Post by: Macs B on September 22, 2016, 10:00:41 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2016, 10:14:30 AM
Post by: Kpem on September 22, 2016, 10:22:54 AM
It would depend on how much ground was available I would think and obviously the population of big game even available on that ground. As well as accessibility(is it rough terrain, swampy, rocky, thick undergrowth, ect. I would think given the right circumstances quite a few people would be interested if it gave acces for those less capable of taking advantage of the current lands available (kids, elderly, disabled, ect.) I mean people pay an arm and a leg for drawing based passes behind timber company gates, I don't see why some wouldn't take advantage of something like this.
As far as other hunters I can see it posing a problem with having too many on at one time, or time of the season, creating too much pressure on the game. If everyone is a club member they could all potentially show at same time or back to back. I think you'd be hard pressed to control that, at least for big game. Waterfowling and upland bird hunting id think would be pretty easy to manage on a first come first serve basis.
I like the idea especially for west siders. But I could see it being a difficulty to manage.
Post by: bosshogg112 on September 22, 2016, 10:23:40 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2016, 10:24:19 AM
Post by: The100Road on September 22, 2016, 10:36:47 AM
Post by: pd on September 22, 2016, 10:57:47 AM
Perhaps I therefore quality as the Anti-Christ. I don't think so. Securing tens of thousands of acres of private land (this would have to come from eastern Washington farmers and western Washington timber companies) for hunting clubs will happen in this state, sooner or later. The large expanse of public lands that we have are a blessing, but much of that has been taken away from us for hunting use. To wit:
*The national parks (fishing allowed, but a blanket ban on hunting),
*The "wilderness areas" where access is allowed, but because the roads have been decommissioned, only the fit can access these areas,
*All public lands owned by King county (no hunting allowed, right?),
*You could even argue that hunting quality is adversely affected when public lands are opened earlier (and, with better harvest opportunities) to those groups with "ceded lands hunting rights." I don't mean to start a war with this comment, it is simply a statement of fact.
My point is simple: Do not be surprised if the concept put forth by the OP becomes a reality in WA in the next 5 to 10 years. I see it coming, very clearly.
Post by: asmith on September 22, 2016, 10:58:29 AM
That being said, if the club had a good model set up, I would be down to join.
Post by: JDHasty on September 22, 2016, 11:12:09 AM
When I lived in nazifornia and nevada, I belonged to wilderness unlimited. It was a great club, with lots of private land to hunt. Each piece of land, depending on size, only allowed a certain number of hunters at any given time. We had waterfowl areas with permanent pit blinds and provided decoys in each blind. It was really nice until they got greedy and started letting anyone join. Had too many people in it and it became hard to get on a property to hunt and properties started getting trashed by lazy members.
That being said, if the club had a good model set up, I would be down to join.
Exactly why I am skeptical of hitching my wagon to such a scheme. Oh, and I am not looking, I have more access than I can take advantage of at this time. If I were looking though, my number one concern would be quality of habitat and then strictly limiting the number of members and having a zero tolerance policy for members who abuse or violate.
Post by: asmith on September 22, 2016, 11:20:48 AM
Post by: JDHasty on September 22, 2016, 11:41:12 AM
Good points but the question still remains if youo found a club that met your expectations what would you consider a market value for membership.
I suppose 1,200-1,500/year for a membership that would allow me to take one of my kids along at a time. I would not be interested in joining any club that allowed guests that were not members to hunt for any reason what so ever.
Post by: asmith on September 22, 2016, 11:47:36 AM
Post by: kukusya on September 22, 2016, 12:09:11 PM
And personally I don't care about trophy's. I just want place with piece of mind, when everyone can have great time hunting, fishing, bushcrafting, camping. I'm meat hunter I want success for everyone. And I'm tired to see when you shoot an animal and it run off next 200 yard that other person taking head shot and claim that's theirs.
Sorry ESL
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2016, 12:14:25 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on September 22, 2016, 12:16:34 PM
"managed numbers of hunters based on the season and game type." How would they be managed? Would you limit member numbers? Or limit member access? Why would I pay for membership if I have to sit it out and not hunt?
Hard to put a price on that without knowing those answers.
Post by: SteelheadTed on September 22, 2016, 12:20:52 PM
Post by: kukusya on September 22, 2016, 12:23:35 PM
Post by: bb76 on September 22, 2016, 12:43:41 PM
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Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2016, 12:50:38 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on September 22, 2016, 12:56:17 PM
And what would you expect in return for all that money?
Post by: asmith on September 22, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
$3000 buy in and $1500 annually, with increases?
And what would you expect in return for all that money?
Yea, that there is crazy talk. Way to much for a hunting club in washington!
Post by: The100Road on September 22, 2016, 01:02:28 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2016, 01:19:17 PM
A couple of disclaimers here.
First: I am not making any offer, this is just an attempt to feel out what folks would be willing to do and what kind of budget some you would give yourself.
Second: If you don't like pay to hunt kind of stuff, thanks for checking but please move along without sharing your comments, I honestly don't care if you view this as the coming of the anti-christ.
So with that being said here is the question.
Would you be willing to join a big game hunting club? A club that provides members only access to good hunting ground for deer, elk and small game as well as the possibility of bear and cougar. Water access to rivers and lakes for fishing. Possibly the inclusion of duck and goose fields. All available to members and managed numbers of hunters based on the season and game type. A club campground environment that is a family friendly environment that allows/provides for tent camping, campers and RVs, or daily access.
I'm really trying to put a plan together would reflect some of the best aspects of lease hunting with some of the more hands on management you might find in a really good duck club. Shooting lanes, food plots, and the like. Primitive camp grounds with water and electricity. Horse packing areas. Someomne who is definetly in charge and the freedom to hunt behind the boundary without a crowd.
My question is do you feel there is a interest in creating something like this on the west side? What about the East Side? What kind of a price would you be willing to pay for something like this? Would it be better if it were just big game?
What are your thoughts?
$3000 buy in and $1500 annually, with increases?If you have say 100 members, how do you plan to pay for campgrounds, tent and RV slots? Power and water? I assume you need a RV dump spot. Shooting lanes for a range? Hopefully the waterfowl area exists, if not it does cost money to create that. Are you going to have people bring their own blinds? I would assume if you are providing camp sites you would also provide ground blinds.
And what would you expect in return for all that money?
This stuff costs up front money. Do you expect the person that comes up with the plan and lease to do all this work for free and then just charge access to use it? Do you think costs to maintain or improve will never go up? Just come up with a price for 2016 costs and then let that stand for the next 20 years?
I am just expecting what the OP has in the original post and think that the costs that I have suggested would be a great start to help pay for all that you are getting.
Post by: Taco280AI on September 22, 2016, 01:24:00 PM
No
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2016, 01:42:11 PM
Does every business owner expect their up front costs to be paid back in full that first year?The op asked for input on interest level and dollar amounts to be a member. I have offered suggestions of what I think would be reasonable.
No
Do you have something to offer to the conversation?
What would your business model for this hunting club be?
Post by: Taco280AI on September 22, 2016, 01:45:04 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2016, 01:55:54 PM
With what you know from the OP's original post of what you would get what do you think the dollar figure for all of that should be? I think we can all assume there will be animals there to hunt, if not it would just be a camp ground.
Post by: JDHasty on September 22, 2016, 02:00:56 PM
Well, there might be and there might not be. I have access to a lot of properties that I don't hunt because the density of game is pretty slim.... yet just down the road a piece there are places that I do hunt on. Sometimes these areas can even be w/in walking distance of one another.
Post by: Taco280AI on September 22, 2016, 02:01:43 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2016, 02:03:34 PM
The annual fee could go up every year like homeowners dues.
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2016, 02:09:52 PM
I think it greatly depends on how many members are allowed. How is the land going to be managed? Can you wander around all the land? Is it in grids you can hunt? Are you limited to a stand or blind? How do you determine who gets the "good" areas? Can everyone hunt at the same time? Do you get all seasons?So what would you pay for unlimited access versus grid access? High and low limit? What would you pay for sign up to hunt a spot versus first come first serve? What would you pay for all season access versus pay for a specific season? Or just pick the ones that are important to you and say what you would pay for that type of access. Keep in mind the more you limit it or fine tune what is allowed the more people you remove from the base of who it appeals to.
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2016, 02:11:29 PM
"I think we can all assume there will be animals there to hunt"I for one would not pay to hunt an area that didn't have animals, that is why I was assuming they would be there.
Well, there might be and there might not be. I have access to a lot of properties that I don't hunt because the density of game is pretty slim.... yet just down the road a piece there are places that I do hunt on. Sometimes these areas can even be w/in walking distance of one another.
Post by: Taco280AI on September 22, 2016, 02:30:39 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2016, 02:34:54 PM
$500 if it were a good situation. I'd only go for deer and elk. Can hunt a lot of the state for free. Or buy timber access for a couple hundred. Or go to Idaho for $900 in tags plus the trip to an area I know will produce. If it were a state without public land it would be different.Fair enough. I think for that price you would have to sign up a lot of people to then cover the costs of all the stuff he is talking about being available. That many people would then make it not worth it for me. I personally would pay more to have less people around.
Of course I am the guy that has a lot of money invested in private property for me and my family to hunt.
Post by: Taco280AI on September 22, 2016, 02:53:37 PM
Post by: kukusya on September 22, 2016, 03:08:22 PM
Post by: cbond3318 on September 22, 2016, 03:24:56 PM
Post by: usmc_0311 on September 22, 2016, 06:43:59 PM
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Post by: DaveMonti on September 22, 2016, 09:36:25 PM
1. Think in your own head what would be acceptable private club conditions for you.
2. Imagine someone is offering this, your own acceptable opportunity, to you. You don't need to tell anyone what your own acceptable conditions are. For now, keep them in your head.
3. Determine, in your own head, how much you would pay for a membership to a club that meets your own personal conditions, whatever those conditions are.
4. Reply on this thread with that dollar number.
Really, it's that friggin simple fellas.
For me, I'd pay $1500 to $2000 a year for MY OWN PERSONAL ACCEPTABLE CONDITIONS!!! I am not going to share with you what my own personal conditions are because that doesn't matter in this thread. I'm not going to try to figure out the pitfalls that someone would have to overcome to provide me with my own personal conditions, whether the land exists, whether it's legal, how this will be accomplished. I'm just answering what the OP asked. How much would you be willing to pay for an acceptable hunting/wilderness membership.
I can't afford to pay 5000 or 10000, but I think 2000 for me is a reasonable, affordable cost.
Really, it's that simple. Just provide a number.
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2016, 09:42:19 PM
Post by: kukusya on September 23, 2016, 04:54:37 AM
-What aspects of a full service club appeal to you the most? Stands? Blinds? Food Plots? Camp Amenities?
-Would you prefer to bring your own camp or have the option to move into a very well established and provided tent camp or cabin?
-Would you rather have a "safari" type experience where there are camp staff looking after you or a more rustic family campground vibe?
Would Trophy Elk only be appealing? What about bow hunter only, or Modern firearm only?
I don't need any amenities in camp sites. I'm all for stands, blind, food plots being established of course it will be great to keep cost down, have members involving/volunteering to do that kind of staff.
cabin maybe if i stay with my young children, but definitely for my self or when kids grew up I bring my own staff.
NO ''Safari", it will raise membership coast, and it will take away that feeling of success and being proud of your self. I would rather spend money to obtain more land or improve habitat that have babysitters.
I'm not trophy hunter. So access site for elk deer and waterfowl will work for me.
Post by: nwwanderer on September 23, 2016, 07:44:20 AM
Post by: bb76 on September 23, 2016, 08:10:21 AM
I don't think I would spend more than $1000.
Cabins would be nice but not required.
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Post by: JDHasty on September 23, 2016, 08:25:20 AM
Thats a good point Bobcat. Me personally i tend to focus my hunting time on a single place, others like to get out and see the countryside.
A few more questions for the group.
-What aspects of a full service club appeal to you the most? Stands? Blinds? Food Plots? Camp Amenities?
-Would you prefer to bring your own camp or have the option to move into a very well established and provided tent camp or cabin?
-Would you rather have a "safari" type experience where there are camp staff looking after you or a more rustic family campground vibe?
Hunting obviously is the purpose of a club like this. You all have expressed some preferences. If you would please refine that a bit. Would Trophy Elk only be appealing? What about bow hunter only, or Modern firearm only?
I have my own ladder stands and blinds. Food plots would be a big plus. Power & water hookups and a picnic table are sufficient for me and all I would care to pay for, I have 110 gal black & grey holding tanks and can empty them on the way home. Actually I can carry sufficient potable water for a week or ten days and can live off my batteries and generator quite comfortably.
Perhaps a picnic cover w/communal fireplace and maybe a charcoal grill would be good so long as there were strictly enforced rules preventing someone plugging in a television w/dish antenna or cable under it.
I have my own RV (Toy Hauler)and prefer it to tents or cabins. I not only would not want to pay for a "safari" experience, I don't want or need anyone looking after me or my family, period.
Post by: JDHasty on September 26, 2016, 08:30:50 AM
More camp ground than safari camp? Makes perfectly good sense to me. Emphasis on tent sites or tents? More RV/Camper sites than tent space? Would you prefer to use your own stands or club set ones? Would you be willing to let someone use your stand if it was set and you weren't hunting that day? What about logging activities? Are you willing to coexist with active logging in some areas?
I think the biggest obstacle will be putting together a like minded group of conscience hunters, and still be something that appeals to families and individuals alike.
Talk to me about land. Now I know everyone here claims to hunt a million acres of no fence pristine wilderness, but lets face it I've lived here for more than a week. There isn't much in the way of pristine anything in this state, especially on the west side. You really have two options private farmland and timber land managed forests. The latter is easy, the farmland might require more money and work than some people think.
Keep the comments coming. I've been reading your PMs even though I haven't replied. I'll probably sit down this weekend and do some emailing.
I think my personal liability policy would exclude that as a consideration.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 26, 2016, 09:37:04 AM
Post by: Cleetiswillfeedus on September 26, 2016, 03:02:27 PM
For big game I am not thinking people would be willing to lay more then around $1000 per year. Because for that price, I will just go to idaho or Montana.
It's going to take a ton of capital to get a sizable amount of land tied up for hunting. Statistically something like 80% of deer hunters are rifle hunters. I would never pay $1000 to share a lease with other people for an 11 day rifle season in eastern Washington. Elk, your going to be limited by the tags. I wont pay to shoot a spike. I might pay to shoot a big bull.
In summary, I don't see it working in Washington. For $1000 a year I can apply for Wa Id, Oregon, Nevada, and Wy, and probably get a decent tag each year. Washington doesn't have the quality or quantity of big game to comand much for money.