Post by: kglacken on June 14, 2016, 06:21:11 PM
However, there seems to be guys on here who pull decent blacktail from the nasty wet hillsides each year. Im looking to spark a conversation on how others like to do it. I tend to spend a lot of time covering a ton of ground and doing a lot of sitting and glassing. Whether it be constant hiking, or moving from landing to landing in the pickup and glassing, I have had good luck finding bucks, but haven't been able to find a real masher yet. Ill be 100% honest, I'm not much of a patient hunter. I like to move and "run and gun" so to speak, but I can change tactics if needed. Im curious on opinions. Do you like the high country? Thick reprod on steep hillsides? Sit and glass? Run and gun? Still hunt the timber? Do your tactics differ based on whether?
Im very confident in my abilities to find a legal buck, but this year I'm hoping to put a nice mature blacktail on the ground. I consider myself to be a decent hunter, but I'm always willing to listen and learn. I think there are so many hunters out there who are afraid to ask and admit that they are not experts! I plan to commit more to scouting and hanging cameras in my areas this year in hopes to find a mature buck and concentrate on that area. Hopefully we can get a good thread going on finding one of the most elusive animals in the U.S! Thanks in advance everyone! :tup:
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on June 14, 2016, 06:37:31 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on June 14, 2016, 06:49:28 PM
Here's a couple pictures of the type of units I hunt...the first 2 pics have a deer in them
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi799.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy275%2Fdeerhunter_98520%2FIMG_20151122_105933349_HDR_zpsu5khoc0u.jpg&hash=25310c81bdff7e48216a9d5a905319ec2dc59189) (http://s799.photobucket.com/user/deerhunter_98520/media/IMG_20151122_105933349_HDR_zpsu5khoc0u.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi799.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy275%2Fdeerhunter_98520%2FIMG_20151122_105747695_HDR_zpsnkkgiek2.jpg&hash=6992c40c96215350cbb0f38e4a416714292b0122) (http://s799.photobucket.com/user/deerhunter_98520/media/IMG_20151122_105747695_HDR_zpsnkkgiek2.jpg.html)
And this one is an ideal unit I like to hunt
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi799.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy275%2Fdeerhunter_98520%2FIMG_20151024_160301419_zpsatxil4bb.jpg&hash=bb06de756d54df8e6b74d4ad339273a976a0328a) (http://s799.photobucket.com/user/deerhunter_98520/media/IMG_20151024_160301419_zpsatxil4bb.jpg.html)
Post by: Pete112288 on June 14, 2016, 06:59:27 PM
Hope this helps a little. And I hope to see some other advice on here, chasing mature blacktails is one of those things you can not stop learning about.
Post by: grundy53 on June 14, 2016, 07:15:43 PM
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Post by: Boss .300 winmag on June 14, 2016, 07:19:10 PM
I did. :tup:
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on June 14, 2016, 07:21:16 PM
How many can spot the deer? ;)
I did. :tup:
I was asked how the hell i spotted both of them from guys standing next to me :chuckle:
Post by: EyeTooth on June 14, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Post by: Pete112288 on June 14, 2016, 07:37:48 PM
How many can spot the deer? ;)
I did. :tup:
I was asked how the hell i spotted both of them from guys standing next to me :chuckle:
I found the one in the first pic, not the second one though :chuckle:
Post by: Crunchy on June 14, 2016, 08:05:59 PM
I also hunt clearcuts that you can only see into from great distances like 500-800 yards. Any closer and you cannot see over the growth. Those are my favorite places to hunt, and most hunters don't even try or don't spend the time seriously glassing.
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on June 14, 2016, 08:09:06 PM
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Post by: Boss .300 winmag on June 14, 2016, 08:12:54 PM
I think I spotted both deer but need confirmation
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The first pic has a doe sitting above the white log center pic.
The second pic has a doe sitting below the stump middle pic at about five o'clock looking straight at the spotter. :tup:
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on June 14, 2016, 08:15:33 PM
Mature bucks chase before immature bucks.... hint
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on June 14, 2016, 08:17:05 PM
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on June 14, 2016, 08:17:22 PM
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Post by: Blcktaildreamer on June 14, 2016, 08:26:48 PM
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Post by: deerhunter_98520 on June 14, 2016, 08:28:12 PM
Once again, , the last few days of general deer, all day long... the bucks in lewis and Thurston county's will be searching for does.... period:yeah:
Mature bucks chase before immature bucks.... hint
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on June 14, 2016, 08:36:47 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi799.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy275%2Fdeerhunter_98520%2FIMG_20160614_203109_zps2elbnvvl.jpg&hash=fb12ceef490bc893881ab10c2c2fb271a8361ecb) (http://s799.photobucket.com/user/deerhunter_98520/media/IMG_20160614_203109_zps2elbnvvl.jpg.html)
Second one the doe is laying down with her head laying on her side...that's her right ear sticking up and her hind qtr to the right...it was about 500yds away
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi799.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy275%2Fdeerhunter_98520%2FIMG_20160614_203032_zpsao35a33w.jpg&hash=08afa65b194f9a9bc9bcc15dbb29b3cf59946a36) (http://s799.photobucket.com/user/deerhunter_98520/media/IMG_20160614_203032_zpsao35a33w.jpg.html)
Post by: davk on June 14, 2016, 10:45:40 PM
... mature bucks use use Clearcuts and openings, beyond popular belief.:yeah: The largest blacktail I have seen so far came out of the timber walked a few hundred yards straight down a forest road, then into a clear cut. From my experience hunting blacktails and whitetails, I have no hesitation in hunting open areas, old roads, etc. Ive seeen it while Im out there and it a lot in sign. They simply walk straight down the road. Seen it a lot even when there is little resistance along side the road(open fields, thin brush, etc.) ... they'll walk right down the road. Im sure they hunker down in thick brush though too. But I stick primarily to hunting edges. Tend to find the most concentrated sign there.
I personally try to hunt all day as well. That is usually a mix of sitting and still hunting to get off my ass. If I want to nap Ill just sleep on the ground for a bit and then keep going. Building a tarp similar to the Kifaru Sheep Tarp so I can get out of the rain a bit on my all day hunts. I think this is one of the bigger misses by a lot of people. After I got my deer this year I started scouting a new area. I had more deer, including nice bucks, on my camera between 10am-2pm than I had at night deep into December. Probably 4 to 1. Now I dont know if it exactly changed or since I moved my camera that I just picked up one of their night routes, but late December after I moved the camera it switch 1-4 day to night.
Post by: fishnfur on June 14, 2016, 11:20:42 PM
Big BT bucks are almost exclusively nocturnal and always secretive outside the rut. During this time, you have to be very good or very lucky to see a trophy buck in the middle of the day. That doesn't mean you shouldn't hunt the middle of the day though. They still stand up to pee and occasionally get a drink or eat a bit in the middle of the day. They just (normally) won't be traveling during the day unless there are hot does around. If you know where they live, you might just see one get up.
This is all a Boyd Iverson paraphrase.
Post by: BLR 243 on June 14, 2016, 11:45:17 PM
Post by: JeffRaines on June 15, 2016, 12:08:05 AM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on June 16, 2016, 05:45:41 PM
Hunt the last of October, hunt late, I mean till dark, dont head to your rig because its getting dark. Use your eyes and ears, use your EYES. Hunt with a lever action rifle for fast follow up shots, Love the rain, embrace the rain.Ware wool.10-11 o'clock in the am is a good time for buck in less pressured areas.Hunt alone.Dont walk erect when hunting the timber,bend @ the waist and look under, met several mature Blackies that way.Hunt the terrian I learned that from an old retired game warden.
Solid advice from a man that has killed some giant bucks!! Thanks Jeff, and luck this season. Jud
Post by: Tbob on June 16, 2016, 05:52:37 PM
Post by: Harbor_hunter on June 17, 2016, 11:54:18 AM
Post by: kglacken on June 18, 2016, 06:59:11 AM
Sort of off subject, but I did a mule deer hunt in Arizona and our guides told us at the end of the hunt that they have hunted with a ton of guys in the hunting industry, celebrities, top "professional" hunters and people from all over the world and they have never met anyone who could glass and spot animals like us. They were shocked at some of the deer we picked out of the canyons from a long ways away and ones that were very hidden. I think thats from training the eyes to find blacktail! :tup:
Post by: Bigshooter on June 18, 2016, 07:07:32 AM
For me there are about 3 days worth hunting, and you better be out there from daylight til dark. Use your binos. Hiking is not hunting... mature bucks use use Clearcuts and openings, beyond popular belief. "Boyd Iverson" RIP. Those 3 days aren't in late buck. HINT
:yeah:
I love it when the last 3 days of October start on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. If it's raining those last 3 days it's even better.
Post by: pope on June 18, 2016, 10:51:51 AM
Post by: DaveMonti on June 18, 2016, 03:18:59 PM
Post by: rasbo on June 18, 2016, 03:37:50 PM
Post by: predatorG on June 19, 2016, 08:54:50 AM
Post by: Eric M on June 19, 2016, 09:58:53 AM
How many can spot the deer? ;)First one was pretty easy. Not sure about the 2nd one. Looked at the "ear" but maybe my eyes are getting bad.
I did. :tup:
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 02, 2016, 12:49:19 PM
Post by: JDHasty on August 02, 2016, 01:30:57 PM
- Comfortable tree stands and blinds that you can spend many hours in (pay attention to this, warm feet are not feet that are moving around giving you away)
- Rub lines & scrapes
- Travel routes
- Good 7x42, 8x42, 7x50 or 8x56 binocular when in a stand.
- Rain & generally rotten weather days
- Move slowly as you think you can possibly move and then move half that fast when you still hunt. I use a 6x32 Vortex Viper binocular (discontinued, but you can still find them if you really look) when still hunting to keep bulk to a minimum. I am pretty bulky in my own right so I need all the help I can get there. The Leupold 6x30 Yosemite Porro is another dandy little binocular w/great depth of field and wide FOV, it is pretty inexpensive, waterproof & durable.
- Get up early and go to bed late - mid afternoons are good too. I used to nap from noon -> about 3:00 PM. I don't do that no mo. Bucks get up and move around about then.
- I reread Boyd Iverson's book every year about this time and sometimes reread Haugan, Terkla and Hanes books too, but I always reread Iverson's book about this time of year to remind myself of what I need to pay attention to
- Primos Can Call, I have never cold called a buck in w/one, but I will use one to get a buck to take a step toward me and give me a shot. Wait until they are looking away from you and then tip it a couple times. I suppose you could cold call a buck in w/one, I never have tried though.
Post by: pope on August 02, 2016, 03:03:58 PM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on August 02, 2016, 03:04:25 PM
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Post by: 2MANY on August 02, 2016, 03:14:24 PM
Pack in 10 miles.
Deer act like they once did.
Post by: JDHasty on August 02, 2016, 03:22:57 PM
Get yourself some top quality optics, and sit on 5-7 year old reprod. Glass, glass, glass. How I Hunt you are as good as your OPTICS!
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:yeah:
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 03, 2016, 10:58:07 AM
Post by: fishnfur on August 03, 2016, 11:50:39 AM
Seriously, a thousand hunters would give you a couple thousand answers to that question. It depends on how you like to hunt, how agile you are, what kind of shape you are in....etc.
If it were me, I'd try to determine the direction of the prevailing winds so that on any given day, you have a good chance of being able to enter your spot from down wind. Have back-up plans for entering from different areas if the wind is abnormal.
In the pre-season, I'd walk as much of the perimeter as possible, just inside the cut, to determine the areas that deer are using and where they are accessing the cut from. Alternatively, you can just glass from the top to find where the most deer congregate Walking the perimeter will be really difficult considering the terrain, so you may just want to focus on the south or southwest facing areas, where you would normally expect the deer to be in the fall.
Once you determine the areas with the most sign, you develop a plan based on whether you want to sit up high and glass for bucks then spot and stalk or shoot from distance, or still hunt the timber inside the edges.
Personally, I like the draws on the left side of the ridge that were not cut, and which appear to originate from a saddle in the ridge. There may be groups of does bedding in the upper regions of those draws which should have the bucks cruising through searching for hot does in the fall. Taking a stand above an intersection of trails in one of these draws might be productive. You might also consider working your way up/down through the draws looking for rub lines from last year. That would give you an excellent idea on where you should expect to find cruising bucks. :twocents:
Post by: JakeLand on August 03, 2016, 01:18:18 PM
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 03, 2016, 01:19:42 PM
Hey! That's my spot!!!Well I've only got 3 seasons of blacktail hunting under my belt, so 2000 answers couldn't hurt. I prefer archery but this season I'm gonna go with the modern tag. Broke my right heel bone at the end of May and have only been free of immobilizing devices for 2 weeks. I gotta do my body justice and let it heal, no September hills this year. I may not have a chance to pre-scout either.
Seriously, a thousand hunters would give you a couple thousand answers to that question. It depends on how you like to hunt, how agile you are, what kind of shape you are in....etc.
If it were me, I'd try to determine the direction of the prevailing winds so that on any given day, you have a good chance of being able to enter your spot from down wind. Have back-up plans for entering from different areas if the wind is abnormal.
In the pre-season, I'd walk as much of the perimeter as possible, just inside the cut, to determine the areas that deer are using and where they are accessing the cut from. Alternatively, you can just glass from the top to find where the most deer congregate Walking the perimeter will be really difficult considering the terrain, so you may just want to focus on the south or southwest facing areas, where you would normally expect the deer to be in the fall.
Once you determine the areas with the most sign, you develop a plan based on whether you want to sit up high and glass for bucks then spot and stalk or shoot from distance, or still hunt the timber inside the edges.
Personally, I like the draws on the left side of the ridge that were not cut, and which appear to originate from a saddle in the ridge. There may be groups of does bedding in the upper regions of those draws which should have the bucks cruising through searching for hot does in the fall. Taking a stand above an intersection of trails in one of these draws might be productive. You might also consider working your way up/down through the draws looking for rub lines from last year. That would give you an excellent idea on where you should expect to find cruising bucks. :twocents:
The approach I'm considering is to access from the bottom of the screenshot, moving up the main drainage on day #1, near the creek bottom cool thermals should still be moving downstream. I will look for trails coming off the hillside below the cut and if I find good sign, wait for a buck headed to water after chasing does in the cut. I won't move too far in on day 1. I plan to bivouac so I'll camp near the creek.
Day #2, I would like to be between the cut edge and the creek moving slowly up the drainage toward those uncut draws. Working towards the head of the drainage. Camp near the creek again.
Day #3, I would like to focus on the dark timber SW facing ridge opposite of the uncut draws. Still hunting through the timber.
Day #4, return to whichever zone where I found the most sign.
Post by: JDHasty on August 03, 2016, 01:28:18 PM
Post by: 2MANY on August 03, 2016, 01:28:40 PM
Post by: fishnfur on August 03, 2016, 01:37:32 PM
Blacktail can get nearly all the water they need from soft browse during the wet season - especially so if there are hunters in the woods. On average, the first heavy rains begin somewhere around the 10th of October. During a dry fall, you may find them still having to supplement their water at the creek bottoms or in the drainages, but betting your limited time in the woods on finding them traveling for water is probably a crap shoot. :twocents: (that's four cents now).
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 03, 2016, 01:49:02 PM
Post by: JakeLand on August 03, 2016, 06:14:13 PM
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 03, 2016, 08:41:21 PM
The last couple days of October I would be on those strips of timber that's where those bucks will be guaranteedYou said it twice, I'll take your advice!
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 03, 2016, 10:51:37 PM
Post by: chester on August 03, 2016, 11:12:35 PM
For bucks W of I-5, at an elevation of 1200 ft or less, how large of an area would they occupy throughout the year? How many square miles? If I found a buck tomorrow, do you think he'd travel farther than 5 miles in any direction from that spot to his "rut zone"?<1 sq mile , if you find him now he will be close by.
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Post by: BGLEMIN on August 03, 2016, 11:20:21 PM
Wow that's not far at all. I would've thought a buck would cruise further than that looking for receptive does.For bucks W of I-5, at an elevation of 1200 ft or less, how large of an area would they occupy throughout the year? How many square miles? If I found a buck tomorrow, do you think he'd travel farther than 5 miles in any direction from that spot to his "rut zone"?<1 sq mile , if you find him now he will be close by.
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Post by: DaveMonti on August 04, 2016, 07:33:31 AM
Wow that's not far at all. I would've thought a buck would cruise further than that looking for receptive does.For bucks W of I-5, at an elevation of 1200 ft or less, how large of an area would they occupy throughout the year? How many square miles? If I found a buck tomorrow, do you think he'd travel farther than 5 miles in any direction from that spot to his "rut zone"?<1 sq mile , if you find him now he will be close by.
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The bucks will remain solitary in their core area (about 1 square mile) until the rut kicks in during the last week of October or so. Up until that point, you won't see them out in the open during the day very much. You will have to hunt them in the timber along the trails they frequently use. Once rut kicks in, they will be on the move and may go miles searching for does. If you're bow hunting the early season, you won't find bucks cruising for does. That won't be a strategy you want to rely on.
Post by: fishnfur on August 04, 2016, 07:59:34 AM
Wow that's not far at all. I would've thought a buck would cruise further than that looking for receptive does.For bucks W of I-5, at an elevation of 1200 ft or less, how large of an area would they occupy throughout the year? How many square miles? If I found a buck tomorrow, do you think he'd travel farther than 5 miles in any direction from that spot to his "rut zone"?<1 sq mile , if you find him now he will be close by.
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Your question referred to their home range throughout the year, and was answered correctly - there are (probably) zero migratory deer west of I-5 below 1200 feet. 1- 2 sq. miles is generally considered to be the average home range of non-migratory BT bucks. Every buck is different.
There are virtually no BT studies on how far they travel (during the rut) in search of does (excursions). There are many eye witness accounts of hunters seeing BT bucks several miles (up to ten or so) from where they were found just a day before. These reports must be viewed with a bit of skepticism because, as we all know, it is hard to tell one deer from another, even with unusual antler configurations. Genetic flow of antler characteristics in bucks allows for, and often results in, similar unusual antler and body configurations in separate deer populations that stemmed from a common ancestor several generations removed from the current individual.
Once you've choked that last sentence down, you can be confident in knowing that if you saw a buck several times in an area outside the period of the rut, he will likely spend the majority of his time in that same home range area during the rut. If you have your heart set on killing just that one buck, then you should hunt close to where you saw him. If you're less discerning about which buck you harvest, then locating the groups of does in an area and then hunting those trails (Oct 26 - end of late buck season) that bucks use to cruise from one group of does to the next should, in theory, give you the best opportunity to see several different bucks as they make the rounds in search of hot does. Figure out where the pinch points/funnels are and you're in good shape.
Post by: JDHasty on August 04, 2016, 08:23:05 AM
That lines absolutely spot on w/my observations over the years.
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 04, 2016, 09:05:46 AM
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 04, 2016, 09:17:21 AM
I was talking with a biologist who told me that 200-250 BT/square mile in the best western WA habitat. Something like 40% antlered and 30% of those three point or better. So that means ~ twenty or twenty-five three point or better bucks/square mile. If a third of those are nice bucks then that means ~ six or eight nice bucks per section. And that would put one or two real trophy bucks on each section in the very best black tail habitat.Statistically those are some good numbers, a buck to doe ratio of 1:2.5 seems very healthy. Would you mind schooling me on blacktail habitat W of I-5?
That lines absolutely spot on w/my observations over the years.
Post by: fishnfur on August 04, 2016, 09:19:39 AM
- Upper left saddle where deer likely cross the ridge to travel between the two drainages. This one occurs in big timber and may have bucks moving through it at any time of the day during the rut. This may be a killer spot to take a stand.
- Depending on the steepness, the drainage in the lower portion of the picture may hold does in the upper portion that feed in the alder during mid-day and travel their way up that in the clear cut at night. The timbered points on that finger are promising bedding areas for bucks, allowing good vision for predators from below, easy escape from danger above, and similarly, provide relatively easy access to the great groceries up in the cut.
Post by: fishnfur on August 04, 2016, 09:20:51 AM
I was talking with a biologist who told me that 200-250 BT/square mile in the best western WA habitat. Something like 40% antlered and 30% of those three point or better. So that means ~ twenty or twenty-five three point or better bucks/square mile. If a third of those are nice bucks then that means ~ six or eight nice bucks per section. And that would put one or two real trophy bucks on each section in the very best black tail habitat.Statistically those are some good numbers, a buck to doe ratio of 1:2.5 seems very healthy. Would you mind schooling me on blacktail habitat W of I-5?
That lines absolutely spot on w/my observations over the years.
Google those exact words!
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 04, 2016, 09:49:39 AM
Two more spots to discuss:Well I'm at least feeling more confident in my Google Earth scouting! I've looked at those two spots from just about every angle. The timbered ridge appears to have some nice looking areas where the terrain breaks the steepness, areas where ridgelines, saddles, and hips & valleys all converge. The area you circled in the lower portion I like but I'm concerned about it being mostly deciduous trees and every spot I've been in like that has been way too loud, even when wet. My thought would be to bivy just below that area and slip within a couple hundred yards of the cut before daylight, settle in and hope to intercept.
- Upper left saddle where deer likely cross the ridge to travel between the two drainages. This one occurs in big timber and may have bucks moving through it at any time of the day during the rut. This may be a killer spot to take a stand.
- Depending on the steepness, the drainage in the lower portion of the picture may hold does in the upper portion that feed in the alder during mid-day and travel their way up that in the clear cut at night. The timbered points on that finger are promising bedding areas for bucks, allowing good vision for predators from below, easy escape from danger above, and similarly, provide relatively easy access to the great groceries up in the cut.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 04, 2016, 09:57:58 AM
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 04, 2016, 10:10:17 AM
deciduous trees, that's where I'd go. Especially if vine maple or alder, if there's big ferns around beneath, even better.I have not had a chance to "ground truth" the area, but I am assuming those species do occur there. I would have to camp right in it though because I do not want to navigate far in the dark in an area I've never been in. I think being near the cut edge in that forest type could really pay off.
Post by: fishnfur on August 04, 2016, 10:13:52 AM
Where's RadSav when you need him?
Post by: JDHasty on August 04, 2016, 10:26:50 AM
There ya go. That's at least a thousand answers, the deer will be where they want to be. You can only guess. I think your plan is very reasonable. You may have bucks filtering back to bed down that seam in cut in the early am, maybe not. There are deer (does for sure) in the alder, but you will likely be heard or seen trying to hunt them (if you're moving). The alder/fir edge (you in the fir) should provide more coverage for you . Nothing left to do but go out and find them. (Um...did I mention rattling in that deep dark timber?) Don't forget your doe bleat can call.
Where's RadSav when you need him?
Doe bleat can call :tup:
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 04, 2016, 10:30:42 AM
Post by: BGLEMIN on August 04, 2016, 11:10:57 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 04, 2016, 11:28:35 AM
Hunting in late October ,how high in elevation is too high?Since it is rut time then, the does determine that imo. More than a couple inches of snow for a couple days and they take the fawns down below the snowline. Bucks follow the does, if it wasn't rut the bucks would stay even if it was a foot of snow.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on August 06, 2016, 11:21:03 PM
Post by: JakeLand on August 07, 2016, 03:27:31 PM
Everybody especially you bail tag holders post your spots there are no secrets!!! The folks that paid for the permit are entitled!!!0
You 1st :chuckle: