Post by: Bushcraft on May 25, 2016, 05:17:30 PM
If you happen to see a sickly looking lamb that looks like it's about dead, or one that died very recently, please notify a local WDFW bio immediately so nasal swabs or tissue samples can be taken and given to WSU for analysis.
Thank you!
Regards,
Allen
Post by: bobcat on May 25, 2016, 05:24:27 PM
Post by: bearpaw on May 25, 2016, 06:25:19 PM
Post by: X-Force on May 25, 2016, 06:42:44 PM
Domestic livestock?
Post by: mfswallace on May 25, 2016, 07:01:14 PM
I have it on good account that lambs may already be succumbing to pneumonia.
If you happen to see a sickly looking lamb that looks like it's about dead, or one that died very recently, please notify a local WDFW bio immediately so nasal swabs or tissue samples can be taken and given to WSU for analysis.
Thank you!
Regards,
Allen
Yeah let's leave it up to the 2 worst bio departments in the state :yike:
Hoof Rot, Cougar pops, Wolf lies....etc
Post by: Bushcraft on May 25, 2016, 08:18:38 PM
Which part of the state?
Yakima canyon just north of milepost 4.
Post by: Bushcraft on May 25, 2016, 08:24:18 PM
I wonder what is to blame?
Domestic livestock?
The latest theory is that their are probably so-called "super carriers" of the Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae bug that shed the disease. It's all but certain it was picked up from domestic animals.
Here's an interesting white paper on the topic:
http://emwh.org/pdf/wildlife%20disease/bighorn/Bighorn%20sheep%20pneumonia-%20Sorting%20out%20the%20cause.pdf
Regards,
Allen
Post by: Bushcraft on May 25, 2016, 08:29:41 PM
I have it on good account that lambs may already be succumbing to pneumonia.
If you happen to see a sickly looking lamb that looks like it's about dead, or one that died very recently, please notify a local WDFW bio immediately so nasal swabs or tissue samples can be taken and given to WSU for analysis.
Thank you!
Regards,
Allen
Yeah let's leave it up to the 2 worst bio departments in the state :yike:
Hoof Rot, Cougar pops, Wolf lies....etc
Mfswallace,
Do you have another agency or entity that's better equipped to try and determine A) the cause of death, and B) if it is Movi how to get rid of it in our state's
If so, we're all ears.
Regards,
Allen
Post by: mfswallace on May 25, 2016, 09:43:51 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 25, 2016, 09:51:33 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on May 25, 2016, 11:02:37 PM
I'm hoping to spend some time behind glass in the canyon this weekend looking things over. Carpool maybe? It's a pretty relaxing way to enjoy a cup or two of coffee on a Saturday or Sunday morning. The pic below is one my wife nabbed of me when I wasn't looking when I drug her over there once last year. I'll have my lab so hopefully the snakes won't be bad. Are you still on for the goat count?
Regards,
Allen
Post by: Bushcraft on May 25, 2016, 11:08:08 PM
I'll agree Dr Sri and Besser are great sheep bio's but hope that wdfw let's WSF run the study. Not much trust for wdfw and its political agendas that seem to override science... I was too quick to distrust all involved due to the issues with other species that they have imo seriously mishandled for political reasons.
All the more reason to work with them (WDFW) whenever possible AND hold their feet to the fire when necessary. If "we" aren't pushing them, you can't bet your bottom dollar the birds and butterfly crowd is!
Post by: Naches Sportsman on May 25, 2016, 11:08:39 PM
On another note, lots of little ones running around this year.
Post by: HUNTaHOLIC5 on May 25, 2016, 11:18:33 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on May 25, 2016, 11:26:49 PM
I think the clemans herd is at risk of something happening sometime soon with the big numbers. It ain't good when you have sheep half-way between the feeding station and rainier national park boundary. The state needs to build a big game fence on the forest boundary to keep them from where they shouldn't be. Taking away usfs grazing allotments isn't the issue.
On another note, lots of little ones running around this year.
Ty,
The science indicates otherwise in some cases. Juvenile rams wander off great distances and happily intermingle with domestic sheep, contracting the disease and then bring it back to introduce it in the wild sheep populations. it only takes one carrier to wipe out a huge percentage of a wild sheep population. To the extent that we can determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the domestic sheep (and goats) are the primary carrier/distribution host problem and then mandate that domestic sheep and goats that may come in contact with wild sheep be somehow certified Movi free (through some kind of inoculation), so much the better for the long term prospects of wild sheep population. We can put sheep on the mountain all we want, but it doesn't do a damn bit of good if they keep bumping into domestic carriers (or wild carriers) of the disease that flares up from time to time and kills 'em off.
And, like you say, making sure there are hard barriers to safeguard intermingling are an important in the mean time.
Regards,
Allen
Post by: X-Force on May 26, 2016, 04:46:43 AM
I wonder what is to blame?
Domestic livestock?
The latest theory is that their are probably so-called "super carriers" of the Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae bug that shed the disease. It's all but certain it was picked up from domestic animals.
Here's an interesting white paper on the topic:
http://emwh.org/pdf/wildlife%20disease/bighorn/Bighorn%20sheep%20pneumonia-%20Sorting%20out%20the%20cause.pdf
Regards,
Allen
I was trying to highlight the irony that bearpaw was trying to say it's a negative BHA wants to limit farming and ranching in wild areas in one thread and on the next thread where ranching is having a dramatic impact on wild sheep his response is "wow bummer :bash:".
We know what causes wild sheep pneumonia and its a shame with so much invested in wild sheep habitat, introduction, reintroduction, suplimentation, etc. that ranchers are still able to get/have grazing rights in, next to and around wild sheep populations. It's a bunch of bs that domestic sheep are grazing on public or private land, it doesn't matter they shouldn't be allowed near wild sheep.. :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on May 26, 2016, 06:32:47 AM
I think the clemans herd is at risk of something happening sometime soon with the big numbers. It ain't good when you have sheep half-way between the feeding station and rainier national park boundary. The state needs to build a big game fence on the forest boundary to keep them from where they shouldn't be. Taking away usfs grazing allotments isn't the issue.
On another note, lots of little ones running around this year.
Ty,
The science indicates otherwise in some cases. Juvenile rams wander off great distances and happily intermingle with domestic sheep, contracting the disease and then bring it back to introduce it in the wild sheep populations. it only takes one carrier to wipe out a huge percentage of a wild sheep population. To the extent that we can determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the domestic sheep (and goats) are the primary carrier/distribution host problem and then mandate that domestic sheep and goats that may come in contact with wild sheep be somehow certified Movi free (through some kind of inoculation), so much the better for the long term prospects of wild sheep population. We can put sheep on the mountain all we want, but it doesn't do a damn bit of good if they keep bumping into domestic carriers (or wild carriers) of the disease that flares up from time to time and kills 'em off.
And, like you say, making sure there are hard barriers to safeguard intermingling are an important in the mean time.
Regards,
Allen
He's not Ty.
Post by: jackelope on May 26, 2016, 07:11:36 AM
Josh,Allen-
I'm hoping to spend some time behind glass in the canyon this weekend looking things over. Carpool maybe? It's a pretty relaxing way to enjoy a cup or two of coffee on a Saturday or Sunday morning. The pic below is one my wife nabbed of me when I wasn't looking when I drug her over there once last year. I'll have my lab so hopefully the snakes won't be bad. Are you still on for the goat count?
Regards,
Allen
Not going to be around this weekend. I need to drag D over there one of these days though.
Post by: Bushcraft on May 26, 2016, 07:43:01 AM
I think the clemans herd is at risk of something happening sometime soon with the big numbers. It ain't good when you have sheep half-way between the feeding station and rainier national park boundary. The state needs to build a big game fence on the forest boundary to keep them from where they shouldn't be. Taking away usfs grazing allotments isn't the issue.
On another note, lots of little ones running around this year.
Ty,
The science indicates otherwise in some cases. Juvenile rams wander off great distances and happily intermingle with domestic sheep, contracting the disease and then bring it back to introduce it in the wild sheep populations. it only takes one carrier to wipe out a huge percentage of a wild sheep population. To the extent that we can determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the domestic sheep (and goats) are the primary carrier/distribution host problem and then mandate that domestic sheep and goats that may come in contact with wild sheep be somehow certified Movi free (through some kind of inoculation), so much the better for the long term prospects of wild sheep population. We can put sheep on the mountain all we want, but it doesn't do a damn bit of good if they keep bumping into domestic carriers (or wild carriers) of the disease that flares up from time to time and kills 'em off.
And, like you say, making sure there are hard barriers to safeguard intermingling are an important in the mean time.
Regards,
Allen
He's not Ty.
Crap. Obviously I had someone else in mind. I suppose that's what I get for staying up too late!
Post by: Gringo31 on May 26, 2016, 11:55:29 AM
I don't know crap about sheep, but why wouldn't the antibodies then transfer to the lambs through the colostrum?
Post by: ramslam on May 26, 2016, 03:14:52 PM
You're right on it, Gringo, why aren't the lambs benefiting from the ewes?? That little mystery is next on Besser's research goals. Besser and Frances Cassirer have made some great strides. A lot has been learned, MOvi wasn't even on the radar 10 years ago.
The March affirmation by the Ninth Circuit of the wool grower's lost appeal is critical. Among other things, the court ruled even though the "precise mechanisms" aren't exactly known, separation must occur to protect the health of wild sheep! That is an important sentence we all need to know as we discuss this topic wth the public and/or domestic producers.
Post by: Bushcraft on May 27, 2016, 06:46:35 PM
I was told that a fairly well known photographer has taken the time this Spring to identify (and name) 63 adult ewes in South Umtanum via photos. Those 63 ewes produced 45 lambs that could be identified. So far, only 10-11 of those lambs are still alive. Coughing/sick lambs were first seen April 20th with deaths by May 1. Currently a fair number of lamb carcasses on the ground. This fellow has approximately 77 pages of notes on individual sheep and timing of lamb drop/death. This is damn sad state of affairs, but his efforts are truly commendable.
Evidently there are similar reports from Mt. Baldy (SBC). No other info as yet on attrition of other sub-herds.
We have GOT to solve this problem, and soon.
Regards,
Allen
Post by: 180-GRAIN on May 27, 2016, 07:57:54 PM
Post by: Naches Sportsman on May 27, 2016, 07:59:18 PM
It will be cheaper in the long run fencing them in that taking the USFS and BLM to court over grazing allotments.
The state introduced sheep in quite a few places and they need to deal with THEIR problem. It isn't the BLM, USFS, Nor the livestock owners' fault no matter how hard biologists across the west are trying to place the blame on them, especially in this state.
Either fence them in, or let nature take its course.
Post by: Timberstalker on May 27, 2016, 08:13:30 PM
Post by: coachcw on May 27, 2016, 08:16:36 PM