Post by: JDHasty on November 16, 2016, 07:38:30 PM
I saw him crossing a road last year about a quarter mile from where I found the bones scattered.
The place I found him is kind of a deer graveyard. Me thinks it is where they go to try and recuperate or maybe to die. It's deep and dark and I find a lot of skeletons in there.
This one had large bones shattered, hit by motor vehicle is my guess.
Post by: KFhunter on November 16, 2016, 07:40:19 PM
Post by: NRA4LIFE on November 16, 2016, 07:41:22 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on November 16, 2016, 07:46:24 PM
Post by: Holg3107 on November 16, 2016, 07:46:36 PM
Post by: JDHasty on November 16, 2016, 07:46:56 PM
Post by: Hoythunter on November 16, 2016, 08:00:19 PM
Post by: Timberstalker on November 16, 2016, 08:02:08 PM
Obviously stirring the pot with his vast knowledge :chuckle:
:chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on November 16, 2016, 08:26:23 PM
Yep, you learned internet police are waiting at every corner for the chance to rat you out or tell you what you did wrong. Cool find, I bet. Wouldn't blame you for never posting a pic of it.
That's BS, I see nothing wrong with letting someone know about a law they clearly didn't know about.
Post by: TONTO on November 16, 2016, 08:34:36 PM
Post by: lokidog on November 16, 2016, 08:41:10 PM
Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on November 16, 2016, 08:41:51 PM
Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
I know someone will push the law eventually and screw up a good thing
Post by: JDHasty on November 16, 2016, 08:55:34 PM
Yep, you learned internet police are waiting at every corner for the chance to rat you out or tell you what you did wrong. Cool find, I bet. Wouldn't blame you for never posting a pic of it.
That's BS, I see nothing wrong with letting someone know about a law they clearly didn't know about.
I didn't know a thing about that law. I do now.
The rats in Tacoma are a real nuisance and they chew any antler that lies on the ground for any length of time really badly and it doesn't take them long to do it.
Post by: JakeLand on November 16, 2016, 10:48:06 PM
Post by: TONTO on November 16, 2016, 11:12:41 PM
I wonder the reasoning for not being able to pick a dead head and keeping ...
To curb poaching. They think you are going to shoot an animal, let it rot, and then recover the head.
Post by: Mfowl on November 16, 2016, 11:15:02 PM
I wonder the reasoning for not being able to pick a dead head and keeping ...
So people aren't inclined to poach a buck, then comeback for the head/antlers later and claim it was a deadhead.
Post by: fishnfur on November 16, 2016, 11:21:55 PM
Post by: Hoythunter on November 17, 2016, 07:43:04 AM
Yep, you learned internet police are waiting at every corner for the chance to rat you out or tell you what you did wrong. Cool find, I bet. Wouldn't blame you for never posting a pic of it.
That's BS, I see nothing wrong with letting someone know about a law they clearly didn't know about.
Oh yeah, your first reply clearly did that. What was I thinking. Later
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 17, 2016, 08:54:23 AM
Yep, you learned internet police are waiting at every corner for the chance to rat you out or tell you what you did wrong. Cool find, I bet. Wouldn't blame you for never posting a pic of it.
So are you saying it's a bad thing to warn another hunter that something he's done (and posted on the WWW) is against the law or that we should just ignore the law? Is there another option I hadn't considered? Yours is an interesting perspective.
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 17, 2016, 08:56:40 AM
Well I learned something today, guess I will have to deposit it back where I found it. Luckily it is only a few blocks from my house.
Any day I learn something new is a good day, JD. :tup:
Post by: rtspring on November 17, 2016, 09:11:12 AM
Some things, Actually a hell of a lot of things are best not shared on this site!
Remember, All HuntWa police do the speed limit and use turn signals every time..
Post by: Hoythunter on November 17, 2016, 09:12:50 AM
Well I learned something today, guess I will have to deposit it back where I found it. Luckily it is only a few blocks from my house.
Any day I learn something new is a good day, JD. :tup:
No, for the record I totally agree advising folks about the law. What annoys me to no end is the passive aggressive comments alluding that someone is breaking a law without simply stating it. Lots of fly over comments all over this forum, to each their own I suppose. I'm off to Idaho, with any luck I'll find a dead head and post it up!
Post by: Duckslayer89 on November 17, 2016, 09:27:53 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on November 17, 2016, 10:12:55 AM
:yeah: I just learned a little bit more about the baiting rules on the game camera theft thread. Lot's of great information on here if you are paying attention.Well I learned something today, guess I will have to deposit it back where I found it. Luckily it is only a few blocks from my house.
Any day I learn something new is a good day, JD. :tup:
Post by: Roperfive88 on November 17, 2016, 10:14:33 AM
Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
The law requires you to turn in the horns of a salvaged deer or elk.
Post by: Rainier10 on November 17, 2016, 10:18:27 AM
I didn't know that, thanks.Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
The law requires you to turn in the horns of a salvaged deer or elk.
Post by: bobcat on November 17, 2016, 10:24:21 AM
Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
The law requires you to turn in the horns of a salvaged deer or elk.
Where did you read that? I've seen nothing about turning in the antlers.
Look up WAC 232-12-287
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 17, 2016, 10:29:45 AM
Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
The law requires you to turn in the horns of a salvaged deer or elk.
No it doesn't, the whole animal is yours.
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 17, 2016, 11:49:51 AM
" Loose lips, Sink Ships"
Some things, Actually a hell of a lot of things are best not shared on this site!
Remember, All HuntWa police do the speed limit and use turn signals every time..
Not the point and you know it, Kurt. The guy posted he'd picked up a head. No one ragged on him for it. They just informed him, because he obviously didn't know, that you can't do that here in WA. That's a good thing. Information is power.
Post by: Odell on November 17, 2016, 12:06:38 PM
Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
The law requires you to turn in the horns of a salvaged deer or elk.
No it doesn't.
Post by: Roperfive88 on November 17, 2016, 12:45:01 PM
Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
The law requires you to turn in the horns of a salvaged deer or elk.
No it doesn't.
You are correct. When the law first came out I thought I read some where that you did. After reading again you can keep them.
Post by: predatorpro on November 17, 2016, 01:50:48 PM
Is using a salvage tag for an old deer make you a bad person or something?Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
I know someone will push the law eventually and screw up a good thing
Post by: tjthebest on November 18, 2016, 08:11:12 AM
Is using a salvage tag for an old deer make you a bad person or something?Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
I know someone will push the law eventually and screw up a good thing
Not legal to use a salvage permit on a dead head found in the woods. i found a HUGE 6x6 elk head in the woods and i called WDFW olympia and talked to 3 different people, inlcuding the head warden in my district, and they all said that you cannot use the salvage permit on a dead head. The WAC reads pretty clear on it as well. Its a shame.
Post by: h20hunter on November 18, 2016, 08:25:05 AM
Keep it civil and not personal.
Post by: Buckmark on November 18, 2016, 08:32:13 AM
Post by: KFhunter on November 18, 2016, 08:34:44 AM
Wonder if you can keep a dead head you find on your own private property if you dont remove it from the property?
That's about the same as finding it "in Idaho", it's a stupid law and very difficult to enforce.
As we all know tags are suppose to stay with the meat, in the freezer. I've got dead heads all around the property stuck in various red ant hills.
Whatever enforcement value there used to be with dead heads is gone.
I'm sorry Hoythunter doesn't under stand where I'm coming from or thinks I'm just being "cute" or whatever he thinks from his high horse I don't care.
Picking up a dead head is illegal in WA but it's done all the time and I could care less, it doesn't help catch poachers. I can almost understand big horn sheep heads but I still think we should be able to pick those up and have them pinned. It's ridiculous.
Post by: Odell on November 18, 2016, 02:42:58 PM
Is using a salvage tag for an old deer make you a bad person or something?Would the new salvage law allow for picking up year old road kill? :dunno:
I know someone will push the law eventually and screw up a good thing
Not legal to use a salvage permit on a dead head found in the woods. i found a HUGE 6x6 elk head in the woods and i called WDFW olympia and talked to 3 different people, inlcuding the head warden in my district, and they all said that you cannot use the salvage permit on a dead head. The WAC reads pretty clear on it as well. Its a shame.
Must drive you nuts picturing it rotting in the woods. Send me the coordinates and I'll put your mind at ease.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: millerwheeler on November 18, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on November 18, 2016, 06:28:28 PM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on November 18, 2016, 06:32:13 PM
Everyone here is a criminal... only difference between everyone is some haven't been charged with something yet.
I wish I could remember the name of that book I read many years back about the out of control legal system in America. It's insane.
Post by: JDHasty on November 18, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
This post is exhibit A in the argument against so many dang laws. There are just way too many to keep up with.
Everyone here is a criminal... only difference between everyone is some haven't been charged with something yet.
I wish I could remember the name of that book I read many years back about the out of control legal system in America. It's insane.
I suspect that I had the opportunity to know that I could not do what I did, but don't remember ever seeing that specific law. And here is what is most telling to me, my Game Regs is read from cover to cover with a highlighter in my teeth so that I can grab it and highlight anything I am not intimately familiar with. In fact my Game Regs has been "Exhibit A" for what hunter Ed students' Game Regs should look like due to how dog eared and marked up it always is. I read it, mark it up and reread it every year.
As for picking up that head, my Tribal friends will show me the monster they hunted for three years... that always eluded them... and then winter got him. Did I say the Tribal members I know know their land like their own front room? Yep, I did. And that is because they are out there all the time scouting, and with their families, and they pick up dead heads legally.
I think it is safe to say that everyone knows you cannot pick up a sheep skull, unless you are a Tribal member, and you cannot pick up eagle feathers either... but it never occurred to me that deer and elk were also included in what a person cannot pickup in the field. This is only the second dead head I have caried out of the woods, the first one was a pretty nice, but not spectacular three point that an acquaintance had shot with a 357 Maximum Ruger Single Action revolver that had jumped up and ran off as he approached it with tag in hand. That one was in nice condition and I left it with the property owner who delivered it a very appreciative hunter who was overjoyed that I stumbled across it. No more of that for me either now that I know, you do the math.
Unless a person has some inkling, what would motivate them to go digging through the RCW to find out? Or even to look at the FAQs on WDFWs site to get an answer.
Bottom line there most certainly was no criminal intent involved what so ever, and if someone wants to make the case that I did not do due my diligence... I would just have to say that in my mind, I can say with a clear conscience, that I believe that I have always gone out of my way to know what the Controlling Legal Authority is.
It's not a big deal to me that others took the opportunity to set me straight in their own way, it's all in good fun here, and I am perfectly comfortable being used as an example that will sink in and resonate with others, and that is what I am willing to accept as what all who posted on this topic were doing.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 18, 2016, 07:06:27 PM
Same as a buck.
Prove it. :dunno:
Post by: pcal on November 18, 2016, 07:30:39 PM
Post by: JDHasty on November 18, 2016, 08:32:38 PM
I have a huge pile of racks (over 30)that I tagged since 1979 here in washington.My two sons have contrbuted to the pile,too.I have a # of skulls with horns attached sans tags so how could the law prove that I didnt legally put them in the pile? I used to skin out the heads and let them weather on top of one of my sheds in my back yard so they show as a natural rather than a bleached mount.I did cut the skulls of our 2 deer but the racks were small 4x4&3x2.My point is:Don't talk too much about what you harvested,where or whern you did it.I learned that you always come out with game as if you were poaching because there are few wardens that are hunters in this state and an honest mistake.will cost you dearly.
My kids have a pile of skulls with antlers on them and after we ate the meat it never occurred to retain those tags. Hell, I had the skulls laying under the tree while the meat was at the butcher and in those cases the case could be made... I also normally have a deer hide tanned with hair on, pert near every year, and some of them have passed into possession of friends and relatives and there is no longer a tag that can be associated with them.
What concerns me is: Where does this end? Today I don't know, and what if we have hair on deer hides laying around our house, one or more of the kids will frequently be buried under a pile of deer hides, beaver skins, coon skins, coyote hides, bear rugs, and maybe a bobcat or two thrown into the mix with only their head sticking out while they are watching Pepper Pig or Dora Explorer videos. The cats are sealed, but the rest... if I needed the tags I couldn't stand and deliver if I wanted to.
I am fairly confident that the kids and I made an Indian drum made out of rawhide from a deer I shot has been made 100% "legal," without any tag. But what about the rawhide skin laying in the basement next to an Indian drum hoop that I picked up last month from the tannery? Should I just "self report" and insist that WDFW agents charge me with possessing it without the 2014 tag that belongs to it in order to have a "test case" go through the system, and take it before a jury of my peers in order to set legal precedence that at some point along the way that the tag retention requirement has become so onerous that it is just not reasonable to expect that it can be complied with?
At this point, I just don't know. I'm all about giving law enforcement the tools they need to charge offenders who are deliberately and systematically poaching the game animals that belong to us as residents of the State of Washington. But, my God, at some point the net becomes so all encompassing that it "catches" people who are trying to stay well within the law just because they have no way of knowing what the law is unless they make a career of studying all of it's intricacies.
Post by: Hoythunter on November 18, 2016, 08:51:05 PM
Wonder if you can keep a dead head you find on your own private property if you dont remove it from the property?
That's about the same as finding it "in Idaho", it's a stupid law and very difficult to enforce.
As we all know tags are suppose to stay with the meat, in the freezer. I've got dead heads all around the property stuck in various red ant hills.
Whatever enforcement value there used to be with dead heads is gone.
I'm sorry Hoythunter doesn't under stand where I'm coming from or thinks I'm just being "cute" or whatever he thinks from his high horse I don't care.
Picking up a dead head is illegal in WA but it's done all the time and I could care less, it doesn't help catch poachers. I can almost understand big horn sheep heads but I still think we should be able to pick those up and have them pinned. It's ridiculous.
Get real, your reply was "where did you find a BT in Idaho?" But then again, you don't care, right? another fly over post. Get to the point already. Your posts swing from both sides of the plate. If you could care less you would've never allocated he's doing something illegal, as you did. Don't usually bite but I did. Damn, time to get back up on my horse.
Post by: wendigo on November 18, 2016, 09:38:13 PM
Post by: JDHasty on November 18, 2016, 09:56:39 PM
Wonder if you can keep a dead head you find on your own private property if you dont remove it from the property?
That's about the same as finding it "in Idaho", it's a stupid law and very difficult to enforce.
As we all know tags are suppose to stay with the meat, in the freezer. I've got dead heads all around the property stuck in various red ant hills.
Whatever enforcement value there used to be with dead heads is gone.
I'm sorry Hoythunter doesn't under stand where I'm coming from or thinks I'm just being "cute" or whatever he thinks from his high horse I don't care.
Picking up a dead head is illegal in WA but it's done all the time and I could care less, it doesn't help catch poachers. I can almost understand big horn sheep heads but I still think we should be able to pick those up and have them pinned. It's ridiculous.
Get real, your reply was "where did you find a BT in Idaho?" But then again, you don't care, right? another fly over post. Get to the point already. Your posts swing from both sides of the plate. If you could care less you would've never allocated he's doing something illegal, as you did. Don't usually bite but I did. Damn, time to get back up on my horse.
If it does actually does help to prosecute poachers I am all or it, with the caveat that it does not become so all encompassing that the net cast could "catch" anyone regardless of their intent and desire to not be violating in any way shape or form and place them at the mercy of the legal system.
I understand full well that "officers discretion" plays an important part in retaining some useful tools for use when a LEO suspects a deliberate and/or systematic attempt to charge and thereby throw the door wide open to a full blown investigation and as someone who opened that door by posting what I posted at the top of this thread, I would love it if such a trivial matter as picking up a dead head was the chink in the armor that allowed WDFW enforcement the opportunity they have been patiently waiting for. Let no one be confused however, I just don't know how I reconcile that desire with a desire to not see innocent oversight to result in a violation.
To b perfectly clear, I trust our game wardens to want to do what is reasonable, but I also recognize that sometimes that trust is, maybe not unwarranted, but in my estimation, poor judgement rears it's ugly head and someone who just made an honest mistake is charged.
It is important to understand the distinction I am making. I truly want there to be weak points in the defense of serial of blatant violators defense that allow lw enforcement to get behind those defenses and go to town once the defensive line has been breached, but the last thing I want to see is a good man who has made an honest mistake drug through the legal system. It really is a "push me, pull you" scenario.
I want those who are constantly just that much over the line to get a "wake up call" and for them to decide that to stay well within the law, but I do not want to see good and honest sportsmen and women to be "collateral damage" in any effort to achieve that end. And what I really, really do not want to see is for our wildlife enforcement officers lose an effective tool to "kick the door in go in and do an anal exam" when they are doing what we want them to do against serial or blatant game law violators. I will go even further and clarify that many "good and honest men" have used poor judgement and knowingly and of their own free will decided to violate, and this is an isolated occurrence that was not premeditated, but it was willful and knowingly a violation. If what it takes to kick their door down and gather further evidence... hey I am all for the law being on the books. They are there for us, let's give them this tool.
I just don't know how to reconcile my desire for giving every tool our game enforcement officers need to go to town on violators cannot end up with someone's innocent mistake in taking home a dead head ending up with them in the dock defending themselves when doing so really doesn't, in my mind, demand much, if any, due diligence that goes beyond reading and understanding the Annual Game Regs that are published and distributed.
Post by: Buckhunter28 on November 19, 2016, 12:03:22 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 20, 2016, 11:29:47 AM
Wonder if you can keep a dead head you find on your own private property if you dont remove it from the property?
That's about the same as finding it "in Idaho", it's a stupid law and very difficult to enforce.
As we all know tags are suppose to stay with the meat, in the freezer. I've got dead heads all around the property stuck in various red ant hills.
Whatever enforcement value there used to be with dead heads is gone.
I'm sorry Hoythunter doesn't under stand where I'm coming from or thinks I'm just being "cute" or whatever he thinks from his high horse I don't care.
Picking up a dead head is illegal in WA but it's done all the time and I could care less, it doesn't help catch poachers. I can almost understand big horn sheep heads but I still think we should be able to pick those up and have them pinned. It's ridiculous.
Get real, your reply was "where did you find a BT in Idaho?" But then again, you don't care, right? another fly over post. Get to the point already. Your posts swing from both sides of the plate. If you could care less you would've never allocated he's doing something illegal, as you did. Don't usually bite but I did. Damn, time to get back up on my horse.
If my statement about "finding it in ID" gets you all puckered up then so be it and if that's your biggest complaint in life...man I want to trade.
I'm still not sure why you got all butt hurt when I was talking to JD, that comment was meant to get JD to ask questions..which he did. It was just my way of opening up a dialog on this issue and at the same time show just how much I support this ill conceived law; keep in mind it's against forum policy to advocate breaking the law so I must beat around the bush here.
Clearly you already knew this was illegal in WA but -for some reason that escapes me- you decided to interject your opinion and show everyone on HW your charming demeanor.
Quote
If you could care less you would've never allocated he's doing something illegal, as you did.I do care. I do not want any hunters to fall victim to an ill conceived law. I'm not one of those types that keep their mouths shut when someone is doing something that could get them in trouble unless there is turpitude, then I smile and hand them more rope.