Post by: WAPatriot on July 14, 2016, 08:42:19 AM
Post by: WAPatriot on July 14, 2016, 08:49:15 AM
Post by: 3dvapor on July 14, 2016, 09:03:50 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on July 14, 2016, 09:07:08 AM
Post by: WAPatriot on July 14, 2016, 09:07:46 AM
Post by: WSU on July 14, 2016, 09:14:09 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on July 14, 2016, 09:33:06 AM
Post by: boneaddict on July 14, 2016, 10:00:15 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on July 14, 2016, 11:44:59 AM
I agree it puts newbies into the seat to experience things they'd never have a chance at doing....which is good. Just don't think the guides make enough of an impact as to say....... predators, nets etc.
Quick example on nets. There has/was a particular net in the columbia that sat there same spot, unchecked for months. I made a point to talk to a native I saw netting and tell him about it. He asked me a bunch of questions (what size mesh, if there were fish in it etc) I told him I'm not touching it but please check it out. No idea what happened, but would hate to have to see what was in that net. :twocents:
Post by: deerlick on July 14, 2016, 01:59:26 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on July 14, 2016, 02:10:39 PM
And let's start a trophy fee for big bucks and bulls and put it on a sliding scale so those who consistently get big racks pay more and more each time! It isn't fair they get big antlers and I don't. :tup: [/sarcasm]
Guides have more fish in their boats, but it is their clients who are taking them home and notching their catch cards. What does the guide matter and why punish them because someone else has fish in their freezer?
Post by: Dhoey07 on July 14, 2016, 02:15:34 PM
Post by: allen on July 14, 2016, 03:26:25 PM
(Full disclosure - I'm not a guide. I don't know any guides other than to say hello to a few as we meet at the launch or on the river)
I'm with Deerlick, WSU & Gringo on this. All those clients are licensed fishers & have the same catch limits as I do & bundled together those clients in that boat add a lot more back to the fisheries than do the people in my boat.
The last thing we need to do is pit one group of sports fishers against another.
Post by: Curly on July 14, 2016, 03:39:11 PM
Post by: WAPatriot on July 14, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Post by: Curly on July 14, 2016, 03:52:31 PM
Taxing them is a terrible idea.
:bdid:
Post by: bearpaw on July 14, 2016, 04:08:22 PM
They also provide a valuable service and get a lot of folks involved in fishing that probably would otherwise buy licenses. More anglers means more people to support the sport and means more license dollars to pay for WDFW.
:yeah: Exactly, those guides do more to get the public to support fishing than anyone. The limit is still one fish per fisherman!
The way economics work, when you tax a business it gets passed on to the consumer. That's the only way a business stays in business! Essentially you are suggesting that everyone who goes with a guide will have to pay more! Take away the percentage of fishermen who go with a guide and expect that much of an increase to your fishing license in the near future! Take away all the fishermen that guides and charters bring in to local towns and it will hurt local economies! Just a few thoughts to consider!
Post by: rasbo on July 14, 2016, 04:42:25 PM
In recent years the number of fishing guides has exploded. I'd like to see them have to pay a large tax that would go to hatcheries. Guides are responsible for an extremely high percentage of the harvest quota especially on the Columbia. In bouy 10 for example with the 1 fish limit guides are going to be able to do 3 trips a day. Why should they get to kill 18 fish a day when on my boat I can only kill a couple. Because of these guides fisheries close super fast. I'd guess without guide boats fisheries like bouy 10 would be open twice as long. Weekend warriors getting the shaft again.some folks cant afford boats to do these things,plus the clients bring income into the area,and purchase a license..Its good for the economy.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 14, 2016, 04:49:07 PM
Actually the best thing I think the state could do would be to have the limits be twice the size for recreational guys. This would be good for the guides too cause they could do more trips.Alaska is doing things regarding differences in limits to favor the local/resident/non-guide. They have different size restrictions, daily limits and annual limits for certain species--especially the ones locals are more dependent on.
Post by: konradcountry on July 14, 2016, 05:26:51 PM
I would think guides have a hard enough time making a living as it is. Add a tax to them and they will have to raise their rates and they will likely lose some clients. That's a bad deal IMO.
This is correct. Most the boats only do guides when the economics favor it over commercial fishing.
The dock hands work entirely on tips. When I was in Westport I saw crewmen sleeping 6 to a room.
It's a lousy business. Just walk around Ilwaco. It's not a town flowing with money.
Post by: hunt_fish on July 14, 2016, 07:24:46 PM
Post by: klickman on July 14, 2016, 07:47:44 PM
Post by: snake on July 14, 2016, 08:03:19 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on July 14, 2016, 08:43:11 PM
...most of their clients do not appreciate the fisheries or the resource...
And as far as this goes, how many anglers and hunters have you seen that don't appreciate the resources? I've seen a lot. I've seen a ton of non-guided "fishermen" who are slobs and litter up the banks, take as much as they can, don't care about or appreciate anything but what they possess. Same goes with hunters unfortunately. Don't try to act like guided anglers are the problem, lots of other people on the banks and in boats are more of a problem because they go out more often and do even more damage.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on July 14, 2016, 08:56:29 PM
The only thing a tax would do is drive up the price of a guide trip. Guides aren't going to eat that extra fee. They are going to have to make the money some other way. Believe me there are no rich fishing guides. These guys barely make ends meet. You want a longer season? Follow the fish up river, find other fisheries, do as the guides do and be diverse. There is a ton of opportunity for salmon and steelhead in WA year round. Just go find it.
Just like any other industry extra taxes are passed onto the customer. If the Guide is eating it then they should revisit there business plan. Just as fuel prices rise it's passed onto the customer as a gas surcharge. Doesnt matter if your the Plumber,Electrician, HVAC tech or a fishing guide.As for following the fish up river that in itself is not feasible for most sporties and be better if they stay close to there home range and fish.
Post by: cohoho on July 14, 2016, 11:18:58 PM
I fish a lot and do not guide, but I choose what days I go and who I go with, guides rarely can choose those factors as they have commitment to ensure clients get their fish as those folks have paid licenses to enable them to catch the fish...
Post by: bearpaw on July 14, 2016, 11:43:30 PM
Maybe there should be a season limit so everyone gets a more equal chance to fish?
Post by: plugger on July 15, 2016, 04:52:48 AM
Post by: deerlick on July 15, 2016, 06:51:43 AM
Post by: BigGoonTuna on July 15, 2016, 07:10:36 AM
Post by: WALLEYEGUY on July 15, 2016, 07:29:25 AM
Post by: WAPatriot on July 15, 2016, 07:35:37 AM
Post by: WAPatriot on July 15, 2016, 07:40:23 AM
:twocents: There are so many of us that don't have a clue the guides keep many involved in the fishery, good thing for all of us. When I go down (on the lower C) I am being guided for lack of a better term, but it is by a friend that I have hooked up with that takes me for salmon I take him for walleyes. If I am going some where new I always try to hire a guide one day, my learning curve is so much shorter it saves me days or weeks of figuring things out. Personally I am just jealous that have never pulled the trigger and took up guiding full time self. But those that do guide and outfit have a hard row to hoe, and I think do help us and the fisheries, by keeping the fringes involved and are out here everyday hopefully watching over ours and their resource. IMO (Hopefully a guide one day)
Why on earth if you have a boat would you want to fish with a guide. Especially on the lower Columbia going springer fishing with a bunch of random people when all your doing is rotting on the hook. Ain't exactly rocket science.
Post by: WALLEYEGUY on July 15, 2016, 09:28:59 AM
:twocents: There are so many of us that don't have a clue the guides keep many involved in the fishery, good thing for all of us. When I go down (on the lower C) I am being guided for lack of a better term, but it is by a friend that I have hooked up with that takes me for salmon I take him for walleyes. If I am going some where new I always try to hire a guide one day, my learning curve is so much shorter it saves me days or weeks of figuring things out. Personally I am just jealous that have never pulled the trigger and took up guiding full time self. But those that do guide and outfit have a hard row to hoe, and I think do help us and the fisheries, by keeping the fringes involved and are out here everyday hopefully watching over ours and their resource. IMO (Hopefully a guide one day)
Why on earth if you have a boat would you want to fish with a guide. Especially on the lower Columbia going springer fishing with a bunch of random people when all your doing is rotting on the hook. Ain't exactly rocket science.
I have hired crappie guides in Oklahoma and bay guides in Florida, and yes some techniques are not rocket science, sturgeon on the lower Columbia but local techniques, bait rigging and areas are huge. My sturgeon trip on lower Columbia one of the best days of fishing ever. I usually warn my guides hey I am here for a week or I just moved here (ex military) so they know I will be back to the spots they show me. Usually has never been a problem. Even on the lower Columbia most guides are wealth of knowledge on best poles, lines and rigging, and personally I wear them out with questions, might even smuggle a hand held GPS on board also. ;)
Post by: jackmaster on July 15, 2016, 09:41:18 AM
Post by: Curly on July 15, 2016, 10:01:07 AM
Post by: bearpaw on July 15, 2016, 11:09:50 AM
I know this will get me flamed but before they do anything to guides I would rather see them do away with all commercial fishing. If you want fish to eat go catch one. If you don't know how, go with a guide!! The commercial industry, native and non native have destroyed our runs, Washington at one time was world renowned, the puyallup was an insane fishery for salmon and steelhead.. Leave the sportsman alone as well as guides!!
I can't agree with this, I live a few hundred miles from the wetside and sometimes it's nice to buy fish in the grocery store. What about people who live in Kansas? IMO, proper management involves allowing a certain percentage for everyone!
Post by: Dhoey07 on July 15, 2016, 11:30:03 AM
I know this will get me flamed but before they do anything to guides I would rather see them do away with all commercial fishing. If you want fish to eat go catch one. If you don't know how, go with a guide!! The commercial industry, native and non native have destroyed our runs, Washington at one time was world renowned, the puyallup was an insane fishery for salmon and steelhead.. Leave the sportsman alone as well as guides!!
I can't agree with this, I live a few hundred miles from the wetside and sometimes it's nice to buy fish in the grocery store. What about people who live in Kansas? IMO, proper management involves allowing a certain percentage for everyone!
Buy farmed fish. Most of the "steelhead" that you buy in there stores are actually net pen triploids anyway.
Post by: fisheral87 on July 15, 2016, 12:41:34 PM
Quote
IMO, proper management involves allowing a certain percentage for everyone!
Totally disagree, as citizens we are entitled to none of it and responsible for all of it.
That's also why I have a problem with making hunting/fishing a right. That argument has already been made, contributing in large part to the destruction of the resource.
It is a privilege that is being destroyed through an entitlement mindset of the consumers.
Al
Post by: SteelheadTed on July 15, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
Guides hurt fisheries plain and simple, most of their clients do not appreciate the fisheries or the resource. If you don't believe me ask a guide, they will tell you. Many rivers have been guided to death. Its ridiculous to act like they are generating a ton of support by bringing out tons of people to fisheries that can't support the pressure, and yes i'm aware of the commercial pressure blah blah blah I could go on for hours...
That is a very cynical and ungracious attitude. Guides care more about the resource than just about anyone. Their livelihood depends on the fish being around in the future. Many rivers have been guided to death? Based on what? Where are the facts to back up such a bold and affectatious claim?
Post by: bearpaw on July 15, 2016, 12:48:33 PM
QuoteIMO, proper management involves allowing a certain percentage for everyone!
Totally disagree, as citizens we are entitled to none of it and responsible for all of it.
That's also why I have a problem with making hunting/fishing a right. That argument has already been made, contributing in large part to the destruction of the resource.
It is a privilege that is being destroyed through an entitlement mindset of the consumers.
Al
I guess we can simply disagree, I see most of the bitching as simple greed, because somebody wants more at someone elses expense. :twocents:
Post by: SteelheadTed on July 15, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
Another thing about guides that drives me nuts is that they cause fisheries and techniques to get blown up. I've been fishing pro trolls and stupid baits for 5 years now it was a big advantage in certain fisheries. A guide or two catches on to using stupid baits and tells his friends there goes your competitive advantage. Then pretty soon all the boats start using stupid baits cause a third of the boats out there are guides. It just sucks I wish guides in freshwater fisheries didn't exist.
Man, your bitter. Seriously, life isn't fair, hot fishing techniques come and go, this is not a new issue and whining about something you can't change is just wasted energy.
"Competitive advantage"? Since when is fishing a competition? It isn't. We all have the same access, no one can keep more fish than someone else. No one owns a certain river just because they've fished it for 20 years. There is nothing stopping you from catching your limit other than you. There is no competition.
You know what's weird? Three weeks ago I caught a limit of sockeye on a great river and not another person was around, all day. Those places still exist, I fish those places all the time, quit whining and go fishing.
Post by: deerlick on July 15, 2016, 01:07:32 PM
you will not find any guide love from me, i think what we need is higher standards for the guides and limited entry per river/basin. very few "local" guides any more, it's become a horde of locusts especially in the last 15 years. kind of funny seeing guys with "425" numbers guiding on the cowlitz, humptulips, etc.
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so I fish all over the state is that not ok too.
Post by: bearpaw on July 15, 2016, 01:35:33 PM
you will not find any guide love from me, i think what we need is higher standards for the guides and limited entry per river/basin. very few "local" guides any more, it's become a horde of locusts especially in the last 15 years. kind of funny seeing guys with "425" numbers guiding on the cowlitz, humptulips, etc.
:chuckle: You ought to come check area codes in NE WA during late buck season! :chuckle:
Post by: WAPatriot on July 15, 2016, 02:12:39 PM
Another thing about guides that drives me nuts is that they cause fisheries and techniques to get blown up. I've been fishing pro trolls and stupid baits for 5 years now it was a big advantage in certain fisheries. A guide or two catches on to using stupid baits and tells his friends there goes your competitive advantage. Then pretty soon all the boats start using stupid baits cause a third of the boats out there are guides. It just sucks I wish guides in freshwater fisheries didn't exist.
Man, your bitter. Seriously, life isn't fair, hot fishing techniques come and go, this is not a new issue and whining about something you can't change is just wasted energy.
"Competitive advantage"? Since when is fishing a competition? It isn't. We all have the same access, no one can keep more fish than someone else. No one owns a certain river just because they've fished it for 20 years. There is nothing stopping you from catching your limit other than you. There is no competition.
You know what's weird? Three weeks ago I caught a limit of sockeye on a great river and not another person was around, all day. Those places still exist, I fish those places all the time, quit whining and go fishing.
Cool dude. Everything in life is a competition to me at least. I strive to be the best out there at whatever I do. I'm sure there are others like me.
Post by: rasbo on July 15, 2016, 02:13:36 PM
Post by: CLARKTAR on July 15, 2016, 04:18:26 PM
you will not find any guide love from me, i think what we need is higher standards for the guides and limited entry per river/basin. very few "local" guides any more, it's become a horde of locusts especially in the last 15 years. kind of funny seeing guys with "425" numbers guiding on the cowlitz, humptulips, etc.You should check the number of guide rigs on the OP with out of state license plates.
I would like to see the price for a guide license multiplied by 10 for out of state guides....
As far as in state. I see the purpose of guides. I do wish the license was more of a investment though. Lots of 25 year olds with a boat guiding for a few years then move on. They do add to the pressure, etc. If you want to guide, great, but it should be more of an investment similar to Montana.
The sporty vs. commercial debate is as old as dirt and should be avoided in my opinion.
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Post by: fisheral87 on July 15, 2016, 05:02:30 PM
Quote
I guess we can simply disagree, I see most of the bitching as simple greed, because somebody wants more at someone elses expense. :twocents:
We agree on that bearpaw.
My father in law dealt with this same issue on the Kenai as a city council member, trying to manage the guiding. It's not an insignificant group. I don't know what the commercial fishing impact has been on that river but my understanding is that fishery is struggling as well.
Al
Post by: konradcountry on July 15, 2016, 05:05:04 PM
Many customers of guides don't own a boat and only get to do an occasional fishing trip. I'm willing to bet the guys complaining about fishing guides are taking way more fish than nearly any customers of the guides. :twocents:
I agree. It's not like those customers are going every other weekend.
I would bet that a lot of those customers got a 1 day license or didn't use their annual for much else. They are probably paying more per salmon in fees than anyone else.
This really sounds like first world problems. Some people in this country are working 7 days a week. If you own a boat that you regularly take into the Columbia then you have nothing to complain about.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 15, 2016, 05:26:26 PM
Peninsula had about a half dozen things that all combined at the same time which is really making it a pain in the neck. Lots of out of area (many from Alaska and Montana) guides that are in the area in the winter. But used to be so many places that were 'local spots' for when the big rivers were getting crowded and you wouldn't see any guides--Lyre, Deep Creek, Salt Creek, Goodman, Cedar, Elwha, even Morse Creek and on and on. Not really any fishing in those any more, now everyone's crammed in what's still open.you will not find any guide love from me, i think what we need is higher standards for the guides and limited entry per river/basin. very few "local" guides any more, it's become a horde of locusts especially in the last 15 years. kind of funny seeing guys with "425" numbers guiding on the cowlitz, humptulips, etc.You should check the number of guide rigs on the OP with out of state license plates.
I would like to see the price for a guide license multiplied by 10 for out of state guides....
As far as in state. I see the purpose of guides. I do wish the license was more of a investment though. Lots of 25 year olds with a boat guiding for a few years then move on. They do add to the pressure, etc. If you want to guide, great, but it should be more of an investment similar to Montana.
The sporty vs. commercial debate is as old as dirt and should be avoided in my opinion.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk