Post by: fishunt247 on February 06, 2009, 07:57:34 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on February 06, 2009, 07:58:51 PM
Post by: 509er on February 06, 2009, 07:59:50 PM
Post by: rougheye on February 06, 2009, 08:01:29 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on February 06, 2009, 08:09:16 PM
Post by: rougheye on February 06, 2009, 08:11:06 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on February 06, 2009, 08:14:27 PM
Post by: rougheye on February 06, 2009, 08:19:22 PM
Oh yes, deer still packing headgear. And I've spent a considerable amount of time in that area and those deer a new to me too. Goes to show I guess you never know when deer are gonna show up...could happen just as easy with a monster during the season.
Have you seen that big bull elk in that field ? I havnt seen him but it seems everybody else has .
Post by: robb92 on February 06, 2009, 09:24:34 PM
Post by: OneHorn on February 06, 2009, 09:39:59 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on February 07, 2009, 08:41:10 PM
Post by: mulehunter on February 07, 2009, 08:57:25 PM
I noticed whole deer moving really stranger lately No wonder why...
Mulehunter :)
Post by: rougheye on February 07, 2009, 09:28:06 PM
Post by: mulehunter on February 07, 2009, 09:35:08 PM
Mulehunter :drool:
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on February 08, 2009, 12:10:58 AM
Natural
Piebald
Albino
Melanistic.
Natural: The average color of any deer.
Piebald: Deer lacking some pigment of white hair
Albino: Solid white deer lacking all pigment. Nose, inside of ears, skin, hooves, etc are pink. If their is any color other than White or Pink it is a Piebald
Melanistic is an over abundant of pigmet. Making a deer darker in color. Sometimes lacking white belly and throat hair. Some deer will be jet black.
Post by: Ricochet on February 08, 2009, 11:49:43 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb60%2Frenegade54%2FDSC_6018w.jpg&hash=b0a73a6124550490c3bc8520d9f01a6989679f10)
Those little piebalds are cool, hopefully they get a chance to grow up.
Post by: fishunt247 on February 08, 2009, 02:09:22 PM
Post by: firecrotch on February 08, 2009, 03:38:07 PM
Post by: wazzuhunter on February 08, 2009, 07:45:00 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on February 08, 2009, 11:53:54 PM
I use to see 5 or 6 Piebalds a year in georgia. Have mounted a couple life sive andtanned a few skins.
Post by: Ricochet on February 09, 2009, 10:08:50 AM
Post by: agchawk on February 09, 2009, 10:20:30 AM
Michelle was 100% correct in her post...at least as far as I have read/studied. Here is some more information and some examples of different gene mutations. (Please remember, I am NOT a biologist...just a curious kind of guy who never seems to stop reading). If any of you have any further information on this or want to point out any errors or inconsistancies, PLEASE feel free to do so.
Albinism/Melanism/Leucistism
To keep it short, Albinism is a result of a hypopigmentary congenital disorder. Albinism is a result of the lack of pigment melanin.
Melanism is the opposite of Albinism and turns the subject black...or much darker than normal. Although Albinism is caused by a recessive gene and is not "contagious" (It can occur even if both parents are normal...or can occur if only one parent carries the recessive gene), Melanism can be passed through bloodlines OR can be caused by environmental changes or human "actions" such as industrial pollution. Both can also occure in various forms or stages such as abundism or psuedo-abundism which causes stripped or spotted animals to grow wider or more encompassing spots and/or stripes. Piebald is another genetic "quirk" resultant of a lack of pigmentation in spots or areas vice an all-encompassing covereage. (See additional info I dug up below)
The picture of the white Muley buck outside of Meeker, CO is an example of a leucistic animal. In other words, he suffered from a pigment cell, or chromatophore, defect. He is not suffering from a lack of melanin production and therefore is not an albino...hence the normal eyes and presence of some black areas. Again, these types of genetic "quirks" are refered to as leucistism.
One really interesting thing I found in my studies is that there are links that suggest that Melanism can/does effect the immune system of the animal in question creating a better resistance to viruses/viral infections.
Piebald
A pigmentation issue which causes spots or patterns on the animal and is passed on through recessive genes (Another form of leucistism). It's really nothing that causes any real adverse health effects although some piebald deer have been reported to have curved spines and/or shorter legs than normal. Most piebalds are as healthy as thier normal-colored counterparts though. I have also read were some biologists have made attempts to link Piebald to inbreeding but I have not found any papers/books/research findings that have proven without a doubt that inbreeding is a cause.
My thoughts....if the buck and doe, whether related or not, are carriers of this recessive gene, then a resulting Piebald birth may occur. It may not totally be a function of inbreeding, rather it may be that that particular deer "family" carries that gene and continue to pass it along since "new blood" is not being introduced into that particular family line. Again, JUST my thoughts...I am NOT a biologist! But, wouldn't that also explain why some Piebald deer have curved spines, shorter legs, etc? I think that the defects are directly related to the inbreeding while the Piebald is just a function of one gene being carried through that particular bloodline.
Just an interesting fact: Pie" means "mixed up;" "bald" means "having a white spot." Hence a Piebald deer. They are also sometimes refered to as "pinto deer".
I hope this helps. If I am wrong on any of this, PLEASE let me know! I love to read and study this sort of stuff and I would also love to hear if what I have learned is incorrect.
Post by: Ricochet on February 09, 2009, 10:49:27 AM
Thanks for the info, it all agrees with the research I've done. The area where the melanistic doe lives has produced other black deer in the past and also has a higher than normal number of cactus bucks. Something about that gene pool produces more than its share of anomalies. I'm not sure why but all the melanistic whitetails I've been able to find photos of are like the one you posted, all black except for that big white tail. Our melanistic mule deer are all black, no white rump, no white throat patch, no white hair at all. As fawns neither the doe nor her brother had spots but her fawn did this year. That area has also produced at least one albino mule deer, what's next, one striped like a zebra? :yike:
Post by: agchawk on February 09, 2009, 11:05:16 AM
I'm at my desk at work so I can't see the pic you posted BUT I have noticed the same thing. I have a few pics of melanistic Mule deer and they are jet black...even the velvet on thier antlers. However, the Whitetail pics I have all show them with thier trademark white tails.
With that being said, I am pretty sure that there would also be completely black Whitetail...I just have not been able to find any good photo examples.
I'll have to check out your photo when I get back home tonight.
Post by: fishunt247 on February 09, 2009, 09:36:08 PM
Post by: Huntbear on February 09, 2009, 09:51:49 PM