Post by: Bob33 on August 27, 2016, 06:45:44 AM
Shooters say the sites within Mount Baker-Snoqualmie Forest can be crowded and messy. They’ve seen a few bad apples who didn’t know how to handle their weapons. Nearby neighbors complain about the consistent pop, pop, pop resonating from the woods and say bullets have whizzed into their neighborhood.
The sheer volume of shooters, safe and otherwise, has become a predicament for a U.S. Forest Service that’s been unable to consistently enforce rules as a frustrated community — which itself includes many shooters — bears down amid anxiety about gun-toting outsiders.
The Greenwater area is popular because it’s close to urban centers, accessible via old logging roads, and no fee or pass is required to park. Also, shooting is restricted elsewhere, particularly along much of the Interstate 90 corridor.
A local network of sites has several shooting spots designated by the Forest Service, but also a patchwork of other places on abandoned logging roads and in wooded nooks where people shoot.
“When folks want to go out and do shooting where it’s crowded, they travel further up the road and … they pull off and do the shooting they want to do,” said Martie Schramm, the Snoqualmie District ranger who oversees the area.
Shooting is generally allowed on national forest land so long as shooters have a bulletproof backstop and are at least 150 yards from campsites, structures and occupied areas. Shooting must not endanger anyone, according to Forest Service rules.
At many sites near Greenwater, bullet-riddled refuse is tucked away among second-growth trees and the forest understory is littered with shotgun shells and metal jackets.
The targets aren’t your grandfather’s coffee can, but include swiss-cheesed propane bottles, iPhones with slug-shattered screens and shredded aerosol cans filled with unsavory chemicals. Perhaps it’s an assault on consumerism. From Gatorade bottles to Coleman fuel and Land O’Lakes butter packaging, few American brands seem to have escaped bullet holes.
During a recent cleanup, Forest Service officials and volunteers collected three 20-yard Dumpsters of trash.
“It’s quite disturbing,” Schramm said about the volume of trash.
Neighbors are similarly concerned about middle-of-the-night explosions they hear at the sites.
On a recent Friday night, during a statewide burn ban and on one of the hottest days of the year, shooters firing at exploding targets started a small wildfire within a clear-cut, said Greenwater Fire Chief Paul Sowers. Although the fire was on forest land, his volunteer fire district responded first and quickly doused it.
Sowers said gunshots could be heard nearby as firefighters worked.
“I grew up in a culture where if you have shooting, it’s safe shooting. I don’t feel that anymore,” he said.
Locals worry about using area trails.
“It’s really scary,” said Bob Grubb, who owns Wapiti Woolies, a gift store and snack shop in Greenwater. He won’t bike along the paved forest road near his house anymore. “You don’t know where those bullets are going and who is shooting.”
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/flying-bullets-target-shooting-trash-rile-greenwater-residents/
Post by: huntnphool on August 27, 2016, 07:14:35 AM
Quote
During a recent cleanup, Forest Service officials and volunteers collected three 20-yard Dumpsters of trash.
I'm sure they did, but to suggest this was all shooting related "trash" is agenda driven "garbage"! :twocents:
Post by: JKEEN33 on August 27, 2016, 07:24:36 AM
Post by: MADMAX on August 27, 2016, 07:34:33 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on August 27, 2016, 07:58:11 AM
Quoting the most hard core hippy in town cracks me up.
Just a a heads up, the Swiss cheese propane bottles make really cool outdoor lamps.
Post by: JKEEN33 on August 27, 2016, 08:23:13 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on August 27, 2016, 08:25:28 AM
I don't know a thing about the guy, but after seeing the mess I saw, I would side with him on this. If you know there is an issue, why leave the shot up trash and shells/hulls everywhere. Had he been complaining just about hearing shots, I would agree he was a nut job, but on this one he has a valid complaint.
I don't shoot up there.
Post by: JKEEN33 on August 27, 2016, 08:29:39 AM
Post by: hollymaster on August 27, 2016, 08:41:17 AM
Me either, and I'm not trying to single you out as the person making the mess. Just disagreeing that because you assume the guy doesn't think like you that he doesn't have a valid complaint. I am a shooter and it was an embarrassment to see the mess there.
Embarrassment is an understatement.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on August 27, 2016, 08:57:34 AM
Me either, and I'm not trying to single you out as the person making the mess. Just disagreeing that because you assume the guy doesn't think like you that he doesn't have a valid complaint. I am a shooter and it was an embarrassment to see the mess there.
I disagree with him and that group because they have lied in the past to promote thier agenda.
That said there was no reference to the pro gun groups that go up at least once a year and do cleanup.
Post by: timberfaller on August 27, 2016, 09:09:32 AM
Never understood the pigs that can't take home what they bring out to shoot at!! :dunno: YOU hauled it there, TAKE it out when your done!!
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 27, 2016, 09:19:57 AM
Now, if the ST wasn't a biased publication it would run a article about what Quest Field looks like just after a game. They could even go to a city park after a open event and see a site as bad as this.
The concessionaire for Century-Link Field is required to, and pays for, the clean-up after an event. There are no trash containers at seat level and people are expected to put their refuse under their seats.
There is garbage at Hemp Fest and the like, but not as bad as your normal shooting site.
Post by: snowshoes22 on August 27, 2016, 09:27:36 AM
Post by: bigtex on August 27, 2016, 11:10:48 AM
Post by: netcoyote on August 27, 2016, 11:40:35 AM
Now, if the ST wasn't a biased publication it would run a article about what Quest Field looks like just after a game. They could even go to a city park after a open event and see a site as bad as this.
The concessionaire for Century-Link Field is required to, and pays for, the clean-up after an event. There are no trash containers at seat level and people are expected to put their refuse under their seats.
There is garbage at Hemp Fest and the like, but not as bad as your normal shooting site.
I'm missing the connection between shooting site trash and Century Link field. Sure ST has a bias but I don't see how pointing out bad behavior at CLF has anything to do with bad behavior by shooters in the woods.
I don't see any of this change until we get a consistent effort to teach the young about respect for property and respectful public behavior. Even if that were to start tomorrow, it would take years to see the benefits in the field. I'm not going to hold my breath.
Much worse than the trash is the dangerous shooting practices by these idiots. While working on trails at Elbe Hills, I've seen many times when people will just set up targets on gated roads on just shoot into the woods with no backstop. They have no idea how many people use those trails in there. We have talked to numerous people who do this and the answer is always the same, "Oh, I didn't realize that. Sorry."
I fully expect these areas to get shut down for shooting and I'm afraid it will be after some tragedy.
Post by: JDHasty on August 28, 2016, 08:43:26 AM
I think that quite a few of these individuals shoot at one particular spot I know of because they cannot get plastered at a gun club and start blasting away. And I do mean plastered.
I bet that the same ones who are getting drunk off their butts make up the bulk of those making and leaving the messes.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 28, 2016, 09:06:14 AM
I know forest roads that have wheel barrels of dirty diapers dumped on them.
Some of this could be alleviated if some sites were picked and maintained for shooters. Not everyone wants to go to a heavy regulated range.
I have new shotgun to pattern today. No place at Plantation Range for tat activity. So I will drive up in the hills find a spot and shot a box or less.
It will keep happening until all officials recognize shooting as a valid recreational activity and start developing sites for it.
Post by: ElaphusElatus on August 29, 2016, 07:28:42 PM
Greenwater elk forage project details:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=5614
Post by: Dan-o on August 29, 2016, 08:02:42 PM
It is utterly disgusting....... People leave all kinds of crap after shooting holes in it.
Terrible behavior.
Sadly, I'm sure it will get shut down because some people are such pigs.
Post by: DaveMonti on August 29, 2016, 08:51:36 PM
I guess pointing that out will make me a liberal gun hating conspiracy creating anti everything...
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 29, 2016, 09:35:37 PM
Post by: netcoyote on September 03, 2016, 08:15:21 AM
The FS openings up the 70 Rd and Boundary Cr were created to maintain elk forage as a result of the Huckleberry Land Exchange in the early 2000's. The disgusting mess and nonstop shooting seems to be an unintended result of creating the openings. It is unlikely that the areas are coming anywhere close to meeting their intended objective. Any elk using the area may be ingesting lead. Elk and deer hunters shooting in the area should understand the purpose of the openings, the other folks will do what they want and leave a mess. Sure, people shoot elsewhere, the obvious mess and resident complaints seems to be related to these recent clearcuts. It is a shame that the FS quits cutting and locks up forest to protect a few old growth species, does something good to try to help ungulates, and then that effort is compromised.
Greenwater elk forage project details:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=5614
I'd be careful with a statement like "Any elk using the area may be ingesting lead." Liberals pick up on a statement like that and run with it, regardless of the facts. What would be the mechanics of lead ingestion? Do you have any scientific analysis to back that statement? Just the mere presence of lead on the ground does not mean ingestion is imminent. It occurs with waterfowl due to their actions of feeding off the bottom of lowland areas. Elk forage live plants. Are you basing it on lead being absorbed in vegetation? Any proof of that?
Not making a statement because I know one way or the other, but I know we have to be careful about making unscientific statements, that end up being used against us.