Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2016, 09:20:27 AM
BOD MEETING: The Money for Okanogan Deer
We have a couple thousand dollars sitting in the Bank and in Paypal designated for plantings to help the Okanogan mule deer herd. I don't know the exact amount, I'll have to check with the bank to know. The money was raised with the donations and auctions we did on the forum. We had five thousand bitterbrush seedlings lined up from Todd_Idaho to plant in the fall but something went wrong and the plants did not survive.
It's never too late to improve habitat, I would like to see this money put to use doing plantings of a perennial food source in the area it was designated for. I'm going to invite @jackelope to join this meeting and offer his thoughts as well. He did most of the auctions and I think we should listen to his input.
We need to get this money working for deer, let's hear your thoughts? This meeting is open for general discussion:
Post by: grundy53 on September 14, 2016, 09:34:27 AM
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Post by: Gringo31 on September 14, 2016, 09:37:33 AM
I say open it up!
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2016, 09:42:59 AM
I think this should be a discussion with all WFW. Granted, the directors will have sign off but as far as suggestions and gaining momentum towards the action side of things....
I say open it up!
I wonder if we should move this to the whole forum, it was the forum members who donated items and money.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 14, 2016, 09:46:30 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2016, 09:53:37 AM
If we can make plantings of perennial plants on winter range it will help deer in the winter for years to come whether it's private land or public land. There are numerous H-W members who own land in the Okanogan near the recent fires. If someone owned land on good winter range it might be much easier to organize plantings. Another option is to talk to Dan at the MDF. Jackelope is active in the MDF maybe he has some additional suggestions?
Post by: jackelope on September 14, 2016, 11:05:55 AM
I think this should be a discussion with all WFW. Granted, the directors will have sign off but as far as suggestions and gaining momentum towards the action side of things....
I say open it up!
I wonder if we should move this to the whole forum, it was the forum members who donated items and money.
Nice to see this getting started.
I like this idea. I also would like to specifically invite Dan McKinley to be a part of this discussion as well as he was also heavily involved and works for the Mule Deer Foundation.
Thoughts on this input?
Post by: Gringo31 on September 14, 2016, 01:33:32 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 14, 2016, 01:36:44 PM
I'll move it to the Deer Board.
If we can make plantings of perennial plants on winter range it will help deer in the winter for years to come whether it's private land or public land. There are numerous H-W members who own land in the Okanogan near the recent fires. If someone owned land on good winter range it might be much easier to organize plantings. Another option is to talk to Dan at the MDF. Jackelope is active in the MDF maybe he has some additional suggestions?
Maybe we can move it to the MDF board we created.
Seems fitting.
Post by: MtnMuley on September 14, 2016, 01:40:09 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2016, 01:40:48 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 14, 2016, 01:42:28 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
I'll move it to the Deer Board.
If we can make plantings of perennial plants on winter range it will help deer in the winter for years to come whether it's private land or public land. There are numerous H-W members who own land in the Okanogan near the recent fires. If someone owned land on good winter range it might be much easier to organize plantings. Another option is to talk to Dan at the MDF. Jackelope is active in the MDF maybe he has some additional suggestions?
Maybe we can move it to the MDF board we created.
Seems fitting.
I moved it from the WFW board so that the other H-W members who helped raise the money would see it and comment. I'm afraid if we put it in the MDF board some members who may have contributed in one way or another may not see it and be able to comment. :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2016, 01:46:35 PM
Been anxiously awaiting this post. Always wondered where this money we donated went. I'm sure Dan has it all figured out. :rolleyes:
It's all still in the WFW Bank Account and Paypal account. :tup:
Post by: Rainier10 on September 14, 2016, 01:49:19 PM
@MuleDeer @jkthomps and @DaveMonti just pinging you guys so you can see this thread. :tup:
Post by: jackelope on September 14, 2016, 01:55:22 PM
@MuleDeer
@MissMuleDoe
Post by: huntnphool on September 14, 2016, 02:07:58 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 14, 2016, 02:09:13 PM
Well played my friend, well played.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 14, 2016, 02:15:07 PM
Post by: huntnphool on September 14, 2016, 02:29:44 PM
I'm the treasurer now. So, I think we ought to buy a hunting lease over here in the Vancouver area. :tup: Just kidding. Would love to see something for the deer in the NE.
Can we get seedlings to plant in the N. Central too?
Post by: rasbo on September 14, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
Post by: syoungs on September 14, 2016, 03:37:21 PM
Post by: MissMuleDoe on September 14, 2016, 04:11:13 PM
I'm on my archery bull hunt.... But will make sure Dan see's this as well...when I have better service will catch up on the thread! Thanks for the tag! Rachel
Post by: jackelope on September 14, 2016, 04:30:00 PM
Hey Guys!
I'm on my archery bull hunt.... But will make sure Dan see's this as well...when I have better service will catch up on the thread! Thanks for the tag! Rachel
He's in the loop.
Post by: jackelope on September 14, 2016, 04:30:53 PM
I'm the treasurer now. So, I think we ought to buy a hunting lease over here in the Vancouver area. :tup: Just kidding. Would love to see something for the deer in the NE.
Can we get seedlings to plant in the N. Central too?
Who will be doing the actual planting when things are decided? I would like to be involved if possible.
Typically volunteers would do the planting and the prep work.
Post by: MtnMuley on September 14, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
Wasn't worried about the money being missing, but was concerned how 2 years have passed since the initial Carlton Complex Fire took place and this idea of helping the local herd fundraiser is still in neutral. Anyhow, glad it's back up and running. :tup:Been anxiously awaiting this post. Always wondered where this money we donated went. I'm sure Dan has it all figured out. :rolleyes:
It's all still in the WFW Bank Account and Paypal account. :tup:
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2016, 07:37:06 PM
Wasn't worried about the money being missing, but was concerned how 2 years have passed since the initial Carlton Complex Fire took place and this idea of helping the local herd fundraiser is still in neutral. Anyhow, glad it's back up and running. :tup:Been anxiously awaiting this post. Always wondered where this money we donated went. I'm sure Dan has it all figured out. :rolleyes:
It's all still in the WFW Bank Account and Paypal account. :tup:
You must have missed it, I explained in the first post that the bitter brush plants we intended to plant were lost. Please feel free to offer another good plan or volunteer to help get this done sooner. :tup:
Post by: Shannon on September 14, 2016, 08:26:21 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on September 14, 2016, 08:31:11 PM
I have 70 acres in the Okanogan that completely burned last fall. I didn't have a single tree that made it on one of the 20 acre parcels. I am getting a couple hundred each of fir trees, pine trees, bitter brush, and sage brush in October from a company out of Spokane. I'm picking them up on my way back from a pheasant trip to Montana. They had plenty more brush plants left to reserve if someone wanted them. It's not enough for my entire property but its a start and I will plant more in the spring. It will probably take several years to get it planted like I want to. You have to reserve plants now to have them available this fall or coming spring.
Plant some on Shannon's land. :twocents:
Post by: syoungs on September 14, 2016, 08:46:12 PM
I'm the treasurer now. So, I think we ought to buy a hunting lease over here in the Vancouver area. :tup: Just kidding. Would love to see something for the deer in the NE.
Can we get seedlings to plant in the N. Central too?Who will be doing the actual planting when things are decided? I would like to be involved if possible.
Typically volunteers would do the planting and the prep work.
How do I make sure Im on the volunteer list?
Post by: sakoshooter on September 14, 2016, 08:52:47 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on September 14, 2016, 08:53:52 PM
Post by: EmeraldBullet on September 14, 2016, 09:23:38 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on September 14, 2016, 09:25:35 PM
Wasn't worried about the money being missing, but was concerned how 2 years have passed since the initial Carlton Complex Fire took place and this idea of helping the local herd fundraiser is still in neutral. Anyhow, glad it's back up and running. :tup:Been anxiously awaiting this post. Always wondered where this money we donated went. I'm sure Dan has it all figured out. :rolleyes:
It's all still in the WFW Bank Account and Paypal account. :tup:
You must have missed it, I explained in the first post that the bitter brush plants we intended to plant were lost. Please feel free to offer another good plan or volunteer to help get this done sooner. :tup:
I didn't miss anything. Seems to me the bitter brush plants were all ready to go and we were waiting on wdfw to "assess" the situation. A year went by and nothing seemed to have happened. Now we hear the plants were "lost". Gotta do better than that for me to buy in.
Also, I've contributed $800 worth "help" to this cause shortly after the fire. I'd say that's volunteering proceeds plenty soon enough. :dunno: :tup: ;)
Post by: DaveMonti on September 14, 2016, 10:27:06 PM
I've heard a little about the project and it seems like with at least 3 parties, it's been tough to coordinate. I did mention it to Dan in one of our MDF meetings several months ago.
I don't know what the answer is to see this money go to good use, but I suspect the quickest way to make something happen is to either do something with it yourselves, or just flat out donate it to an organization that can put it to good use relatively quickly. Two years is a long time for free money to be sitting around, and it's 2 years that plants haven't had time to get established and start providing food and cover for the herd. It's a shame to have the good work of so many get lost in the bureaucratic shuffle.
Try to reconnect with Dan, but I really wouldn't expect a response if Dan has to coordinate with WDFW. I'd start thinking of other ways your organization can make something happen with the money you raised in case you find yourself holding the cash in a few months with no progress having been made.
Sorry to have little faith in the multi party approach!
Post by: MtnMuley on September 14, 2016, 10:33:01 PM
Post by: Shannon on September 14, 2016, 10:57:56 PM
I was just saying there is a company in Spokane that still had plants available in large quantity as of a couple of weeks ago.
It will be kind of fun monitoring how the land repairs itself. Unfortunately it will take a lot of time to get back to where it was. We had a lot of deer wintering on the lower parts of our property before the fire. We had sage and bitter brush that was over your head. I have been told plants that are that big are 40+ years old. I won't be moving around very quickly 40 years from now if at all:)
Post by: huntnphool on September 14, 2016, 11:01:39 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 15, 2016, 02:52:21 AM
Wasn't worried about the money being missing, but was concerned how 2 years have passed since the initial Carlton Complex Fire took place and this idea of helping the local herd fundraiser is still in neutral. Anyhow, glad it's back up and running. :tup:Been anxiously awaiting this post. Always wondered where this money we donated went. I'm sure Dan has it all figured out. :rolleyes:
It's all still in the WFW Bank Account and Paypal account. :tup:
You must have missed it, I explained in the first post that the bitter brush plants we intended to plant were lost. Please feel free to offer another good plan or volunteer to help get this done sooner. :tup:
I didn't miss anything. Seems to me the bitter brush plants were all ready to go and we were waiting on wdfw to "assess" the situation. A year went by and nothing seemed to have happened. Now we hear the plants were "lost". Gotta do better than that for me to buy in.
Also, I've contributed $800 worth "help" to this cause shortly after the fire. I'd say that's volunteering proceeds plenty soon enough. :dunno: :tup: ;)
Perhaps jackelope or Todd_Id can explain what happened if they choose, I can't remember what I was told happened to the plants. I certainly didn't give anyone a hard time about it, I simply accepted that the plants were unavailable, sometimes things happen. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your tone, but any constructive input you can manage would be greatly appreciated and helpful! :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on September 15, 2016, 03:07:27 AM
Why can't we just purchase the seedlings and go plant them with the money?
We can't plant on public land without coordination with WDFW and USFS or whatever land agency manages the land. As someone said, coordination might already be underway, I'm presuming by the MDF, but I don't know, just thinking out loud. I was pointing out earlier that replanting could take place on private land very easily. I'm in favor of whatever helps the most and can get done. I'm a firm believer that winter range is just as important on private land as on public land.
I had some correspondence from Dan (MDF) a few times, they have done some work but I don't think it was all in the Methow where we had designated this money for. I'm hoping Dan will be willing to offer some input.
Post by: Rainier10 on September 15, 2016, 08:40:35 AM
I know that after the Snag Canyon fire outside of Ellensburg I planted 3,000 10" tall pine seedlings and 500 20" tall two year old seedlings. I also got some bitterbrush seeds from Todd_ID. The bitterbrush didn't do so well but the pines have done great so far. I immediately planted a blend of native grass seed and some winter wheat just to have something hold the dirt in place the first year. Pines went in this spring.
I think the pines cost .25 each for the 10" and $4 for the 20" ones. I spent about $500 on grass and wheat. So $3,250 so far. All of that is spread out over 50 acres.
I have another 2,000 10" seedlings on order for this coming spring. That should get me another 20 acres planted.
This is just material only all labor to plant was volunteer from my friends and family just to give you an idea of what it costs and covers. For time it took 5 days to plant all of those trees and 5-6 people. Grass and wheat was just a day.
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2016, 08:54:20 AM
Wasn't worried about the money being missing, but was concerned how 2 years have passed since the initial Carlton Complex Fire took place and this idea of helping the local herd fundraiser is still in neutral. Anyhow, glad it's back up and running. :tup:Been anxiously awaiting this post. Always wondered where this money we donated went. I'm sure Dan has it all figured out. :rolleyes:
It's all still in the WFW Bank Account and Paypal account. :tup:
You must have missed it, I explained in the first post that the bitter brush plants we intended to plant were lost. Please feel free to offer another good plan or volunteer to help get this done sooner. :tup:
I didn't miss anything. Seems to me the bitter brush plants were all ready to go and we were waiting on wdfw to "assess" the situation. A year went by and nothing seemed to have happened. Now we hear the plants were "lost". Gotta do better than that for me to buy in.
Also, I've contributed $800 worth "help" to this cause shortly after the fire. I'd say that's volunteering proceeds plenty soon enough. :dunno: :tup: ;)
Perhaps jackelope or Todd_Id can explain what happened if they choose, I can't remember what I was told happened to the plants. I certainly didn't give anyone a hard time about it, I simply accepted that the plants were unavailable, sometimes things happen. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your tone, but any constructive input you can manage would be greatly appreciated and helpful! :twocents:
I don't know what happened to the plants other than I heard some or all died. They're not easy to re-plant or keep alive is the way I understood it.
Post by: Rainier10 on September 15, 2016, 10:23:43 AM
I think the most important thing to do is find a project that we can use this money on to help improve the habitat. I think Dan from the MDF is going to be one of the best avenues to find a project to use this money towards.
Post by: DaveMonti on September 15, 2016, 10:48:16 AM
For something like planting, some planning is required as far as ordering the plants, trying to coordinate with the State through Dan, and mobilizing the volunteers. To me, this seems like a cluster, mostly due to the state agencies, budgets, planning process, etc. I honestly suspect that if you want to do some planing on public land, the money will sit until at least spring, if not later.
Dan may know of other avenues for habitat improvement, including private landowners that may have wintering grounds or non-habitat type things, like donating the money, purchasing something that will be of use to other parties, etc. However, I do not think that Dan can call someone in a state agency and say "Hey, we want to do some planting in the Methow Valley on State Land" and get the go ahead.
Bearpaw, you are right in that there may be some coordination going on right now, but from my experience in following up on this (Jackalope informed me of this several months ago when he knew we were having MDF meetings), I really think that the driver of utilizing this money will have to be the folks that are trying to make good use of it. I'm not saying that this is not an avenue to utilize this money. I just think that if you have the money and want it to go to good use, the drive will have to come from within.
Post by: syoungs on September 15, 2016, 10:55:23 AM
I am relatively new to the forum so I did not donate, but I am familiar with what happened and I know it will be a long time before the area recovers. I am in the agriculture/botany industry and I would like to help in any way I can. I don't live close to the area, but I definitely would be down to schedule a few days this fall/winter to help plant things. I also will try to acquire some things to plant for the cause. Other than that, I am willing to give any advice or answer any questions that might help restore the area (I know a lot about plants, how to plant them, and what they need to survive.)
Great offer!
When it gets figured out when and where, I can help with transportation of equipment or product, up to 10k# ish. And if needed can possibly supply some heavy equipment/tractors.
Post by: LDennis24 on September 15, 2016, 11:00:22 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2016, 12:03:05 PM
I am relatively new to the forum so I did not donate, but I am familiar with what happened and I know it will be a long time before the area recovers. I am in the agriculture/botany industry and I would like to help in any way I can. I don't live close to the area, but I definitely would be down to schedule a few days this fall/winter to help plant things. I also will try to acquire some things to plant for the cause. Other than that, I am willing to give any advice or answer any questions that might help restore the area (I know a lot about plants, how to plant them, and what they need to survive.)
Great offer!
When it gets figured out when and where, I can help with transportation of equipment or product, up to 10k# ish. And if needed can possibly supply some heavy equipment/tractors.
Another great offer!!
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2016, 12:04:48 PM
I still think guys should plant some long lived perennial food plot's on private ground in the area while the bitterbrush gets established around them if that's the route they are going. Winter fat and some Sainfoin would make a pretty good plot for mule deer and even throw out a little alfalfa for the warm months. :dunno:
I believe the best way to make use of this project would be to keep the planting specific to native plants rehab'ing what burned. The disclaimer to that is that I'm not educated enough on the topic to know if those plants you mentioned are native or not.
Post by: Rainier10 on September 15, 2016, 12:07:25 PM
Post by: huntnphool on September 15, 2016, 12:08:47 PM
I still think guys should plant some long lived perennial food plot's on private ground in the area while the bitterbrush gets established around them if that's the route they are going. Winter fat and some Sainfoin would make a pretty good plot for mule deer and even throw out a little alfalfa for the warm months. :dunno:
I believe the best way to make use of this project would be to keep the planting specific to native plants rehab'ing what burned. The disclaimer to that is that I'm not educated enough on the topic to know if those plants you mentioned are native or not.
+1
Anybody know where we can purchase seedlings?
Post by: Rainier10 on September 15, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
Here is one that has it in larger 2 gallon pots.
http://www.plantsofthewild.com/
http://plantsofthewild.com/uploads/AVAILABILITY_LIST.pdf
Antelope Bitterbrush, technical name is Purshia tridentata
Post by: LDennis24 on September 15, 2016, 01:23:21 PM
I still think guys should plant some long lived perennial food plot's on private ground in the area while the bitterbrush gets established around them if that's the route they are going. Winter fat and some Sainfoin would make a pretty good plot for mule deer and even throw out a little alfalfa for the warm months. :dunno:
I believe the best way to make use of this project would be to keep the planting specific to native plants rehab'ing what burned. The disclaimer to that is that I'm not educated enough on the topic to know if those plants you mentioned are native or not.
Sainfoin is not native to the area but I believe winter fat is and it gets it's name from being a good high calorie food for browser's during the winter months. I believe it look's like a small sage bush with a pale green to white colored fuzzy leaf like a lambs ear. I was just thinking of what some folks could do on their own land as a food source. I realize this topic is about what to do with the funds donated by these folks for the good of everyone and the herds in question so private land investment's wouldn't be a good idea for that.
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2016, 01:42:48 PM
I still think guys should plant some long lived perennial food plot's on private ground in the area while the bitterbrush gets established around them if that's the route they are going. Winter fat and some Sainfoin would make a pretty good plot for mule deer and even throw out a little alfalfa for the warm months. :dunno:
I believe the best way to make use of this project would be to keep the planting specific to native plants rehab'ing what burned. The disclaimer to that is that I'm not educated enough on the topic to know if those plants you mentioned are native or not.
Sainfoin is not native to the area but I believe winter fat is and it gets it's name from being a good high calorie food for browser's during the winter months. I believe it look's like a small sage bush with a pale green to white colored fuzzy leaf like a lambs ear. I was just thinking of what some folks could do on their own land as a food source. I realize this topic is about what to do with the funds donated by these folks for the good of everyone and the herds in question so private land investment's wouldn't be a good idea for that.
Supposed to be for the good of the deer herds. Personally I don't think rehab'ing whether it's public or private makes too much difference. Not too much hunting going on at the time the deer are on that winter range anyway.
Post by: EmeraldBullet on September 15, 2016, 02:26:23 PM
If anyone is interested in taking the time to formulate a real coordinated effort let me know. We can help this land recover, but it wont be easy, it wont be cheap, and it especially wont be quick. If there's interest in doing it right, so the plants will survive and create a full and real habitat let me know and we can work together.
I have a vision of not only planting the things that deer like, but also prepping the soil (adding microrhiza and such), planting plants that will keep the soil in a condition for the bitterbrush (and pines, salal, various ferns, rockrose, etc) to actually grow and thrive. I think in 10-15 years we could make a big difference in the habitat if done correctly.
I have lot's of nursery resources and extensive knowledge on this subject so pm me if you want to help formulate a real plan.
Post by: MtnMuley on September 15, 2016, 02:34:58 PM
I feel a lot of people are being impatient with the situation because they don't fully understand the technical aspects of replanting here. You can't just dig a whole and plant some bitterbush and expect it to fix everything.
If anyone is interested in taking the time to formulate a real coordinated effort let me know. We can help this land recover, but it wont be easy, it wont be cheap, and it especially wont be quick. If there's interest in doing it right, so the plants will survive and create a full and real habitat let me know and we can work together.
I have a vision of not only planting the things that deer like, but also prepping the soil (adding microrhiza and such), planting plants that will keep the soil in a condition for the bitterbrush (and pines, salal, various ferns, rockrose, etc) to actually grow and thrive. I think in 10-15 years we could make a big difference in the habitat if done correctly.
I have lot's of nursery resources and extensive knowledge on this subject so pm me if you want to help formulate a real plan.
We have no ferns where these fires were, so I doubt planting them is a good idea with our climate. Never heard of salal and rockrose either around here, but I'm definitely no plant bio.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 15, 2016, 08:12:18 PM
There are a few nurseries that grow bulk seedlings for commercial operations like logging or arbor day plant-a-thons. Those are mostly limited to a handful of conifers though.I still think guys should plant some long lived perennial food plot's on private ground in the area while the bitterbrush gets established around them if that's the route they are going. Winter fat and some Sainfoin would make a pretty good plot for mule deer and even throw out a little alfalfa for the warm months. :dunno:
I believe the best way to make use of this project would be to keep the planting specific to native plants rehab'ing what burned. The disclaimer to that is that I'm not educated enough on the topic to know if those plants you mentioned are native or not.
+1
Anybody know where we can purchase seedlings?
If you want seeds, you can collect a good variety out there right now. I was getting a little bit of fireweed seed today, a lot is still in bloom so there will still be seeds in the near future.
Post by: LDennis24 on September 16, 2016, 10:19:41 AM
http://www.okanogancd.org/plant-sale
http://derbycanyonnatives.com/
Derby Canyon is a good local place to contact.
Your local soil conservation district will be taking orders for spring planting this winter. Contact them and see what is going to be available. I know you have to pre-order them and the more you buy the better the price. Okanogan has unfortunately discontinued this but the Palouse Rock Lake district around me still does it every year.
Post by: LDennis24 on September 16, 2016, 10:25:51 AM
Post by: huntnphool on September 16, 2016, 10:28:22 AM
http://www.wadistricts.org/plant-materials-center.html
http://www.okanogancd.org/plant-sale
http://derbycanyonnatives.com/
Derby Canyon is a good local place to contact.
Your local soil conservation district will be taking orders for spring planting this winter. Contact them and see what is going to be available. I know you have to pre-order them and the more you buy the better the price. Okanogan has unfortunately discontinued this but the Palouse Rock Lake district around me still does it every year.
:tup: