Post by: Don_D on July 31, 2016, 11:21:02 AM
One of my buddies had a cow tag but wasn't able to fill it after spike modern but I was wondering if anyone could clue me in to the whole spike only thing and why fish and game would designate an area that way?
I only saw one camp with meat hanging all season last year and the numbers released sure didn't make me very confident about my chances in this unit. I don't think that I can talk the guys I hunt with on trying another unit though as some of them have been hunting this one their entire lives.
Post by: Dan-o on July 31, 2016, 01:02:08 PM
It's the only way to keep mature bulls in the woods.
I've lived here long enough to remember our elk woods before the spike only designations.
If you went to a winter feed lot with 2,000 elk there could be zero 6-point or better bulls.... or maybe one or two.
Go now and there is a good mix of bulls.
It sucks for hunting when you can't shoot bulls, but I don't think we have a choice..... too many hunters and not enough bulls
.
I don't know what else they could do.....
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on July 31, 2016, 02:48:59 PM
Years ago when any antlered bull was legal, 90% of the harvest was spikes.
Any large bull was the subject of conversation throughout the area.
After season Bull to cow ratios were pretty dismal, something along the lines of 6:100, and still a majority of spikes.
In an attempt to raise bull/cow ratios and increase mature bulls (4+year old) they instituted the spike only rule, with permits for branched bulls.
It actually was supposed to be a temporary restriction, but because the bull/cow ratio is now around 12:100 and a mix of mature bulls along with spikes, the overall health of the herd has improved.
90% of the harvest is still spikes, but there are a lot more branched bulls available for those lucky enough to draw a permit.
Permit sales provide revenue, so it will not change any time soon.
In my opinion, the cow permits and herd reduction (Yakima went from 14000+ to 9000) have done more damage to the opportunity provided by reducing calf production, I mean if you are only going to allow the general (non-permit) hunter to shoot spikes, why not have a bunch of them?
Nothing eats better than a 1 and 1/2 year old spike. (again, my opinion)
Post by: Don_D on July 31, 2016, 08:23:50 PM
I don't have any issue taking a spike or a cow. I was pretty discouraged though when I saw the success rate for the area my group hunts but I knew it couldn't be very good after hunting it last year and not seeing meat hanging except for one camp. Then again with the fires and lack of snow I guess it wasn't surprising.
My chances are even lower given my issues getting into areas but at least I have the chance to do it. You never know, just might luck onto one. I haven't taken advantage of any of the disabled hunts or anything yet. I enjoy going with my group so I'll probably just keep doing that.
Post by: ghosthunter on July 31, 2016, 09:08:17 PM
Post by: eliandsky on July 31, 2016, 11:49:02 PM
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Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on August 01, 2016, 09:19:35 AM
I believe cow tags are based on projected numbers. Clockum and Yakima herds are both over projections of 10k each. I think cow tags are a numbers game.Exactly, take cows out and overall numbers are reduced.
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"Normal" mortality is usually at least 25% of the calves.
By allowing increased cow harvest, calf production is reduced, and overall numbers drastically lowers.
Both herds are being managed to be around 9,500, so 10000 would be slightly over "carrying capacity" (according to WDFW) but again, my opinion would be to allow the herd to be over and allow increased harvest with longer seasons, rather than reducing numbers by cow permits at the same time having shorter seasons.
The number of bull elk harvested has historically and largely reflected the
previous year’s recruitment. Harvest report cards indicated that prior to implementation of
spike-only management, yearling bulls accounted for 70-79 percent of the harvest. For the 3
years following implementation of spike-only management, yearling bulls accounted for 80-90
percent of harvest. In 1998, after 5 years of spike-only general seasons, yearling bulls accounted
for 66 percent of bull harvest, indicating that the number of branched bull permits may now have
a large effect on total harvest. In recent decades, permit numbers have determined antlerless
harvest. In 1999, the recorded bull and antlerless mortality from hunting was estimated at 50
percent and 8 percent of the fall population. Post-season calf to spike mortality is estimated to be
60-70 percent.
Post by: scoutdog346 on August 01, 2016, 11:14:41 PM
Post by: rtspring on August 02, 2016, 12:01:17 AM
GMU 346 has the potential to be the best unit in the state considering it's right up against the park, GMU 653 and all the variation in environments it has to offer. I think wdfw has done wonderful considering all the poaching and other messed up illegal activities that goes on there with all the drunk campers ect. I do wish however wdfw gave out about 30 special perm. cow tags a season and made this archery cow hunt only last 3 days in between the quality archery and the quality muzzleloader tag. And decrease the ungodly amount of cow tags they give out to modern fire arm...lol.
You get a month to kill a cow with archery, general and late season. Rifle guys get 5 days to hunt cows after everone has chased these elk for a month and a half. Rifle is not a slam dunk, many many rifle guys go home empty handed.
Post by: scoutdog346 on August 02, 2016, 08:23:21 AM
Post by: kball4 on August 02, 2016, 08:26:35 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 02, 2016, 09:11:07 AM
It's all about the $$$, the money made from bull permits means most of eastern Washington will never have a general season to hunt mature bulls. That's why I'm heading to Idaho this year, the spike only rules were driving me crazy.
if all of Eastern Washington was general any bull, there wouldn't be any bulls
Post by: Igor on August 02, 2016, 10:59:28 AM
if all of Eastern Washington was general any bull, there wouldn't be any bulls
Yeah, but lots of hunters in this state figure that if they got the LAST branch-antlered bull they would consider themselves successful.
Post by: rtspring on August 02, 2016, 11:32:52 AM
Gmu 346 only gets a LATE gen. season about Nov 20th-Dec 8th. Spike bull or antlerless. For some reason its very hard to harvest an elk during that season with a bow.
Not true, it rotates every 3 years.
Post by: hughjorgan on August 02, 2016, 12:13:29 PM
Gmu 346 only gets a LATE gen. season about Nov 20th-Dec 8th. Spike bull or antlerless. For some reason its very hard to harvest an elk during that season with a bow.
Not true, it rotates every 3 years.
RT, where did you hear that? Only reason their was a general hunt for a few years with archery in 346 was because supposedly the number of elk in the Nile and bumping units were down, so they changed the regs to give those elk a break and a chance to rebound. I doubt we will see an early season in 346 again.
Post by: rtspring on August 02, 2016, 12:18:50 PM
Gmu 346 only gets a LATE gen. season about Nov 20th-Dec 8th. Spike bull or antlerless. For some reason its very hard to harvest an elk during that season with a bow.
Not true, it rotates every 3 years.
RT, where did you hear that? Only reason their was a general hunt for a few years with archery in 346 was because supposedly the number of elk in the Nile and bumping units were down, so they changed the regs to give those elk a break and a chance to rebound. I doubt we will see an early season in 346 again.
I was under the impression that it rotated between nile/bumping- little Naches every three years. Heck maybe Im wrong.
Post by: hughjorgan on August 02, 2016, 12:24:47 PM
Gmu 346 only gets a LATE gen. season about Nov 20th-Dec 8th. Spike bull or antlerless. For some reason its very hard to harvest an elk during that season with a bow.
Not true, it rotates every 3 years.
RT, where did you hear that? Only reason their was a general hunt for a few years with archery in 346 was because supposedly the number of elk in the Nile and bumping units were down, so they changed the regs to give those elk a break and a chance to rebound. I doubt we will see an early season in 346 again.
I was under the impression that it rotated between nile/bumping- little Naches every three years. Heck maybe Im wrong.
Not that I know of. I have been archery hunting these units since 2003 and 346 has never been open for early archery except that one time. And it was because cow numbers were down. There should be some older threads discussing it on the forum if you want to find it....
Post by: scoutdog346 on August 02, 2016, 12:25:19 PM
Post by: rtspring on August 02, 2016, 12:29:06 PM
It does not "switch every 3 years" i wish! Y do u think that?
Guess Im the one thats wrong. Forgive me but I just took up archery a few years back and swore that it rotated.
Post by: scoutdog346 on August 02, 2016, 05:05:35 PM
Post by: Don_D on August 02, 2016, 05:50:29 PM
GMU 346 has the potential to be the best unit in the state considering it's right up against the park, GMU 653 and all the variation in environments it has to offer. I think wdfw has done wonderful considering all the poaching and other messed up illegal activities that goes on there with all the drunk campers ect. I do wish however wdfw gave out about 30 special perm. cow tags a season and made this archery cow hunt only last 3 days in between the quality archery and the quality muzzleloader tag. And decrease the ungodly amount of cow tags they give out to modern fire arm...lol.
You get a month to kill a cow with archery, general and late season. Rifle guys get 5 days to hunt cows after everone has chased these elk for a month and a half. Rifle is not a slam dunk, many many rifle guys go home empty handed.
Add to that the dates for the regular season coincide with the new moon and the odds just keep getting better and better.
Post by: buglebrush on August 02, 2016, 06:05:45 PM
Post by: elkchaser54 on August 02, 2016, 06:21:13 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 02, 2016, 08:14:37 PM
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Post by: baker5150 on August 02, 2016, 08:21:36 PM
The whole state should be three point or better. Wdfw is all about the money. If most of you took a look at just how difficult it really is to draw a branch antlered bull tag on the east side of the state it would make you sick. I have talked to several biologists about why the spike only rule and it's because of the bull to cow ratio. Guess what? If we left all of those spikes alone and just shot big bulls our bull to cow ratio would increase. This state is ridiculous
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In theory maybe. But if hunters were to kill more branched Bulls than they would spikes the ratio wouldbe worse. So it could really go either way.
I agree that money is the driving force. I can't foresee guys spending
money putting in for spike tags.
Last two seasons if I could have taken a branch bull I would have harvested both years. I didn't see a single spike both seasons.
Post by: buglebrush on August 02, 2016, 08:28:47 PM
The whole state should be three point or better. Wdfw is all about the money. If most of you took a look at just how difficult it really is to draw a branch antlered bull tag on the east side of the state it would make you sick. I have talked to several biologists about why the spike only rule and it's because of the bull to cow ratio. Guess what? If we left all of those spikes alone and just shot big bulls our bull to cow ratio would increase. This state is ridiculous
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In theory maybe. But if hunters were to kill more branched Bulls than they would spikes the ratio wouldbe worse. So it could really go either way.
I agree that money is the driving force. I can't foresee guys spending
money putting in for spike tags.
Last two seasons if I could have taken a branch bull I would have harvested both years. I didn't see a single spike both seasons.
That's why I say 6x or better. Does the same thing as spike, but is a lot more fun!
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 02, 2016, 09:58:34 PM
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Post by: Jonathan_S on August 02, 2016, 11:11:50 PM
Our states management system is a joke and a system to make money. It is not set up for opportunity, it is set up for trophy hunting. I would much rather have opportunity than trophy quality. That is why I hunt Idaho and northeast Washington even though I watch some of the biggest elk herds in the state from my yard. It's a joke of a state. I have drawn one branch antler permit in this state. Then I decided to really take a look at the actual prospects of drawing tags here...it's really pretty tough.
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Who should snap their fingers and fix the problem? There so many factors: lots of hunters and OTC tags, tribal hunting and rights, poor predator management.
Post by: Bango skank on August 02, 2016, 11:18:48 PM
Our states management system is a joke and a system to make money. It is not set up for opportunity, it is set up for trophy hunting. I would much rather have opportunity than trophy quality. That is why I hunt Idaho and northeast Washington even though I watch some of the biggest elk herds in the state from my yard. It's a joke of a state. I have drawn one branch antler permit in this state. Then I decided to really take a look at the actual prospects of drawing tags here...it's really pretty tough.
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Who should snap their fingers and fix the problem? There so many factors: lots of hunters and OTC tags, tribal hunting and rights, poor predator management.
The third could be an easy fix, but hell they wont even let us take 2 bears in eastern wa, and were crawling with them.
Post by: bobcat on August 02, 2016, 11:42:30 PM
Post by: kball4 on August 03, 2016, 06:18:55 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 03, 2016, 06:35:22 AM
Post by: Don_D on August 03, 2016, 06:58:04 AM
How about we turn this conversation in to a positive one and discuss techniques to kill a mystical magical Spike elk!!!!! Would you assume most spike will behave like a satellite bull? I have seen them walking right with a 6x6 and they acted like best friends.
Were you in Montana or Idaho? :chuckle:
Actually this is something I have been thinking about, hunting outside WA to increase my odds.
Post by: vandeman17 on August 03, 2016, 07:04:31 AM
How about we turn this conversation in to a positive one and discuss techniques to kill a mystical magical Spike elk!!!!! Would you assume most spike will behave like a satellite bull? I have seen them walking right with a 6x6 and they acted like best friends.
Were you in Montana or Idaho? :chuckle:
Actually this is something I have been thinking about, hunting outside WA to increase my odds.
I have found, at least during early archery season, spikes tend to hang out and almost hide amongst groups of cows. I think they are often like early 20 somethings still living at home with their parents :chuckle:
Post by: Don_D on August 03, 2016, 07:21:49 AM
How about we turn this conversation in to a positive one and discuss techniques to kill a mystical magical Spike elk!!!!! Would you assume most spike will behave like a satellite bull? I have seen them walking right with a 6x6 and they acted like best friends.
Were you in Montana or Idaho? :chuckle:
Actually this is something I have been thinking about, hunting outside WA to increase my odds.
I have found, at least during early archery season, spikes tend to hang out and almost hide amongst groups of cows. I think they are often like early 20 somethings still living at home with their parents :chuckle:
Yeah, that's how I've seen them as well during modern. Never seen one with other bulls only cows.
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 01:10:47 PM
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Post by: bobcat on August 03, 2016, 01:14:47 PM
Opportunity does not equal armed hiking...it means a chance at success
Then you're using a different definition of opportunity than the WDFW does.
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 01:15:26 PM
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Post by: scoutdog346 on August 03, 2016, 01:16:45 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 01:19:09 PM
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Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 01:19:54 PM
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Post by: scoutdog346 on August 03, 2016, 01:33:48 PM
Post by: JLS on August 03, 2016, 01:39:57 PM
Our states management system is a joke and a system to make money. It is not set up for opportunity, it is set up for trophy hunting. I would much rather have opportunity than trophy quality. That is why I hunt Idaho and northeast Washington even though I watch some of the biggest elk herds in the state from my yard. It's a joke of a state. I have drawn one branch antler permit in this state. Then I decided to really take a look at the actual prospects of drawing tags here...it's really pretty tough.
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Who should snap their fingers and fix the problem? There so many factors: lots of hunters and OTC tags, tribal hunting and rights, poor predator management.
The third could be an easy fix, but hell they wont even let us take 2 bears in eastern wa, and were crawling with them.
I too would like to know the reasoning behind a one bear limit in E WA. It would seem like a non-factor given the current harvest levels.
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 01:43:12 PM
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Post by: buglebrush on August 03, 2016, 01:50:24 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 01:55:54 PM
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Post by: Jonathan_S on August 03, 2016, 02:23:35 PM
Opportunity does not equal armed hiking...it means a chance at success
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I think you're in denial of some complexities here. Idaho is definitely better elk hunting but the two states are apples and oranges for elk hunting
Post by: buglebrush on August 03, 2016, 02:40:20 PM
Why is Idaho Apples to oranges? Just curious what your thought process is? Idaho has more elk hunters per year than Washington in case you are going to trot out the " Washington has x-millions of people". That is true, but irrelevant as most of them don't hunt.Opportunity does not equal armed hiking...it means a chance at success
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I think you're in denial of some complexities here. Idaho is definitely better elk hunting but the two states are apples and oranges for elk hunting
I know there is some special challenges Washington faces, but that doesn't render their gross negligence on predator management, etc... irrelevant. I believe they could improve both game numbers, and the overall hunter experience by modeling their management after Idaho. :twocents:
Post by: scoutdog346 on August 03, 2016, 03:07:51 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 03:19:17 PM
Jonathan...the only complexities we have here that Idaho doesn't have are all the bunny and tree huggers. Just a note: Idaho has more hunters than Washington does, longer seasons, more opportunity, and makes less money in the permit process. There are some states that genuinely care about what people think and some that do not.
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Post by: bobcat on August 03, 2016, 03:30:14 PM
Idaho has better elk hunting due to having much more elk habitat. Period.
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 03:33:09 PM
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Post by: Igor on August 03, 2016, 04:33:55 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 03, 2016, 04:43:12 PM
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Post by: scoutdog346 on August 03, 2016, 05:23:40 PM
Post by: cryder on August 03, 2016, 07:46:31 PM
Post by: elkchaser54 on August 05, 2016, 03:04:39 PM
Post by: buglebrush on August 05, 2016, 04:19:53 PM
I grew up in the midwest deer hunting from tree stands and that was BORING !!! I love elk hunting and have only hunted in the spike only units of the blues and one year in the Observatory (4 total years of elk). I still enjoy watching the big bulls bugle and calling them in. It sucks I cant shoot them but they are still an amazing animal and its an experience not many people outside of the hunting realm understand or have experienced. Our state isn't the best for elk hunting we all know it, but complaining won't change it. If you don't like spike rules DONT HUNT in a spike unit!!!! Its pretty simple. I am okay with only shooting spikes if the experience of elk hunting can be kept going for generations. Remember the elk aren't yours! and be okay with letting them walk because if they didn't have rules they all would be DEAD! Our state employs many biologist and I'm sorry if you feel that you know more about elk and how to manage them because you just don't.So... Idaho's biologists are stupid too then?
I just don't understand defending this States management policies? :dunno:
Unless you think that a gradual elimination of hunting opportunity, and replace human hunters with wolves, lions, and bears is good policy? :dunno:
I believe America is founded on the ideals of holding the government accountable when they are being stupid. :twocents:
Post by: elkchaser54 on August 05, 2016, 06:08:20 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 05, 2016, 08:06:46 PM
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Post by: Jimmy33 on August 05, 2016, 08:11:35 PM
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Post by: dscubame on August 05, 2016, 08:14:53 PM
The big difference between Idaho and Washington that nobody mentioned is HABITAT.
Idaho has better elk hunting due to having much more elk habitat. Period.
Spot On!
Post by: hughjorgan on August 05, 2016, 08:39:02 PM
Now I'm done...anyone else have their heads so far up this states butt and are happy to hunt spikes when you absolutely should be hunting big bulls every year? If anyone wants to say" then you should do something about it"...I would say that I have written many emails, spent hours on the phone, been involved in the master hunter program, and hunted the northeast corner of the state all in an effort to get things changed. There are too many people that care more about walking around the woods with a gun in their hands and hunting spikes to no avail than real hunters in this state. That is why it will never change. We have the elk numbers, just not the elk hunters.
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I take you aren't a meat Hunter? You could always apply for a cow tag or if you have such a hard on to hunt branch antler bulls just hunt western Washington...
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 05, 2016, 08:49:07 PM
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Post by: Jimmy33 on August 05, 2016, 08:52:06 PM
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Post by: hughjorgan on August 05, 2016, 09:06:49 PM
Are you guys all voting for Hillary too?
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I AM WITH HER!
:yike: :chuckle:
Post by: Igor on August 05, 2016, 09:14:19 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 05, 2016, 09:34:29 PM
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Post by: Jonathan_S on August 05, 2016, 11:14:22 PM
I'm a meat hunter and have a cow tag this year, just can't believe that there are so many people in this state that enjoys being taken advantage of. I don't even hunt in a spike only unit. Just concerned with freedoms we are missing out on here in Washington.
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So Idaho sells OTC second deer and elk tags. I guess Washington should too huh?
Would it make you feel better if I sent you one of these? :chuckle:
Post by: dscubame on August 05, 2016, 11:18:50 PM
Post by: csaaphill on August 05, 2016, 11:22:11 PM
Don't they have those questioners anymore? I know if not last year, but the year before I filled one out, because they posted it here in the Outdoor thread. It seems like some of those opinions I put in might have came to pass, so....? :dunno:
I think if they were serious every few years they'd change it but they don't.
20 years or so is enough In my opinion.
I don't begrudge the spike only though, but I do thing it's time to change again. :twocents:
Post by: buglebrush on August 05, 2016, 11:40:40 PM
That is the part we can compare to Idaho. There they do everything to promote predator harvest which increases the amount of elk for hunters to hunt. WDFW does just the opposite. No OTC spring bear, no bear baiting, no hound hunting lions, ridiculous lion quotas, no Wolf hunting, no Wolf trapping, etc... Every elk those extra predators eat is directly reducing present and future hunter opportunity.
How can you say an organisation that is making no effort to increase hunting opportunity, but making boat loads of extra cash by limiting opportunity can be trusted? Aggressively manage predators, and make it 6x or better. :twocents:
Post by: csaaphill on August 06, 2016, 12:01:01 AM
To me the biggest issue is that WDFW has their head in the sand on predators, and creates so much hunting pressure by cramming us all into short seasons that I find it impossible to give them the benefit of the doubt here. If they were aggressively managing predators in an effort to bring game numbers back to where we could get more opportunities it would be different.:yeah:
That is the part we can compare to Idaho. There they do everything to promote predator harvest which increases the amount of elk for hunters to hunt. WDFW does just the opposite. No OTC spring bear, no bear baiting, no hound hunting lions, ridiculous lion quotas, no Wolf hunting, no Wolf trapping, etc... Every elk those extra predators eat is directly reducing present and future hunter opportunity.
How can you say an organisation that is making no effort to increase hunting opportunity, but making boat loads of extra cash by limiting opportunity can be trusted? Aggressively manage predators, and make it 6x or better. :twocents:
except not the 6x or more at least not yet. make it a OTC for 2pts or branch antlered only for a few years then work your way up. 5 years at each level would be good enough to up the cow to bull ratio's and or buck to doe. I'd appreciate a 4pt minimum for deer for a while and branch antlered for elk for a while but then change it to something else.
I agree too bring back in hound hunting, and bear baiting drop the tag fees on them, but offer 2nd and third tags for Bear, cougar, wolf. :twocents:
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 06, 2016, 08:27:31 AM
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Post by: Jimmy33 on August 06, 2016, 08:35:31 AM
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Post by: jackelope on August 06, 2016, 08:49:26 AM
You liberal Washington hunters have got it all wrong. I feel sorry for you.
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:rolleyes:
Great post. Thanks for contributing.
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 06, 2016, 08:54:16 AM
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Post by: JLS on August 06, 2016, 09:07:18 AM
Vote for Hilary and continue to shoot spikes. I'm certainly not.
WTF does political affiliation have to do with elk management? It's pretty hard to take you very seriously when you try to draw these parallels.
All that said, you raise some valid points yet you miss some.
I agree that Washington could certain expand its bear hunting opportunities. Interestingly enough though, Oregon allows spring bear as an OTC hunt but issues special permits for fall bears. I would be interested to see how their harvest rates compare to ours. Do we have east side units that could support two bears per year? I think so, but I'm not overly convinced that we could boost bear harvest numbers much above where they are at right now.
Which further begs the question, how much bang for your buck is there if bear harvest WERE to increase? I don't know the answer, but I think some folks might be disappointed.
I can remember the days before spike only. I think it has done great things for improving the bull:cow ratios. I DO think that a trophy mentality has become entrenched in the state's elk management that is limiting opportunity. We certainly could go to a 4 or 5 point minimum on elk that would allow much more opportunity. Special permits would become essentially meaningless (fine with me), and trophy quality would plummet (also fine with me).
The real question here is could you do this and maintain bull:cow ratios? I think it would be a close call here. It might not be something you could pull off unit wide. Maybe in the harder to access units like the Wenaha, Mountain View, Tucannon?
Be careful not to overlook the effect that agricultural interests have in limiting elk opportunity. Much of north central Washington could support a LOT of elk, but it wouldn't be very compatible with vineyards and orchards. All you need to do is look to the feed grounds around Yakima to see how limiting the agricultural community is to elk in Washington. I don't really think this aspect could/should change either, it is what it is.
The best thing Washington could do for elk hunting is to really focus on the access issue with west side timber companies, because this is going to shift pressure to an already over-burdened east side. Eastern Washington has some great elk habitat, but it pales in comparison to Idaho, or Oregon for that matter in terms of quantity and continuity.
Post by: jackelope on August 06, 2016, 09:15:49 AM
Jackelope....I've been posting great posts, it's a logical conclusion that I've come up with. Do you have a different conclusion? It's the liberalism that we have in this state that contributes to this line of thinking and the willingness to allow the government to control our lives.
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How's about sound management practices? Or we could just eliminate any sense of quality bull elk hunting we have here and kill them all. Enjoy the raghorns 4x3 Bulls. Should be plenty of them. A better permit system would be a start. Open season on branch antlered bulls across the Eastside is just asking for herd decimation.
Post by: jackelope on August 06, 2016, 09:16:40 AM
Post by: JLS on August 06, 2016, 09:23:27 AM
How's about sound management practices? Or we could just eliminate any sense of quality bull elk hunting we have here and kill them all. Enjoy the raghorns 4x3 Bulls. Should be plenty of them. A better permit system would be a start. Open season on branch antlered bulls across the Eastside is just asking for herd decimation.
It wouldn't necessarily decimate them, but your right in that you would see primarily raghorns. Big bulls would be a 280-290 6 point that is 3-4 years old, for the most part. Is this bad? I don't necessarily think so.
At the very minimum we should be issuing more permits. When 370-390 bulls are the expectation, I think you have really reached a point of diminishing returns when balancing opportunity vs. quality.
Post by: jackelope on August 06, 2016, 09:35:31 AM
Post by: bobcat on August 06, 2016, 09:50:05 AM
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 06, 2016, 10:54:19 AM
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Post by: Jonathan_S on August 06, 2016, 02:07:51 PM
Jonathan...all you're trying to do is making this about something it's not. Oh by the way, my game packages were done by me not some butcher I take my meat in to. This whole discussion is about freedoms we legitimately should have. Bugle brush....absolutely we should have an OTC spring bear hunt. Or do you guys also believe what the state tells you that we don't have enough bears? I will say it again, you guys who think we don't have an elk population in Washington that supports OTC branch antlered hunting trust their government too much and roll over way too easily. Vote for Hilary and continue to shoot spikes. I'm certainly not.
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I wrapped that myself too. It's called a stamp and anybody can buy and operate one.
I agree about OTC Spring Bear.
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 06, 2016, 06:15:12 PM
Jimmy33
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Post by: Don_D on August 07, 2016, 12:51:15 AM
I have to apologize as I was just driving home from a week of hanging out with family fishing and it appears that I have been a major menacing contributor to this post. It comes as a surprise to me because I hadn't commented anything personally but it appears that some family members, being the jokesters that hey are, had. I apologize for their comments and won't be letting anyone watch "videos" on my phone during get togethers again. Again, I apologize.
Jimmy33
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I was thinking about asking a mod to lock this dang thing lol. Didn't mean to open such a huge can of worms, I certainly know better now.
It's funny though, I have been going through the Elk University online course and WA is the only state of all the Elk hunting states where he basically tells people (mainly out of staters I think) not to bother as they have other and better options available to them. :( I guess that says it all there.
I think that next year I may try the wet side for a change of pace if I don't draw anything. Putting some meat on the table would be good and if I can up my chances of doing that I should do it. Plus it's closer to home so more time in the woods.
Post by: hughjorgan on August 07, 2016, 02:29:10 AM
I have to apologize as I was just driving home from a week of hanging out with family fishing and it appears that I have been a major menacing contributor to this post. It comes as a surprise to me because I hadn't commented anything personally but it appears that some family members, being the jokesters that hey are, had. I apologize for their comments and won't be letting anyone watch "videos" on my phone during get togethers again. Again, I apologize.
Jimmy33
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I was thinking about asking a mod to lock this dang thing lol. Didn't mean to open such a huge can of worms, I certainly know better now.
It's funny though, I have been going through the Elk University online course and WA is the only state of all the Elk hunting states where he basically tells people (mainly out of staters I think) not to bother as they have other and better options available to them. :( I guess that says it all there.
I think that next year I may try the wet side for a change of pace if I don't draw anything. Putting some meat on the table would be good and if I can up my chances of doing that I should do it. Plus it's closer to home so more time in the woods.
To draw a tag on the eastside means you have an eastside tag, they won't let you switch tags after the fact... Plus the Westside has lots of private and it is now pay to play on most of it. Buy your tags and permit for a tree farm and you could probably hunt out of state at that point for how much it costs.
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 07, 2016, 04:56:00 AM
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Post by: andrew_in_idaho on August 07, 2016, 06:43:26 AM
Vote for Hilary and continue to shoot spikes. I'm certainly not.
I agree that Washington could certain expand its bear hunting opportunities. Interestingly enough though, Oregon allows spring bear as an OTC hunt but issues special permits for fall bears. I would be interested to see how their harvest rates compare to ours. Do we have east side units that could support two bears per year? I think so, but I'm not overly convinced that we could boost bear harvest numbers much above where they are at right now.
Last I checked all eastside units in Oregon are permit only for spring bear, if you're going to bring facts to the table let's have them be correct
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Post by: JLS on August 07, 2016, 07:20:04 AM
Vote for Hilary and continue to shoot spikes. I'm certainly not.
I agree that Washington could certain expand its bear hunting opportunities. Interestingly enough though, Oregon allows spring bear as an OTC hunt but issues special permits for fall bears. I would be interested to see how their harvest rates compare to ours. Do we have east side units that could support two bears per year? I think so, but I'm not overly convinced that we could boost bear harvest numbers much above where they are at right now.
Last I checked all eastside units in Oregon are permit only for spring bear, if you're going to bring facts to the table let's have them be correct
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I stand corrected. Not sure where I got that, I see it is general fall season beginning 8/1 and the spring hunt in the NW and eastern Oregon is limited entry.
My sincere apologies.
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on August 07, 2016, 07:22:05 AM
No need to apologize just wanted to set the record straight. If we are to have an informed discussion we need all the factsVote for Hilary and continue to shoot spikes. I'm certainly not.
I agree that Washington could certain expand its bear hunting opportunities. Interestingly enough though, Oregon allows spring bear as an OTC hunt but issues special permits for fall bears. I would be interested to see how their harvest rates compare to ours. Do we have east side units that could support two bears per year? I think so, but I'm not overly convinced that we could boost bear harvest numbers much above where they are at right now.
Last I checked all eastside units in Oregon are permit only for spring bear, if you're going to bring facts to the table let's have them be correct
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I stand corrected. Not sure where I got that, I see it is general fall season beginning 8/1 and the spring hunt in the NW and eastern Oregon is limited entry.
My sincere apologies.
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Post by: JLS on August 07, 2016, 07:26:56 AM
Post by: scoutdog346 on August 07, 2016, 07:32:25 AM
Post by: dscubame on August 08, 2016, 02:21:58 PM
You liberal Washington hunters have got it all wrong. I feel sorry for you.
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Your just flat wrong and have a whole lot to learn. Someday you may reflect on this and have a better understanding.
Post by: Jimmy33 on August 08, 2016, 04:34:53 PM
Not sure you read my post from before...a few pages back. Got my phone hijacked for a few days. I have a little more tact than what was portrayed by my hijacker. I do not tend to share my real thoughts on any subjects here because it's a little bit of a free for all. I'm sorry that my family member offended you.You liberal Washington hunters have got it all wrong. I feel sorry for you.
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Your just flat wrong and have a whole lot to learn. Someday you may reflect on this and have a better understanding.
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Post by: dscubame on August 08, 2016, 10:07:20 PM
Not sure you read my post from before...a few pages back. Got my phone hijacked for a few days. I have a little more tact than what was portrayed by my hijacker. I do not tend to share my real thoughts on any subjects here because it's a little bit of a free for all. I'm sorry that my family member offended you.You liberal Washington hunters have got it all wrong. I feel sorry for you.
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Your just flat wrong and have a whole lot to learn. Someday you may reflect on this and have a better understanding.
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Copy that and ya I missed that post. No offense taken and WA simply does not have enough elk to support more opportunity than it already does. Times were once a lot different back when there were a whole lot less elk hunters in the woods. The good ole days...