Post by: CP on October 06, 2016, 08:44:20 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on October 06, 2016, 08:54:32 AM
Post by: jackelope on October 06, 2016, 08:57:30 AM
Post by: Stein on October 06, 2016, 09:02:39 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on October 06, 2016, 09:12:38 AM
I would say it is the worst AR based round for hunting elk and that includes .556/.223 (I know,Iknow).
There are way better options.
Post by: theleo on October 06, 2016, 10:13:45 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on October 06, 2016, 11:08:08 AM
Post by: headshot5 on October 06, 2016, 11:13:59 AM
Post by: lamrith on October 06, 2016, 01:08:34 PM
There are way better AR15 based options for elk hunting.
Post by: 257wbymagkiller on October 06, 2016, 01:54:45 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 06, 2016, 04:02:23 PM
If you shoot supers in it, it is only a little less powerful than a .30-30. While it's not an ideal elk cartridge, it'll make meat in the right situation.
If you consider 30% less close. The 300 blk has no business being used for hunting. You wouldn't hunt with a 223 for elk so what makes people think just going to a bigger slower bullet in a smaller case is gonna work. Not that a 30-30 hasn't killed many elk but most would consider it on the light side for elk and then to go 30% less energy. I think we owe the animals we hunt a little more respect. If you want to hunt elk with a AR platform get a 6.5 creedmoor or a 308 win. Both are great rounds. 300BLK has its place as a subsonic round for guys with cans it is great for what it was designed for.
Post by: Igor on October 06, 2016, 04:08:44 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 06, 2016, 04:44:49 PM
Post by: 12Gauge on October 06, 2016, 04:50:59 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi165.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu63%2Ffnu_lnu_photos%2Fsmiley%2520-%2520Copy_zpswqrtxypf.gif&hash=fded03f1c0979fba92829cbf40a14fb23c50c389)
:yeah:
Post by: Stein on October 06, 2016, 09:51:07 PM
Post by: Dan-o on October 06, 2016, 10:05:59 PM
I can't think of a single reason to use one for elk.
Post by: jmscon on October 06, 2016, 10:27:16 PM
Post by: Angry Perch on October 07, 2016, 08:28:20 AM
Post by: CP on October 07, 2016, 08:55:25 AM
Not an AR guy here, so stupid question. Is a 300BLK .223 necked up to .30? Isn't that like putting a VW motor in a dump truck?
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 07, 2016, 05:43:14 PM
Post by: Reidus on October 07, 2016, 09:47:45 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 07, 2016, 11:23:30 PM
Awesome elk round. It still has plenty of energy to penetrate the boiler room at 300yds. Plus theres always the option for multiple follow up shots if needed using the ar platform. Has a lot more energy than my bow and a bow can kill them in seconds.
Well heck a 22LR at 300 yards has same energy as average arrow at 40 yards. Looks like its the ruger 10/22 this year for elk season.
Post by: yorketransport on October 08, 2016, 10:26:30 AM
Awesome elk round. It still has plenty of energy to penetrate the boiler room at 300yds. Plus theres always the option for multiple follow up shots if needed using the ar platform. Has a lot more energy than my bow and a bow can kill them in seconds.
This may be a bit of a stretch. The 300 BLK from a 16" barrel has very similar ballistics to the 30 Herrett from a 14" handgun. The Herrett round is considered adequate for medium game at moderate ranges (150 yards and less) and less than ideal but functional on larger game a short range (under 75 yards).
Post by: grundy53 on October 08, 2016, 12:12:24 PM
Awesome elk round. It still has plenty of energy to penetrate the boiler room at 300yds. Plus theres always the option for multiple follow up shots if needed using the ar platform. Has a lot more energy than my bow and a bow can kill them in seconds.Broadheads kill differently than bullets. Not a good comparison at all.
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Post by: coachcw on October 08, 2016, 12:22:19 PM
Post by: Reidus on October 08, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Post by: theleo on October 08, 2016, 04:42:23 PM
Not an AR guy here, so stupid question. Is a 300BLK .223 necked up to .30? Isn't that like putting a VW motor in a dump truck?It's the legitimised version of the 300 whisper, wich was originally formed by necking up the 221 Fireball. So it's more like putting a Honda Trail 90 motor in a dump truck.
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 08, 2016, 05:21:42 PM
I'm sure nine or ten well placed rounds would do the job !
:yeah: :chuckle:
I'd say within 50 yards with cast bullets, maybe for deer :dunno:
Post by: hunter399 on October 08, 2016, 07:05:49 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 08, 2016, 07:10:52 PM
100 yards or less with the right bullets maybe ,super sonic of coarse.100 yards has the same power that most of u are shooting higher calibers at 3-400 yards out with so not really much different than that.
More like 900-1000
Post by: Bob33 on October 08, 2016, 07:16:40 PM
Post by: hunter399 on October 08, 2016, 07:20:42 PM
you should look up the balistic charts before u talk cause if you know how to Google something then maybe you would know the truth100 yards or less with the right bullets maybe ,super sonic of coarse.100 yards has the same power that most of u are shooting higher calibers at 3-400 yards out with so not really much different than that.
More like 900-1000
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 08, 2016, 07:41:31 PM
Because there are plenty of other .308 cartridges and obviously larger that are packing a bigger punch wayyyy out there and more than a 130 grain bullet from the blackout.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on October 08, 2016, 09:00:09 PM
Post by: hunter399 on October 08, 2016, 09:23:54 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 08, 2016, 10:11:39 PM
Post by: shootem on October 09, 2016, 07:30:05 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 10, 2016, 08:50:12 AM
Well if I do a 308 it has the same power at 400 yards that a 300blk has at 100 yards ,of course different grains etc.yes I would not hunt elk with it but I don't think a 308 will have the same power at 900-1000 yards that a 300 blk will have at 100.some people should really think about what there posting.Post up your numbers to really prove him wrong! I'd like to see them
Post by: hunter399 on October 10, 2016, 09:21:59 AM
Post by: hunter399 on October 10, 2016, 09:24:44 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 10, 2016, 10:08:58 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 10, 2016, 10:15:37 AM
If the comparison is truly to larger calibers or at least some of the meaner 30 caliber cartridges then I stand by what I said. And I did it without insulting your ability to search engine.
Doesn't mean I want to take a 300 blackout to the chest at 300 yards though :chuckle:
Post by: Igor on October 10, 2016, 11:05:20 AM
Post by: 257wbymagkiller on October 10, 2016, 11:15:32 AM
Post by: jasnt on October 10, 2016, 12:18:52 PM
Post by: Reidus on October 10, 2016, 12:24:21 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 10, 2016, 12:24:42 PM
Post by: hunter399 on October 10, 2016, 06:51:33 PM
I just realized that chart doesn't show energy so that chart is worthless. Nobody would shoot same bullet out of a 308 win that they would a 300 blk so BC is different and a the heavier bullet in the 308 going the same speed is gonna have way more energy. The chart means nothing towards your argument. Of course it could be that I am a AR bashing kinda guy but wait I have over 10 AR's in the safe so I don't think thats it. Could a 300 blk kill a elk? of course put in right place its gonna work everytime. But there is little room for error with it, i'd hate to see if your shot was a few inches off and it hit the scapula, good chance you would never find that elk.That's kinda funny cause I can load 308 bullets in 300 blk cases so is the same energy and bc , your knowledge of this is great,when I meant higher calibers,30-06,308,270 calibers that are the most common hunting rounds.I can load the charts for these three calibers and you will find the same .
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 10, 2016, 06:54:31 PM
Post by: hunter399 on October 10, 2016, 07:01:22 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 10, 2016, 07:09:26 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 10, 2016, 07:12:45 PM
Post by: hunter399 on October 10, 2016, 07:13:16 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 10, 2016, 07:14:44 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 10, 2016, 07:15:49 PM
Post by: hunter399 on October 10, 2016, 07:20:22 PM
Post by: CP on October 11, 2016, 05:30:09 AM
Bullet weight:
130g = .300 BLK
150g = 30/30
168g = .308
Muzzle velocity
2075 fps = .300 BLK
2335 fps = 30/30
2750 fps = .308
Down range energy:
982 ft-lbs @ 100y = .300 BLK
988 ft-lbs @ 280y = 30/30
983 ft-lbs @ 550y = .308
Data source:
http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml
Post by: Gringo31 on October 11, 2016, 10:22:17 AM
Now.....who thinks it's a good idea to take a weapon that is limited to 100 yards during modern season when an opportunity can easily come at 200 or 250 yards. Why temp yourself, risk losing an opportunity or worse?
But....we are all given choices. It's just not one I'd make. :twocents:
Post by: hendog on October 12, 2016, 12:45:01 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 12, 2016, 03:25:59 AM
Post by: CP on October 12, 2016, 06:28:35 AM
I plan on taking my Ruger Mini-14 in 300 Blackout for blacktail deer hunt this year. I am using 125gn hand loads @ 2300 FPS.
What bullet & powder are you using for that?
Post by: hunter399 on October 12, 2016, 08:14:55 AM
I plan on taking my Ruger Mini-14 in 300 Blackout for blacktail deer hunt this year. I am using 125gn hand loads @ 2300 FPS.I would never think about using it on Elk. I know it's been done but, I would not risk the chance of wounding one.I might take mine also, when I take my son this year he has 243, which will work for longer range,and take my 300 blk for close up stuff , which he is pretty good shooting both ,i think it would be a great starter caliber if it was single shot or something.
Post by: hunter399 on October 12, 2016, 08:19:14 AM
Post by: Stein on October 12, 2016, 08:24:17 AM
Buying an expensive rifle that shoots expensive ammo and then saying it is all you have just doesn't hold much water.
Post by: Yondering on October 12, 2016, 11:37:47 AM
I'm useing 150grain nosler bt loaded just over 2000 fps which means 100yrds or less , but hopeing it hits hard though.
If you're going to hunt with that, don't you think you should at least use a bullet designed for the velocity you're getting? There are good bullets designed for 300 Blk velocity that work fine on deer; why choose something designed around 308 & 30-06 speeds?
Post by: hendog on October 14, 2016, 07:50:32 AM
I plan on taking my Ruger Mini-14 in 300 Blackout for blacktail deer hunt this year. I am using 125gn hand loads @ 2300 FPS.
What bullet & powder are you using for that?
[/quote]
I made up a hand load to match (Remington 125gn with Win 296 powder) the S&B 124gn factory rounds.
Post by: h20hunter on October 14, 2016, 08:39:22 AM
:bdid:
Maybe its just a figure of speech but hoping isnt good enough. If you dont know it, dont shoot it.
Post by: Stein on October 14, 2016, 09:12:45 AM
Post by: Yondering on October 14, 2016, 10:07:48 AM
A Nosler BT is a poor choice of an elk bullet to begin with. If you are going Nosler, at least use the correct bullet, the Partition. The BT is designed as a small animal bullet for normal sized deer and antelope.
Generally speaking yes, but don't use a Partition in the 300 Blk, there isn't one designed for that velocity range; they are all designed for higher velocity than the 300 can provide.
I would not use this cartridge for elk at all, but for deer the Nosler 125gr BT and the Barnes 110gr black tip are the top choices IMO.
Post by: jasnt on October 14, 2016, 10:20:20 AM
A Nosler BT is a poor choice of an elk bullet to begin with. If you are going Nosler, at least use the correct bullet, the Partition. The BT is designed as a small animal bullet for normal sized deer and antelope.maybe if your a shoulder buster kinda guy but if your a vitals guy at 300blk speeds I think the bt would be my choice if I had no other choice of cartrage
Post by: mountainman on October 14, 2016, 12:42:08 PM
Post by: headshot5 on October 14, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
Post by: Stein on October 14, 2016, 01:47:41 PM
Post by: copasj on October 14, 2016, 08:10:24 PM
Personally I'm not a big fan of saying yes or no to a caliber, everything in life is dependant on circumstances.
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Post by: Stein on October 14, 2016, 09:50:00 PM
Elk ribs are thick and tough and the game deserves using a bullet designed to reliably punch through bone with retained weight and energy, even if just rib as there are no vitals organs on an elk that are not surrounded by bone. People sometimes forget a lung or heart shot isn't always just a few inches of flesh, on an elk you need to punch through a very deep chest cavity and many times bone even on a perfectly placed lung or hear shot. This isn't even considering if your shot is off and hits the front leg or shoulder.
At 60 yards, if I hit that elk with a slow BT, would it have held up and had the power to drive through drive through a rib, have enough retained weight (they are designed for only 50-60% weight retention) and then keep going with enough energy to penetrate both lungs? I can't say that it would do the job with a perfect shot at 60 yards.
If it were me and you handed me that rifle loaded with slow BTs, I wouldn't take the shot at 50 yards. It simply is the wrong choice for the application. You need faster, heavier, stronger bullets for large, tough animals like elk.
Post by: copasj on October 15, 2016, 08:56:28 AM
I'll bet weight retention would be pretty good at those velocities as well. BT's/SST's etc come apart when moving fast, but not so much at lower velocities.
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Post by: mountainman on October 15, 2016, 11:24:26 AM
Post by: bullfisher on October 15, 2016, 09:42:20 PM
So many better choices for an AR.
People push this thing like yuppies push kale... :dunno:
Post by: jay.sharkbait on October 15, 2016, 09:46:20 PM
I just can't figure out the agenda behind this cartridge.
So many better choices for an AR.
People push this thing like yuppies push kale... :dunno:
It works very well in the AR subsonic and suppressed.
Post by: copasj on October 16, 2016, 08:16:54 AM
Close enough to a 30-30 at 100 yards as to make no difference. Not exactly an answer to any prayers. But a decent niche cartridge.
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Post by: lamrith on October 16, 2016, 08:17:35 AM
I just can't figure out the agenda behind this cartridge.It was definitely not designed as a hunting round. It was designed as a possible replacement for 556, offering better down range power on par with the comblock 7.62*39 round. But also to fit in existing AR15/M16 platform with minimum changes. (It is just a barrel swap, everything else is std 556 parts) It was also developed with subsonic and short barrel weapon in mind for use with a suppressor in CQB situations.
So many better choices for an AR.
People push this thing like yuppies push kale... :dunno:
Those last features are what have made it popular with the general public as it has brought subsonic rifle cartridge into the general market and suppressors are legal in most states. That hunters started being interested only makes sense given how big game reacts when the cannons start booming each fall and many areas people hunt the shots are <100yrds.
I said earlier I thought it would be ok for Elk to about 100yrds, I stick by that if you use good hunting specific ammo and are not taking marginal shots. :twocents: Now is it optimal, HECK NO, as mentioned there are much better options, and if someone has a big game caliber in the stable I see no reason to take 300blk out for elk. If it was the only big game legal caliber someone had, keep it under 100yrds and hunt as if you would with a bow, up close and personal and realize you are going to have much less opportunity to harvest due to that limitation.
Post by: lamrith on October 16, 2016, 08:22:21 AM
I do think it has a lot going for it. 30 caliber (cheap, wide selection) bullets. .223 brass, so there is plenty of that as well. And the only part that is different from a 5.56/223 AR is the barrel. From that perspective it's head and shoulders above most other AR-15 alternatives.For big game AR15 the Grendel is a much better option than 300blk and only added needs are a bolt (many grendel barrels come with them) and a magazine, though an AR mag can work in a pinch as the only difference is the follower... Grendel factory ammo is also much cheaper than 300blk ammo (20-25 vs 25-30) and has much longer usable range (~400yrds on elk) and the rounds buck wind extremely well and ballistics of a 308 with very low recoil so even young shooters can enjoy it with no fatigue.
Close enough to a 30-30 at 100 yards as to make no difference. Not exactly an answer to any prayers. But a decent niche cartridge.
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Post by: copasj on October 16, 2016, 10:12:28 AM
That's getting into some pretty significant expense once you change out bolt, mags/follower and barrel. Add in the odd ball cases and less common bullets and we're getting more expensive. And once we start talking long range shots we are out of the niche market and into mainstream. At this point, might as well get a decent bolt gun in 260 Rem or 7mm-08.I do think it has a lot going for it. 30 caliber (cheap, wide selection) bullets. .223 brass, so there is plenty of that as well. And the only part that is different from a 5.56/223 AR is the barrel. From that perspective it's head and shoulders above most other AR-15 alternatives.For big game AR15 the Grendel is a much better option than 300blk and only added needs are a bolt (many grendel barrels come with them) and a magazine, though an AR mag can work in a pinch as the only difference is the follower... Grendel factory ammo is also much cheaper than 300blk ammo (20-25 vs 25-30) and has much longer usable range (~400yrds on elk) and the rounds buck wind extremely well and ballistics of a 308 with very low recoil so even young shooters can enjoy it with no fatigue.
Close enough to a 30-30 at 100 yards as to make no difference. Not exactly an answer to any prayers. But a decent niche cartridge.
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On the other hand, last night I ordered everything I needed to convert one of my AR's to 300 Blackout (Blacktails, not Elk though). Out the door at Brownells for $200. All I needed was a barrel, flash hider and dies. Everything else is common enough that I already have stuff on hand. I might even be able to make my 30 caliber 150gr cast mold for my 30-30 work. Even if it doesn't, I have plenty of 130gr speer hollowpoints from the 308. That is what I think makes the 300 blackout really shine.
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Post by: lamrith on October 16, 2016, 11:29:50 AM
True you can build a 300blk a little cheaper. $300 6.5 barrel and bolt from Brownells that shoots submoa all day long though is not bad. Mind you it is bolt only, not complete bcg that you need to change. 300blk barrels can be had cheap but most are not submoa shooters and we are talking as an elk round. $20-25 mag that as mentioned you do not HAVE to have a std mag will work in a pinch.That's getting into some pretty significant expense once you change out bolt, mags/follower and barrel. Add in the odd ball cases and less common bullets and we're getting more expensive. And once we start talking long range shots we are out of the niche market and into mainstream. At this point, might as well get a decent bolt gun in 260 Rem or 7mm-08.I do think it has a lot going for it. 30 caliber (cheap, wide selection) bullets. .223 brass, so there is plenty of that as well. And the only part that is different from a 5.56/223 AR is the barrel. From that perspective it's head and shoulders above most other AR-15 alternatives.For big game AR15 the Grendel is a much better option than 300blk and only added needs are a bolt (many grendel barrels come with them) and a magazine, though an AR mag can work in a pinch as the only difference is the follower... Grendel factory ammo is also much cheaper than 300blk ammo (20-25 vs 25-30) and has much longer usable range (~400yrds on elk) and the rounds buck wind extremely well and ballistics of a 308 with very low recoil so even young shooters can enjoy it with no fatigue.
Close enough to a 30-30 at 100 yards as to make no difference. Not exactly an answer to any prayers. But a decent niche cartridge.
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On the other hand, last night I ordered everything I needed to convert one of my AR's to 300 Blackout (Blacktails, not Elk though). Out the door at Brownells for $200. All I needed was a barrel, flash hider and dies. Everything else is common enough that I already have stuff on hand. I might even be able to make my 30 caliber 150gr cast mold for my 30-30 work. Even if it doesn't, I have plenty of 130gr speer hollowpoints from the 308. That is what I think makes the 300 blackout really shine.
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If you are not a reloader, grendel is cheaper long term. Grendel SST ammo is regularly $20/box, the 300blk hunting rounds I could find were $25-30. Brass is the only handicap to reloading grendel, bullets are all over, as they fit the other 6.5 calibers just like 300blk uses 30cal. Run factory ammo for a while to break in the gun and then you have brass, heck I know guys that run only factory ammo and sell the brass to other grendel guys for like .30-50/case and shoot for VERY cheap because of it. If you already load for 308/30-06 yeah 300blk makes lots of sense for sure to share bullets.
I was sticking with the AR platform as that is what was previously mentioned, but my original write up I had said the same thing. I hunt with a AR in grendel, but honestly for a hunting only rig, I would recommend a bolt gun to most people over an AR. No big issue, just little things make a bolt gun a better fit for most people imho, plus cost. $300 at any sporting good store and you walk out with a Savage Axis XP with a scope in any big game caliber you want. Add some ammo to sight it in and you are set for <$350 for a complete weapon, not just a new upper for an existing rig.
Don't get me wrong I have 300blk and love it, carried mine all day yesterday in the rain hunting blacktail while the kid had the grendel. But as a elk round there is no comparison and while usable there are much better options for not much $.