Post by: eburgtrapper on July 06, 2016, 08:02:33 PM
Jordan
Post by: JJB11B on July 06, 2016, 08:06:14 PM
Post by: Angry Perch on July 06, 2016, 08:49:29 PM
Grab a dremmel and get to sanding
Noooooo!
Post by: Stickerbush on July 06, 2016, 09:09:30 PM
Post by: eburgtrapper on July 07, 2016, 04:21:09 AM
Post by: ndcasla on July 07, 2016, 06:03:54 AM
I'd find out before starting carving.
Post by: RadSav on July 07, 2016, 06:13:59 AM
Post by: Rick on July 07, 2016, 09:53:10 AM
Here are some easy things to check.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8486078/1
Post by: jjhunter on July 07, 2016, 10:06:14 AM
Post by: CaNINE on July 07, 2016, 11:50:08 AM
Post by: JDHasty on July 07, 2016, 11:55:51 AM
I have a kimber Montana in .280ai and I've been having troubles getting it to group. Ive put quite a few different loads through it with not much success(or what I'm hoping for) I started reading threads on different sites about the bedding of the barrels and I tried the dollar bill trick. Right where the stock begins I noticed it was awfully tight so I decided to take the stock apart from the action. In the pictures I'll post there is a good amount of rubbing. I was wondering if that've bad enough to cause problems with my bullets not grouping. Thank you in advance for any input.
Jordan
Before doing anything else, recheck the scope mounting hardware and then put a different scope that is known to be reliable on it and make sure it is not a scope issue.
This takes so little time and effort and quite frequently it does end up being an internal scope issue.
Post by: jrebel on July 07, 2016, 12:02:41 PM
Post by: b23 on July 07, 2016, 12:38:26 PM
Maybe I missed this information so if you've already mentioned it my apologizes, but is this gun new or just new to you, has it ever shot groups you were happy with? Do the groups get worse the more it heats up? Are you shooting hand loads or factory ammo, and what are they?
There's a buttload of different things to check but if you can give a bit more detail as to what you're shooting in it and what the groups are doing, you'll likely get pointed in the right direction to start with instead of checking/working on 25 other things first.
A few of the basic and easy things to check first are, as was mentioned, make sure your scope and its mounting setup is tight and working properly. How does the crown look? After the guns been fired a few times the crown should have a consistent amount of soot in kind of a star pattern around the muzzle. If the gun has been apart did everything go back together properly? Is the gun a hinged floor plate design or does it have a detachable mag? If it has a hinged floorplate check to see if the internal magazine box is loose or tight, if it's tight it could be pressing against the action and putting it in a bind, actually bending the action around the action bolts. When the action is assembled and torqued to the proper spec, hold you finger under the barrel at the end of the stock, then slowly loosen the front action bolt. If you feel the barrel/stock springing away from each other, that's not good and you should have it properly bed or better yet, pillar bed.
These are the things I'd check first.
Post by: JDHasty on July 07, 2016, 12:45:07 PM
eburgtrapper, when you say "I've been having troubles getting it to group" what does that mean, are your groups just kind of scattered all over, or do they string and go vertical or horizontal?
Maybe I missed this information so if you've already mentioned it my apologizes, but is this gun new or just new to you, has it ever shot groups you were happy with? Do the groups get worse the more it heats up? Are you shooting hand loads or factory ammo, and what are they?
There's a buttload of different things to check but if you can give a bit more detail as to what you're shooting in it and what the groups are doing, you'll likely get pointed in the right direction to start with instead of checking/working on 25 other things first.
A few of the basic and easy things to check first are, as was mentioned, make sure your scope and its mounting setup is tight and working properly. How does the crown look? After the guns been fired a few times the crown should have a consistent amount of soot in kind of a star pattern around the muzzle. If the gun has been apart did everything go back together properly? Is the gun a hinged floor plate design or does it have a detachable mag? If it has a hinged floorplate check to see if the internal magazine box is loose or tight, if it's tight it could be pressing against the action and putting it in a bind, actually bending the action around the action bolts. When the action is assembled and torqued to the proper spec, hold you finger under the barrel at the end of the stock, then slowly loosen the front action bolt. If you feel the barrel/stock springing away from each other, that's not good and you should have it properly bed or better yet, pillar bed.
These are the things I'd check first.
Is the barrel clean of copper fouling. This can be a big deal particularly with, but not limited to, some of the monolithic bullets and also w/older Nosler Partition bullets. Copper fouling can get real bad real fast.
Post by: b23 on July 07, 2016, 01:01:37 PM
eburgtrapper, when you say "I've been having troubles getting it to group" what does that mean, are your groups just kind of scattered all over, or do they string and go vertical or horizontal?
Maybe I missed this information so if you've already mentioned it my apologizes, but is this gun new or just new to you, has it ever shot groups you were happy with? Do the groups get worse the more it heats up? Are you shooting hand loads or factory ammo, and what are they?
There's a buttload of different things to check but if you can give a bit more detail as to what you're shooting in it and what the groups are doing, you'll likely get pointed in the right direction to start with instead of checking/working on 25 other things first.
A few of the basic and easy things to check first are, as was mentioned, make sure your scope and its mounting setup is tight and working properly. How does the crown look? After the guns been fired a few times the crown should have a consistent amount of soot in kind of a star pattern around the muzzle. If the gun has been apart did everything go back together properly? Is the gun a hinged floor plate design or does it have a detachable mag? If it has a hinged floorplate check to see if the internal magazine box is loose or tight, if it's tight it could be pressing against the action and putting it in a bind, actually bending the action around the action bolts. When the action is assembled and torqued to the proper spec, hold you finger under the barrel at the end of the stock, then slowly loosen the front action bolt. If you feel the barrel/stock springing away from each other, that's not good and you should have it properly bed or better yet, pillar bed.
These are the things I'd check first.
Is the barrel clean of copper fouling. This can be a big deal particularly with, but not limited to, some of the monolithic bullets and also w/older Nosler Partition bullets. Copper fouling can get real bad real fast.
Good call and this can often be a bigger problem with factory barrels that didn't get a proper breakin cycle. Aftermarket barrels are hand lapped, at least the good ones are, so it's usually not as big of a problem, but factory barrels are a whole different animal and usually benefit from a proper breakin procedure.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 07, 2016, 01:10:42 PM
Some gun makers build a front pressure point into their stocks. I don't know if Kimber is one of them.agree. Some that have the pressure point (Win 1885 or Browning B78) you can't free float from the forearm, but there is some magic torque value that makes everything come together just right. Possible that rifle needs to find the right range of torque to shoot well. But if not, free floating/action bedding would probably get the rifle grouping better.
I'd find out before starting carving.
Post by: eburgtrapper on July 08, 2016, 12:40:01 PM
Thank you everyone for the insight.
Post by: yorketransport on July 10, 2016, 10:51:55 AM
Thank you everyone for the info. I appreciate everyone on this site that helps others learn. I called kimber and they said they will fix it. On the montanas the barrel is supposed to be floated. It's gonna take 7-8 weeks to get the gun back but if I did it myself it would void the warranty. When removing the scope everything was very snug unless there is an internal problem with my VX-3. I really like kimber, this Montana being my third kimber. My other two have never had any problems but this is the second time I've sent this Montana back. The first was for the ramp, it was cutting into the brass and the casings coming out of the magazine. It's pretty frustrating but I'm not sure what else to do but send it back and have it fixed.
Thank you everyone for the insight.
Glad they're going to help you out. There's a possible temporary fix that won't modify anything or void your warranty. Take a couple pieces of aluminum muffler tape and cut them to fit the bottom of your action around the action screws. It will probably take 4 or 5 layers to get a thick enough "spacer" do this to both the front and rear of the action until it sits high enough in the stock to free float the barrel. Torque everything down and then test fire it. This is just an easy and temporary way to create a pillar bedded stock. The muffler tape won't compress or shift when you tighten the action screws and will just come right off when you want to remove it.
If the groups improve, you know that your gun will shoot better with a free floated barrel not making contact with the tip of the fore end. If it doesn't improve groups, try taking the tape off and giving the barrel a little more consistent upward pressure by placing a couple of business cards between the barrel and the tip of the fore end where the two are making contact. Like RadSav said, some super thin barrel profiles shoot best when they're fully supported and others like pretty firm upward pressure.
Those are just a few things to test if you don't want to ship the gun off for 2 months. It will cost about $5 for some muffler tape at Walmart and maybe 15 minutes of your time, so you're really not out much. I've used both tricks on many of my personal guns and a lot of other people's guns over the years. Sometimes I just leave tape there and never actually bed the action. Why take the time to modify the gun when I can fix the issue with an effective and easily reversed quick fix that nobody would every even notice unless you told them?