Hunting Washington Forum

Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: Angry Perch on August 22, 2016, 09:09:36 AM

Title: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: Angry Perch on August 22, 2016, 09:09:36 AM: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/lawsuit-over-fireline-seeks-to-curb-forest-firefighting-tactics/
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 22, 2016, 10:02:33 AM: Interesting. I'm not sure I'm in disagreement with them on this.
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: fireweed on August 22, 2016, 10:20:24 AM: Over regulation (in this case the overregulation of regular timber sales) leads to abuse of "emergency" clauses--this is nothing new. Along the Skagit Valley (which is a Wild and Scenic River) if the river cuts near a road, the cost to fix it in the summer as a non-emergency is too expensive and cumbersome. The solution for the county/state is to wait for the fall flood, declare an emergency, then just dump rip rap to protect the road. The USFS has abused their their 'administrative authority' to close lands to the public at Mount St. Helens for THIRTY YEARS. The Environmental Impact statement directs them to manage access a certain way, but the USFS scientists don't like it, so they go around the process and essentially declare an emergency. Happens all the time.
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: UBA on August 22, 2016, 10:34:02 AM: I was there during the whole time that line was cut. There were several recourse officers around the whole time to monitor anything to do with fish habitat and or wetlands. If a fire starts to rip down one of those canyons the whole lake Wenatchee area is toast. That line is their only hope to stop something.
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 22, 2016, 10:52:09 AM: I think that's the greenies' plan, have it all burn. If the Forest Circus is hamstrung eventually insurance rates will skyrocket, banks won't loan, people won't build in the forest. Then they just need fires to remove the existing structures. Be too much red tape and cost prohibitive to rebuild, so residents head to the city and the commies get to take over more land for parks.
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: UBA on August 22, 2016, 10:56:09 AM: Can't log or work near water cause of fear of sediment and water temp rising. What do u think happens when 20 miles of a river turns to a moon.
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: bigtex on August 22, 2016, 10:57:37 AM: Quote from: UBA on August 22, 2016, 10:34:02 AM
There were several recourse officers around the whole time to monitor anything to do with fish habitat and or wetlands.
Over the past few years I've started to learn a lot more about wildland firefighting. I used to think the firefighters could go out and basically do anything in terms of cutting trees down to prevent spread. I now know that most fires now have Resource Advisors who go out and say cut this tree and not this one, there's an archaeological site here, etc. And the fire management people have to follow these orders.

So realistically if the group wants to blame someone blame those resource advisors who apparently had no problem with the actions taken on this fire.
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: MtnMuley on August 22, 2016, 10:58:48 AM: Quote from: JimmyHoffa on August 22, 2016, 10:52:09 AM
I think that's the greenies' plan, have it all burn. If the Forest Circus is hamstrung eventually insurance rates will skyrocket, banks won't loan, people won't build in the forest. Then they just need fires to remove the existing structures. Be too much red tape and cost prohibitive to rebuild, so residents head to the city and the commies get to take over more land for parks.

You nailed that one.
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 22, 2016, 12:07:20 PM: Quote from: bigtex on August 22, 2016, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: UBA on August 22, 2016, 10:34:02 AM
There were several recourse officers around the whole time to monitor anything to do with fish habitat and or wetlands.
Over the past few years I've started to learn a lot more about wildland firefighting. I used to think the firefighters could go out and basically do anything in terms of cutting trees down to prevent spread. I now know that most fires now have Resource Advisors who go out and say cut this tree and not this one, there's an archaeological site here, etc. And the fire management people have to follow these orders.

So realistically if the group wants to blame someone blame those resource advisors who apparently had no problem with the actions taken on this fire.

Your right, in most cases during wildland firefighting efforts there is nor a carte blanc to lay waste to an area. I think in this case the tree cutting was run by a different division than the wildland fire division and utilized different resource advisers and regulations. I was up there the last few years and talked to a number of the FS personnel, they certainly used (not abused IMO) what resources they had at their disposal to mitigate future fire concerns, an old fireline is easier to work than no line and now they have a 50 mile anchor point. I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the LSR "late successional reserve critical habitat" in the upper Entiat but it is a good thing the FS was able to do some work in there thinning some areas as well as putting in the fire line. I bet in a large portion of that area there were as many dead trees as live all packed very densely. If any of the fires in that area in the last 4 years had took hold of that area it would have wiped out the entire upper valley from Tyee Ranch west, the lower valley was already wiped out from similar circumstances in the 1994? Tyee Fire and a large section of that area still looks like Mars.

With the environmental hold and continuous litigation it is almost impossible to get anything done through the the proper channels so you need to figure out how to work the system as best you can.
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: timberfaller on August 22, 2016, 12:46:44 PM: Gee I wonder if those people who lost homes in town here last year are second guessing themselves about saying "NO" to a fire line proposal, to put behind there previous homes!!?? :o

Greenie's are the American Taliban, everyone STAY OUT except us who are environmentally sound and fit!!

If we keep those evil loggers OUT, WE will save the forest for posterity!! not a word for word quote but close!!!

Had the Wolverine fire happened just a few weeks earlier, WE'D know now IF that small fire break would have worked!!(it probably wouldn't have)

Those who live in that area, can thank those religious nuts, Climate Change Believers, that the weather changed at the appropriate time!! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: UBA on August 22, 2016, 03:19:44 PM: 50 miles is a bit of a stretch. Most of it used old roads and old fire breaks. 80 percent of the work was done on the meadow creek road. That's where almost all the timber came from. If I lived up there I would be glad they have a starting point. In a serious situation there is no way they could get that nice of a line in place in time
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: logger on August 22, 2016, 04:47:26 PM: Right or wrong, i'm just that for once somebody in the forest service had the nuts to make a decision and stick to it. very very rare these days
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on August 23, 2016, 05:43:38 PM: Quote from: logger on August 22, 2016, 04:47:26 PM
Right or wrong, i'm just that for once somebody in the forest service had the nuts to make a decision and stick to it. very very rare these days

YEP, BUT NOW THEY ARE GOING TO BEHEAD THEM FOR HAVING KAHUNAS. :yike:

http://www.fseee.org/index.php/ground-truth/fire-truth/1004659
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: timberfaller on August 23, 2016, 09:15:36 PM: "Haydon, who is retired, worked for 31 years for the Forest Service, mainly in wilderness and recreation management. During his Forest Service career, Haydon also worked as a firefighter and as a resource advisor and technical specialist for fire crews."

ONE key word in this "Bio" RECREATION :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: AKA: Greenie Wheenie!

That "mindset" started back in the early 70's, These clowns felt the future of USFS property was for Recreation. They STOLE monies allocated for logging roads and maintenance and diverted to their pet programs!

He is one of those WHO should have known better, BUT his indoctrination kept him ignorant!
Title: Re: Environmental group suing over Lk. Wenatchee fire line.
Post by: UBA on August 24, 2016, 09:55:29 AM: That page makes me sick. I would love to see proof those trees survived a large fire. When was the last time lake Wenatchee valley floor burned?