Post by: Hi-Liter on June 24, 2016, 10:54:52 AM
I can just see other states (maybe WA) following this.
Hopefully this gets challenged by the NRA.
This is a complete violation of due process.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on June 24, 2016, 11:05:11 AM
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Post by: Hi-Liter on June 24, 2016, 11:14:56 AM
Catch & Release for illegals but monitor and track citizens based on property ownership. Sounds legit.
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And it will be free for law abiding citizens to register their guns. Just another useless tax.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on June 24, 2016, 11:19:20 AM
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Post by: csaaphill on June 25, 2016, 01:35:31 AM
:yike: :bdid: :tdown:
Post by: csaaphill on June 27, 2016, 09:58:43 PM
Post by: jeepster on July 03, 2016, 12:03:29 PM
gun registration aint really that bad of an idea out there. it is GHETTO, and there is a huge huge huge meth problem, once you get away from the resorts, its just as bad as some back alley in Manilla or Detroit. drug related gang activity is a huge problem, lots of shootings, daily, its one of the worst spots in the country for gang activity and drug related shootings, but remains largely out of sight, out of mind, because it is bad for the states no.1 source of income, tourism. once you get away from the beaches, golf courses, the canned-disneylandesque tourist traps, it is hell with palm trees, and all the ugly problems of a big city, and it is not just limited to one island, all the islands have these problems, some just hide it better than others.
while i disagree on gun control and registration nationally, this is a bunch of small islands with a very very corrupt police force, where a lot of shady and illegal things go un-noticed due to the history and culture of the hawaiian islands, and that it is a rat race where everybody is climbing over somebody to get ahead at any cost, and meth is one of the biggest money makers out there aside from tourism
after living there, i realized that because it is still viewed by the natives as its own island nation, despite statehood, and that most natives there don't feel part of the USA (there is a lot of Free Hawaii/ Defend Hawaii attitudes against statehood out there still), and that they feel as if we are the colonials, and that they don't exactly all abide by the standards that the rest of the states do. Hawaii has more in common with the Philipenes than anywhere else in the USA, and the police are as corrupt. it is common for police officers to have a brother or cousin who is in the meth business, and they turn a blind eye, and who are in it for themselves also, and protect their own, and commonly are in the hustle themselves. the islands are so small, it almost makes more sense to keep an eye on what is coming and going because of the potential for abuse and corruption. everything that enters hawaii, whether it be on a ship or airplane, is inventoried on a scuttlebutt or itinerary or cargo list, so, with a culture of intimidation, and corruption, keeping an eye on the guns might be a safe route out there.
gun registration in hawaii isn't aimed at red-flagging a bunch of white guys who have hunting rifles, ar-15s, ak47s, and anything else fun. it is aimed at keeping tabs on the hand guns that get used in the meth business.
the drug problem, the gang activity, and the violence are unlike anything else in this country, to scoff at how things might be managed there is to not understand Hawaii in the first place. it has to be treated in its own special way, because, in reality, it is not America out there. while it may be a state, it is essentially on a technicality.
it is just simply so different than anywhere else that it needs to be treated differently.
hawaii is a state, yet a third world island nation that just happened to be colonized for economic and military purposes, that by the people who live there, is still viewed as an independent nation. look at how some of the Caribbean islands handle the shipments of goods.
while technically hawaii is america, america is not hawaii, and i think that because of the issues there with the corruption and drugs, it needs to be curbed. Hawaii has an interesting culture, and historically speaking, corruption is embedded in it, from the Kapu system to modern politics, one can not simply look at hawaii and expect it to be like the rest of the USA :two cents:
simply put, what works on the mainland, the views, the attitudes, the political ideals of the mainland, do not work in Hawaii, a lot of true Hawaiians are reluctantly americans, not by choice, and while they take pride in their homeland as any patriot would, their homeland is the island nation of Hawaii, and not the continental US of A. we are the colonial overlords, and they haven't forgotten the old ways, unfortunately, the islands are rotting from the inside out, fueled by addiction, corruption, and gang violence.
Chicago, for example has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and also some of the worst violence anywhere. gun control does not work on the mainland because of the fact a gun can make it from point a to b, more ways one can count, the good guys suffer, and the bad guys always have a way to get a gun. in hawaii, what happens on the island, stays on the island, and while gun registration and control is a horrible idea on the mainland, cataloging and keeping track of whats what in the islands, i think is an okay idea, because of how trade and commerce works there, its not like somebody will drive a van full of stolen pistols from los angles to hawaii, as an illegal firearm trafficker would say in the mid west from kansas city to chicago to sell on the streets. what enters hawaii, has to come in on a ship or airplane, and because there is already a list of what guns have been brought to the island, i think it would be fair to know where they went, simply due to the size and location of the state.
i understand the fears of having what is being implemented in hawaii used as a model for the rest of the country, however, i strongly believe, based on my time in Hawaii, that it will not work anywhere else. Hawaii needs it for its future. Hawaii, is its own special case, and i am sure that there will be at least one person who has spent any considerable amount of time (not just vacationing) that will agree with at least a few of my points
a wise man once said, nobody has ever gone to an island with good intention. hawaii was a thriving nation before we came, and when we arrived we brought with us all the troubles of modernization and industrialization, once agriculture was outsourced (mainly pineapple and sugar cane) to south america and asia, there was a population left in despair, because, they had nothing else to sell on a global market, that their only commodities were now gone. there isn't even any commercial fishing in hawaii, as we would recognize here. because they allow day boat fisherman, anybody can go out, catch something, and sell it, so there isn't even really any economy aside from everything that comes with Big Box USA and tourism, and perhaps some local agriculture to support the islands, but not much else. add a growing young population wanting something better, and an animalistic need for cash, and the islands were ripe for a drug epidemic.
Post by: csaaphill on July 04, 2016, 02:04:12 AM
whatever........ Hawaii is a messed up place. i lived there for a while. the political system is over run by Japanese politicians, which treat it as we treated japan after the war.:yike: :bdid:
gun registration aint really that bad of an idea out there. it is GHETTO, and there is a huge huge huge meth problem, once you get away from the resorts, its just as bad as some back alley in Manilla or Detroit. drug related gang activity is a huge problem, lots of shootings, daily, its one of the worst spots in the country for gang activity and drug related shootings, but remains largely out of sight, out of mind, because it is bad for the states no.1 source of income, tourism. once you get away from the beaches, golf courses, the canned-disneylandesque tourist traps, it is hell with palm trees, and all the ugly problems of a big city, and it is not just limited to one island, all the islands have these problems, some just hide it better than others.
while i disagree on gun control and registration nationally, this is a bunch of small islands with a very very corrupt police force, where a lot of shady and illegal things go un-noticed due to the history and culture of the hawaiian islands, and that it is a rat race where everybody is climbing over somebody to get ahead at any cost, and meth is one of the biggest money makers out there aside from tourism
after living there, i realized that because it is still viewed by the natives as its own island nation, despite statehood, and that most natives there don't feel part of the USA (there is a lot of Free Hawaii/ Defend Hawaii attitudes against statehood out there still), and that they feel as if we are the colonials, and that they don't exactly all abide by the standards that the rest of the states do. Hawaii has more in common with the Philipenes than anywhere else in the USA, and the police are as corrupt. it is common for police officers to have a brother or cousin who is in the meth business, and they turn a blind eye, and who are in it for themselves also, and protect their own, and commonly are in the hustle themselves. the islands are so small, it almost makes more sense to keep an eye on what is coming and going because of the potential for abuse and corruption. everything that enters hawaii, whether it be on a ship or airplane, is inventoried on a scuttlebutt or itinerary or cargo list, so, with a culture of intimidation, and corruption, keeping an eye on the guns might be a safe route out there.
gun registration in hawaii isn't aimed at red-flagging a bunch of white guys who have hunting rifles, ar-15s, ak47s, and anything else fun. it is aimed at keeping tabs on the hand guns that get used in the meth business.
the drug problem, the gang activity, and the violence are unlike anything else in this country, to scoff at how things might be managed there is to not understand Hawaii in the first place. it has to be treated in its own special way, because, in reality, it is not America out there. while it may be a state, it is essentially on a technicality.
it is just simply so different than anywhere else that it needs to be treated differently.
hawaii is a state, yet a third world island nation that just happened to be colonized for economic and military purposes, that by the people who live there, is still viewed as an independent nation. look at how some of the Caribbean islands handle the shipments of goods.
while technically hawaii is america, america is not hawaii, and i think that because of the issues there with the corruption and drugs, it needs to be curbed. Hawaii has an interesting culture, and historically speaking, corruption is embedded in it, from the Kapu system to modern politics, one can not simply look at hawaii and expect it to be like the rest of the USA :two cents:
simply put, what works on the mainland, the views, the attitudes, the political ideals of the mainland, do not work in Hawaii, a lot of true Hawaiians are reluctantly americans, not by choice, and while they take pride in their homeland as any patriot would, their homeland is the island nation of Hawaii, and not the continental US of A. we are the colonial overlords, and they haven't forgotten the old ways, unfortunately, the islands are rotting from the inside out, fueled by addiction, corruption, and gang violence.
Chicago, for example has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and also some of the worst violence anywhere. gun control does not work on the mainland because of the fact a gun can make it from point a to b, more ways one can count, the good guys suffer, and the bad guys always have a way to get a gun. in hawaii, what happens on the island, stays on the island, and while gun registration and control is a horrible idea on the mainland, cataloging and keeping track of whats what in the islands, i think is an okay idea, because of how trade and commerce works there, its not like somebody will drive a van full of stolen pistols from los angles to hawaii, as an illegal firearm trafficker would say in the mid west from kansas city to chicago to sell on the streets. what enters hawaii, has to come in on a ship or airplane, and because there is already a list of what guns have been brought to the island, i think it would be fair to know where they went, simply due to the size and location of the state.
i understand the fears of having what is being implemented in hawaii used as a model for the rest of the country, however, i strongly believe, based on my time in Hawaii, that it will not work anywhere else. Hawaii needs it for its future. Hawaii, is its own special case, and i am sure that there will be at least one person who has spent any considerable amount of time (not just vacationing) that will agree with at least a few of my points
a wise man once said, nobody has ever gone to an island with good intention. hawaii was a thriving nation before we came, and when we arrived we brought with us all the troubles of modernization and industrialization, once agriculture was outsourced (mainly pineapple and sugar cane) to south america and asia, there was a population left in despair, because, they had nothing else to sell on a global market, that their only commodities were now gone. there isn't even any commercial fishing in hawaii, as we would recognize here. because they allow day boat fisherman, anybody can go out, catch something, and sell it, so there isn't even really any economy aside from everything that comes with Big Box USA and tourism, and perhaps some local agriculture to support the islands, but not much else. add a growing young population wanting something better, and an animalistic need for cash, and the islands were ripe for a drug epidemic.
Gun registration isn't bad :dunno: WTF? plus if the cops are as crooked as you say then why the heck would you want them to have say? like the wolf watching the hen house or what?
OR is that some excerpt from some other site? But never believe anyone who says it's not about this or about that BS >:(
Post by: jeepster on July 04, 2016, 01:49:31 PM
i know, its hard to explain, and for some people to read, but you have to get out of mainland thinking. you have to think island style brutha, ya know da kine?
seriously, there is already gun registration on the islands, when i was living there, i was going to ship my AR out for pig hunting, but part of the process of being not a resident of hawaii was having to take my rifle to the police station and register it with them, being not from the state, so, they already make off-islanders register guns with the cops.
being on an island, any island in hawaii, there is an itemized list of what guns come onto each island because of how the shipping process works, there is already a database of what went to which island, the registration process just would make it possible to convict people of illegally possessing firearms, which probably make up a large portion of what is in the islands anyway. due to the drug and gang problems, having it set up for the police to crack down on the meth business by giving dirtbags a couple extra charges and keeping em in jail longer, well, yeah, the islands need it. have you actually seen how bad it is there?
as i previously stated, yes gun control and registration are bad. i strongly oppose anything like this, but again, this is not the mainland we are talking about. hawaii is probably the only place i would ever suggest that gun registration might be a decent idea.
let me ask you this
hot guns, or any of the other websites where you run a serial number to check if a gun is stolen, are they not a handy tool, say if you got a gun from a horse trade, or a "friend"? wouldn't it be nice to expand the database, so, if say, somebody breaks into your house and swipes grandpas ww2 1911 service pistol, it would immediately be more recoverable?
Hawaii, is its own special case, it is dozens of tiny island spread over 1500 miles, a thousand plus miles out in the middle of no-where, it is isolated and cut off from the rest of the world. most of the main islands are about the size of the county you live in, or smaller.
its not about some grand conspiracy to take all the guns away from hawaiians, nor keeping tabs, rather enlarge the database of what guns go where.
if this were about washington, alaska, new mexico, kentucky, or anywhere else, no way in hell would you ever hear me talk this way, but hawaii, is something COMPLETELY different in application. it all looks the same on paper, but, that place is in desperate need of all the help it can get. it is really really bad out there, more so than anywhere you'd be familiar with
what works here, doesn't work there. what doesn't work in washington, will probably be effective in hawaii
if you'd spend considerable time there, you would probably have a better understanding of what I'm getting at
molon labe, jeepster out
Post by: jeepster on July 04, 2016, 02:03:33 PM
but whatever, stay at the mariot and four seasons and I'm sure you'll think everything is hunky dory out there. i lived on big island for a year plus, out in the sticks, makes anywhere upriver look like disneyland. dog fighting, cock fighting, meth, guns, super illegal activity is the norm, just turn a blind eye and everything is fine. i even watched cop get paid off out there, my neighbor was always giving cops cash, bout twice a week.
with as corrupt as it is out there, being able to prove your gun is legally yours seems to be logical to me. sure would suck if you got pulled over with your legal firearms, and accused of them not being yours, and having them confiscated and getting slapped with a bunch of *censored*e charges, and not having a database saying they are legally registered to you.
don't get your feathers ruffled until you actually understand it out there
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 04, 2016, 02:23:32 PM
Post by: csaaphill on July 04, 2016, 07:08:08 PM
in hawaii, it is not about the guns themselves. it is about the guns tied to the meth trade.BS it's a unconstitutional law regardless. All gun control is no matter what the courts say. Did you not read where it said they would be able to trace the gun to where ever in the US it is?
but whatever, stay at the mariot and four seasons and I'm sure you'll think everything is hunky dory out there. i lived on big island for a year plus, out in the sticks, makes anywhere upriver look like disneyland. dog fighting, cock fighting, meth, guns, super illegal activity is the norm, just turn a blind eye and everything is fine. i even watched cop get paid off out there, my neighbor was always giving cops cash, bout twice a week.
with as corrupt as it is out there, being able to prove your gun is legally yours seems to be logical to me. sure would suck if you got pulled over with your legal firearms, and accused of them not being yours, and having them confiscated and getting slapped with a bunch of *censored*e charges, and not having a database saying they are legally registered to you.
don't get your feathers ruffled until you actually understand it out there
Meaning they could enforce some BS law from Hawaii in Washington state or Idaho, or wherever :bash:
Want stuff to be corrected stop doing Liberal BS and stop supporting these feel good liberal socialism BS.
You or no one can sell me on how this is because of the drugs or meth crowd, stop mucking up the constitution then blame the effects there of, on Liberty, or how This crap is going to save lives I don't buy it. :rolleyes:
Post by: canyelk48 on July 05, 2016, 04:06:35 AM
Post by: csaaphill on July 05, 2016, 11:07:29 PM
Post by: jeepster on July 07, 2016, 11:52:24 PM
in hawaii, it is not about the guns themselves. it is about the guns tied to the meth trade.BS it's a unconstitutional law regardless. All gun control is no matter what the courts say. Did you not read where it said they would be able to trace the gun to where ever in the US it is?
but whatever, stay at the mariot and four seasons and I'm sure you'll think everything is hunky dory out there. i lived on big island for a year plus, out in the sticks, makes anywhere upriver look like disneyland. dog fighting, cock fighting, meth, guns, super illegal activity is the norm, just turn a blind eye and everything is fine. i even watched cop get paid off out there, my neighbor was always giving cops cash, bout twice a week.
with as corrupt as it is out there, being able to prove your gun is legally yours seems to be logical to me. sure would suck if you got pulled over with your legal firearms, and accused of them not being yours, and having them confiscated and getting slapped with a bunch of *censored*e charges, and not having a database saying they are legally registered to you.
don't get your feathers ruffled until you actually understand it out there
Meaning they could enforce some BS law from Hawaii in Washington state or Idaho, or wherever :bash:
Want stuff to be corrected stop doing Liberal BS and stop supporting these feel good liberal socialism BS.
You or no one can sell me on how this is because of the drugs or meth crowd, stop mucking up the constitution then blame the effects there of, on Liberty, or how This crap is going to save lives I don't buy it. :rolleyes:
Actually, if I am not mistaken, states have individual rights to enforce whatever laws they vote into effect, so, voting in a system in Hawaii, that would only effect guns registered in Hawaii, shouldn't be a matter of violating constitutional rights. I am pretty sure the constitution doesn't say anywhere in its texts about it being illegal for guns being a data base. In itself, a database is fairly neutral, however unpopular it may be. The honest realty is that having a database of guns in a tiny ass little chain of islands in the middle of nowhere is fairly harmless, and again, very unpopular, but more of an inconvenience than anything else.
It will be a cold day in hell I put my guns in a database here on the mainland, but, again, don't get something up your butt and be offended about gun laws in Hawaii until you have actually spent time there and understand how hawaii works. No offense, but, it's not something a haole understand
If the article was about Montana or Texas, sure as heck I'd bust out my best Carleton Heston impersonation, but this is Hawaii and has very little to do with anywhere else in the country.
The point about the law being enforceable in other states is as simple as a Hawaii resident committing a crime with a gun on the mainland, and having whatever forensics link to a whodunit database and be able to pin point the last legal owner of that gun, whether it was sold, stolen, or used by the owner
Now me this, how is that any worse than them FBI/ATF having a spent cartridge from every handgun sold at an FFL dealer prior to transaction? Only difference with registration is, the buyer would be now attached to that firearm in a database until the FFL is transferred legally.
Again, no way in hell would I support it on the mainland because of many many things, but in a tiny isolated chain of islands, it is pretty much already in place, and is just one more hole in a sinking boat so to speak.
Post by: jeepster on July 07, 2016, 11:55:42 PM
Hawaii already has you by the balls. Anyone moving to Hawaii is required to take ALL of their guns to the Honolulu PD and register them. Had to do it in 1986 when I moved there; thankfully only had about a 1/2 dozen and not 3 times the amount that I own now!
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: they still make you.
Always kind of surprising with how bad many areas there looked, that the violence wasn't worse. It was like anything more than a beat down or a machete hack was too much effort--the aloha Friday effect or something. There were parts of far west Oahu that were considered worse than Chicago or New Orleans, but just didn't result in a homicide.
We would hear shots all the time at night back when we lived on Big Island, Hilo is skeeeeettttchy at night too...