you had to buy a tag for every single season. . .you just have to have an unfilled tag that is valid for the time period/area that you are in. . .
. . .I didn't write the laws. . .I'm just reading them. . .that's why I don't use a .24 centerfire or larger for coyote hunting. . .then I don't have to worry about it at all. . .
Exactly my original point.
I didn't write them either, just merely enforced them and sometimes it's like :bash:
Post by: ivarhusa on February 04, 2009, 02:04:13 PM
Post by: alanger on February 04, 2009, 03:19:52 PM
I've got a few... most were lost in a spooky fire... along with my 6/284 and some other stuff I really wish I had back. Truth is... for a long time I wasn't much of a recovery and hero picture kind of guy, I just liked hunting and shooting coyotes. I didn't shoot all the coyotes in my massive sample of terminal ballistics... but I was there... and I saw what happend. There was about 15 years between high school and kids... when that's about all I did was hunt coyotes. I hunt deer a little... and bears a little... but like I said, coyotes are what I love to hunt. I've personally only shot a couple hundred. Besides... if was Jim Shockey... I'd have shot them all with a muzzle loader!
Here's a picture of one day back in 2005... that's about as many coyotes as you've killed with your .204... all killed with 55 grain Noslers in the 6mm Rem.
???
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi352.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr325%2Fdogdownproductions%2Ftruckdogs-1.jpg&hash=8780b50dde748e1c27c2d4358e16bc07fd5966e6)
jeezus
i wish that could happen this weekend. but hey anything is possible. ???
Post by: Gutpile on February 04, 2009, 03:36:50 PM
Post by: AWS on February 04, 2009, 03:52:05 PM
AWS
Post by: deaddog on February 04, 2009, 04:34:42 PM
I think that there is a lot of useful info on this post. It is interesting to look at everyone's experience and logic and see what has worked for them and why. A thread like this will always contain a lot of B.S., but if you read the entire thing, you should come away with a few points that may help you make a more informed decision when the time comes to buy a new 'yote rifle.hup a 22-250. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: alanger on February 04, 2009, 04:37:41 PM
Post by: tlbradford on February 04, 2009, 04:44:20 PM
Hey tlbradford, Whats the best 204 factory load you like best for yotes and how do you like the 45 gr hornady's? Whats your farthest DRT so far?
For 95% of my shooting the 32 grain vmax drops them in their tracks for a factory load, but was not fur friendly over 250 yards. I did not like the 45 grain hornady's but I used factory ammo when testing them. Shot 40 rounds of it, Hit 34, and all shots were a pass-thru except two that were runners going away over 300 yards. I do think they would be better if you could handload and get them moving a little faster and expanding quicker, but I have never tried it. They may make a big mess at close range :dunno: The 35 grain bergers are my favorite for a balance between saving fur and killing power. My longest DRT was an 732 yard prayer on a drive-by with the 35 grain berger. If I am calling I rarely try a shot over 400 yards. I would rather try to call them back than lob lead at them as they run.
Post by: 509er on February 04, 2009, 07:10:36 PM
Post by: jjhunter on February 04, 2009, 07:18:28 PM
Post by: firecrotch on February 04, 2009, 08:22:04 PM
Post by: MHWASH on February 04, 2009, 09:12:17 PM
Hey Matt,
How ya doing?
Been doing great Gary. I've been hunting the last three weekends, can't ask for more.
Post by: tlbradford on February 04, 2009, 09:19:07 PM
Post by: jjhunter on February 05, 2009, 08:10:04 AM
Post by: FALFire on February 05, 2009, 11:25:39 AM
Nothing to it, I had a 733 yard kill with my 17 HMR, in 40 mph wind................ while it was raining.................at night.......................shooting off hand..................with a C-cell flashlight :dunno:
No problem :P
Post by: jjhunter on February 05, 2009, 11:49:10 AM
Post by: FALFire on February 05, 2009, 01:30:03 PM
I told him he was dreamin' and that it has no energy. He gave me a real blank :o look and said "No, it goes 2000 fps" I told him he needed to go back and read up on ballistics and if he decided to attempt suicide, just be sure there are a couple other hunters with you that are armed with 300 Win Mags! :bdid:
Post by: jjhunter on February 05, 2009, 02:45:21 PM
Post by: mossback91 on February 05, 2009, 02:48:13 PM
Post by: tlbradford on February 05, 2009, 03:21:46 PM
I am also a big believer in maximizing the destructive damage to the vital organs. So if you guys want to talk about ftlbs being the decider on killing animals, then you are dead wrong.
Post by: jjhunter on February 05, 2009, 03:54:00 PM
Post by: tlbradford on February 05, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
Post by: jdb on February 05, 2009, 05:27:44 PM
Post by: FALFire on February 05, 2009, 06:44:05 PM
I appreciate that jj. Graduated Valedicktorian :chuckle: Sorry, for being grumpy. It happens when someone implies you're a liar.
Well, actually I don't think anyone is lying, but when you have a bullet that drops somewhere around 150 inches at or near 750 yards and that bullet is only producing approximately 70-80 foot pounds of energy at or below 1000 FPS, it's really unlikely that it was an aimed shot. More like "WOW, I can't believe it and you won't either" kinda shot.
Now, I can tell ya for sure those things can and have happened. Heck once I shot a bird in flight about 100 yards up with my 25-06 and I had two witnesses, no one else will believe it, but it's actually very true. Another time I shot a duck in mid-flight over a pond about 5 feet off the water with a 22 lever gun. Made some pretty wild shots on running jackrabbits with my Ruger Super Blackhawk a bunch of years back too. So, I know for sure, those once in awhile shots can happen.
Sometimes, I just like to get a reaction. Ya know, you show some of your colors when you play the game, but you show all of your colors when you loose the game. I guess it's easier to just tell people to Shut The F Up and move on, especially when you are not face to face.
Don't be offended, it's all in fun. Now go have a doughnut and relax :chuckle:
By the way you don't really believe that I made that shot with my 17HMR do ya :yike:
Cause it really wasn't raining, more like a sprinkle or two :dunno: :rolleyes:
Post by: h2ofowlr on February 05, 2009, 08:14:00 PM
Post by: tlbradford on February 05, 2009, 08:14:50 PM
My longest DRT was an 732 yard prayer on a drive-by with the 35 grain berger. If I am calling I rarely try a shot over 400 yards. I would rather try to call them back than lob lead at them as they run.
FALFire, without getting all puffed up about it, I don't say anything on here I wouldn't say to someone in person. I put my original quote in bold since it sounds like you didn't read it too clearly the first time.
Post by: bobcat on February 05, 2009, 11:18:26 PM
Post by: deaddog on February 06, 2009, 08:58:32 AM
I haven't read ALL of this but I am here to say the BEST coyote cartridge is definitely the 223! And I don't even own one. All I have is my 270, and in the future I might borrow my wife's 243. :) The last coyote I killed was with a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with BB shot.:yeah:
Post by: dontgetcrabs on February 06, 2009, 03:18:30 PM
Post by: alanger on February 06, 2009, 04:17:14 PM
i wanna try out mossback's 22-250 before i buy one. they do seem like great guns..
what's the caliber you all have killed the most with??? :dunno:
:hunter:
Post by: Gutpile on February 06, 2009, 04:18:16 PM
Post by: 509er on February 06, 2009, 04:19:46 PM
Quote
what's the caliber you all have killed the most with???
Most of mine have been shot with my 300win mag.
Post by: mossback91 on February 06, 2009, 04:23:30 PM
Post by: alanger on February 06, 2009, 04:26:30 PM
i am thinking about hitting 2 spots this weekend. with my 17 hmr and 7mm-08 look around i guess.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 06, 2009, 05:39:42 PM
. . .I would like to eventually get an AR-15 as a second coyote gun so I may have one of each. . .or I may rechamber/rebarrel one or the other of them for a different caliber as well. . .
Post by: dontgetcrabs on February 06, 2009, 05:53:24 PM
Post by: Wile E. Hunter on February 11, 2009, 03:59:14 PM
732 yard kill with a 35 grain bullet :rolleyes:I think you'd be hard pressed to name one caliber "best" for coyotes. I shoot the .223 in a 24" bull barrelled AR, a Swift in a 26 3/4" bull barrelled 40XBKS, and a .25-06 in a Sendero. I love all three for different reasons. Always see the ones just below the horizon when I have the .223 (not enough juice). Always see the 60 yd. dogs with the .25-06 (too much juice!). Call in the doubles and triples when I have the Swift (single shot). One caliber that does it all in all situations? If I knew of it, I'd have it. BUT, when it's all said and done, that quote is DAMNED FUNNY!!! No matter what rifle you're packin' that guy's gotta be fun to hunt with.
Nothing to it, I had a 733 yard kill with my 17 HMR, in 40 mph wind................ while it was raining.................at night.......................shooting off hand..................with a C-cell flashlight :dunno:
No problem :P
Post by: FALFire on February 11, 2009, 05:17:57 PM
732 yard kill with a 35 grain bullet :rolleyes:I think you'd be hard pressed to name one caliber "best" for coyotes. I shoot the .223 in a 24" bull barrelled AR, a Swift in a 26 3/4" bull barrelled 40XBKS, and a .25-06 in a Sendero. I love all three for different reasons. Always see the ones just below the horizon when I have the .223 (not enough juice). Always see the 60 yd. dogs with the .25-06 (too much juice!). Call in the doubles and triples when I have the Swift (single shot). One caliber that does it all in all situations? If I knew of it, I'd have it. BUT, when it's all said and done, that quote is DAMNED FUNNY!!! No matter what rifle you're packin' that guy's gotta be fun to hunt with.
Nothing to it, I had a 733 yard kill with my 17 HMR, in 40 mph wind................ while it was raining.................at night.......................shooting off hand..................with a C-cell flashlight :dunno:
No problem :P
Thanks Wile E Hunter for the comment. It was meant to be funny and, with all due respect, never intended to sound like I was calling anyone a liar.
I can't agree more with you on your statement regarding best caliber for coyotes, simply because there IS no best caliber. What works for a guy in the thick brush of the coast may simply not due for us wide open wheat field hunters on the east side of the state. A few times I have needed a shotgun, but never take one to my stands. On more occassions than not, I need a flat shooting tack driver for those shots well beyond 600 yards, just wished I could hit something that far away. The other day my neighbor and I went to a ranch were we figured our nearest shot would be close to 400 yards, turned out the two shots we did make were well under 200 yards, easy medicine with a 223.
So I never get caught up in what is the best caliber nonsense, there are just too many varibles to contend with and to each their own for likes and dislikes and more importantly their needs. I don't hunt for fur, I just want them dead to help protect the livestock. But those that want to cash in on fur or perhaps wish to mount a nice kill, then they should pick accordingly.
Post by: flipperball on February 12, 2009, 08:16:58 AM
Post by: Huntbear on February 12, 2009, 09:11:40 AM
Post by: wackmaster on February 12, 2009, 03:18:39 PM
Post by: alanger on February 12, 2009, 10:29:07 PM
Post by: Slider on February 15, 2009, 01:48:18 PM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on February 15, 2009, 01:51:51 PM
if you don't want the hide, just aim center mass. if you do, just graze them on the head. no problem :IBCOOL:
Post by: alanger on February 15, 2009, 02:25:53 PM
Post by: Ricochet on February 15, 2009, 02:36:34 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on February 15, 2009, 04:13:46 PM
Post by: 509er on February 15, 2009, 04:40:44 PM
anyone on here grazed one on the bottom of the stomach and the gutsfalling out?? :yike:
Our crew has "gutted" a couple this year
Post by: Ricochet on February 15, 2009, 04:48:42 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on February 15, 2009, 04:55:55 PM
Post by: Gutpile on February 15, 2009, 05:00:11 PM
anyone on here grazed one on the bottom of the stomach and the gutsfalling out?? :yike:
Our crew had "gutted" a couple this year
I've blown a few open. Usually chest shots with the 30-06 but did one with the 220 swift this year.
Post by: alanger on February 15, 2009, 07:25:39 PM
lets here it mossback
Post by: alanger on February 18, 2009, 08:06:05 AM
Post by: wastickslinger on February 18, 2009, 10:32:26 PM
anyone on here grazed one on the bottom of the stomach and the gutsfalling out?? :yike:
I have a sweet picture of one I gutted but dont think its appropriate for this site. It is sickkkk
Post by: dasbear on February 20, 2009, 12:05:22 AM
My vote/preferance