Post by: KFhunter on August 12, 2016, 09:19:18 AM
(https://assets.americanhunter.org/media/1537206/bear_9mm_f.jpg?preset=article)
Quote
I have killed enough bears to know how important shot placement can be, even with large-bore rifles. I was well aware of the limitations of my 9mm pistol, even with Buffalo Bore ammo. I was aiming for a vital area with each shot; because it all took place between 6 and 8 feet, they were not far off. But hitting the head and brain of a highly animated and agitated animal is a difficult shot.
Heck of a story in the link...shot placement shot placement shot placement!
Post by: Cougartail on August 12, 2016, 09:25:26 AM
For years he carried an 06 as a backup weapon and has killed some very large bears with it.
Post by: Dan-o on August 12, 2016, 09:32:28 AM
Post by: KFhunter on August 12, 2016, 09:41:17 AM
Now if this was his personal carry and took it for himself to go fishing that's fine, but not for taking clients.
Also why don't they (guides) hand out bear spray to the clients and a quick course on deploying the spray?
Post by: b23 on August 12, 2016, 10:23:54 AM
I think it's irresponsible for a guide of this sort to carry a 9mm for protecting clients. He did his homework yes, and gambled it would be enough and got lucky.
Now if this was his personal carry and took it for himself to go fishing that's fine, but not for taking clients.
Also why don't they (guides) hand out bear spray to the clients and a quick course on deploying the spray?
I'm not sure I'd call him "irresponsible" for only packing a 9mm. It doesn't sound like this was his first rodeo so he must have had good reason and felt confident in taking the 9mm over his usual 44mag and the way I read it he put seven out of seven into the bear and there is no way to know packing his 44 would have got the job done any better, but I get what you're saying. As for being lucky, I think any time you can put down an attacking bear at close range, there is a certain amount of luck involved, but I also think shot placement trumps caliber, too.
I completely agree with your statement on clients packing bear spray and going through some amount of discussion on what to do in the event of a bear/animal attack. I know if I was being guided on a fishing trip in bear country, the least I'd have on me would be a bigazz can of bear spray.
For me, a handgun would almost be used as my backup. I would think a short 16in. barreled 45-70 or the like, lever gun on a sling of some sort would be my primary. With a little bit of practice and the right kind of sling, I think I could get on target just as fast or faster than I could drawing a handgun from a holster, and would have considerably more power/energy but be able to place my shots more accurately, but, I'm not an Alaska guide in bear country so I'd have to defer to the professionals.
Post by: mburrows on August 12, 2016, 10:29:31 AM
They had to hand the bear over to the authorities.
Post by: Widgeondeke on August 12, 2016, 10:30:15 AM
That's a combination of luck and skill.
Post by: KFhunter on August 12, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
"umm we're going to be in Grizz country and so I'm bringing this little 9mm here but don't worry it's shooting buffalo bore ammunition and I think it will be just enough to get the job done"
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 12, 2016, 10:39:26 AM
I think it's irresponsible for a guide of this sort to carry a 9mm for protecting clients. He did his homework yes, and gambled it would be enough and got lucky.
Now if this was his personal carry and took it for himself to go fishing that's fine, but not for taking clients.
Also why don't they (guides) hand out bear spray to the clients and a quick course on deploying the spray?
He got the job done. :dunno:
Post by: Cougartail on August 12, 2016, 11:17:00 AM
LOL, Phil Shoemaker has forgot more about dealing with bears yesterday than anyone on here has ever learned.
He has written articles on this topic for years (Bear Defense) and has a world wide reputation as a bear guide.
There is an old saying in Alaska, "The calibers get bigger the closer you get to Anchorage". Once we leave fantasy land you realize the average American has a greater chance of dieing going to the store for a carton of milk than being killed while fishing by a brown bear in SW Alaska.
Post by: KFhunter on August 12, 2016, 11:41:46 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbuffalobore.net%2Fimages%2FPhilShoemaker.jpg&hash=45f4ffd50275c44a813855d21efbaa12b40f1f77)
Post by: CaNINE on August 13, 2016, 11:02:29 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 13, 2016, 11:13:54 AM
Post by: birddogdad on August 13, 2016, 12:27:57 PM
Post by: Don Fischer on August 13, 2016, 06:35:35 PM
I think it's irresponsible for a guide of this sort to carry a 9mm for protecting clients. He did his homework yes, and gambled it would be enough and got lucky.
Now if this was his personal carry and took it for himself to go fishing that's fine, but not for taking clients.
Also why don't they (guides) hand out bear spray to the clients and a quick course on deploying the spray?
I could not aagree more. Very irresponsible decision!
Post by: Cougartail on August 13, 2016, 06:46:18 PM
I think it's irresponsible for a guide of this sort to carry a 9mm for protecting clients. He did his homework yes, and gambled it would be enough and got lucky.
Now if this was his personal carry and took it for himself to go fishing that's fine, but not for taking clients.
Also why don't they (guides) hand out bear spray to the clients and a quick course on deploying the spray?
I could not aagree more. Very irresponsible decision!
Are you from Anchorage?
Post by: T-Dozzer on August 13, 2016, 09:45:20 PM
I think the star of this show is the ammo. If it was the 9mm +P+ penetrator, that stuff out performs quite a bit of the .357 mag. I still wouldn't go 9mm or even semi-auto over revolver though, like said above.
Think it was just the +p outdoorsman hard cast
Post by: KFhunter on August 13, 2016, 11:20:29 PM
Read what other guides are saying:
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/109570-Alaska-Guides-carrying-10mm-for-Bear-Defence-Sidearm
Post by: buglebrush on August 19, 2016, 04:42:55 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on August 19, 2016, 06:50:34 PM
http://komonews.com/news/local/bear-mauls-2-guides-from-seattle-cruise-company-in-alaska
Post by: Bob33 on August 19, 2016, 07:28:47 PM
For comparison. Bear spray deployed. Two mauled.One used bear spray. One was seriously mauled. The article does not say which was and wasn't.
http://komonews.com/news/local/bear-mauls-2-guides-from-seattle-cruise-company-in-alaska
"One of the victims did deploy pepper spray and the bears eventually departed the area."
Post by: buglebrush on August 19, 2016, 09:55:09 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on August 20, 2016, 03:54:58 AM
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 20, 2016, 08:54:06 AM
It is kind of funny that people claim the 9mm it is such a weak round and only marginally adequate for human protection but it did a pretty good job on that bear.
Post by: KFhunter on August 20, 2016, 08:58:18 AM
A 9mm is not my first choice for a bear gun but I would prefer that over canned Tabasco. Many (most) clients cannot be trusted with bear spray, they are already jumpy and bearanoid in most cases and a few cases of clients spraying themselves or having guides and innocent bystander sprayed because they walked up behind someone explains why pepper spray is not handed out regularly. Most clients have no clue and are not outdoors people so giving them a can of bear spray is tantamount to just spraying yourself or throwing the can in the river and letting it float away.
It is kind of funny that people claim the 9mm it is such a weak round and only marginally adequate for human protection but it did a pretty good job on that bear.
Makes total sense about not handing out bear spray