Hunting Washington Forum

Other Activities => Trapping => Topic started by: sivart33 on December 23, 2016, 06:33:17 PM

Title: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on December 23, 2016, 06:33:17 PM: I am completely green to trapping. How would you do sets in faster body's of water? I live on a creek but the water speed is much more then I see in any video. That faster western wa creek. Maybe 600 cfm but that is a total guess, so take that with a grain of salt.

I see a lot of beaver sign so not worried about if they are around. Don't know if rats live in the faster water. I am testing out sets now but feel lost when setting a swim through trap when none of it is to slow some side washes but water level dictates if they work.

I can get a picture up when ever I can figure this thing out with my phone..
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Norman89 on December 23, 2016, 06:50:53 PM: Depends what kinds of traps you are running. My beaver cages are conibear triggers and i have issues with the faster waters here in the mountain creeks setting them off a lot. Any debris hits the trigger even a leaf and now I have a trap with closed doors. Bear hunter will probably chime in he suggested a strand or two of 4 lb test monofiliment tyeing the triggers in place a beaver or otter swimming at speed should break the mono easily and allow the trap to go off. I have not implemented the technique yet but its one in the bag to try. The mountain creeks I trap also have seriously fluctuating water levels I have to contend with as well. For my muskrat traps I have tried a few different methods of weighing down the doors to help them close in the faster water. Hope this helps
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: jasnt on December 23, 2016, 07:09:57 PM: I would try it myself. I was surprised how fast of water I was able to set with my traps. They are coni triggers but I use a very strong door spring which ime makes the trigger stiffer. If it dosent stay set I would try upping the spring pressure by adding an Extra spring or 2. I use trampoline springs on my traps
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: ouchfoss on December 23, 2016, 07:49:52 PM: Depending on how your trigger is setup (if its a conibear Trigger) I just bend the rod holding it so that its "grabbing" more of the main frame and therefore less touchy to going off. When I first started trapping I thought that you had to have a hair trigger and for swim thru drown sets, I figured out that is not the case. Once a beaver or otter commits to swimming through your cage, they are pushing real hard and will trip even the hardest set trigger. You might lose some muskrat that way but your still going to get every otter or beaver that swims through your set. I've also started having shorter trigger rods put in my cages as well. My thoughts on that is if a stick or big leaf floats thru, there's more of a chance of it not even touching the trigger and if one does, a shorter rod has less leverage and therefore requires faster current to trip it versus a longer one. I have one trap that is 10x12x48 and somehow the rod got most of the way broke off one day to where its like maybe 3 inches long and I just left it alone thinking its still long enough to get triggered if a beaver swims through. I ended up catching 2 more beavers and a large muskrat with that trap that season and several times when I checked it, there were leaves and small sticks stuck to the trigger from a heavy rain the day before and it had not been tripped.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on December 23, 2016, 07:55:43 PM: I was more looking for location in the faster water but all this info is helping me understand a lot.

A lot of this and log jams. Should I be looking at the broken banks or root balls/ log jams?

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyDDl6cN.jpg&hash=a0b935afc13a50424966fdc71a7323a1e1dcb447) (http://imgur.com/yDDl6cN)
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: huntingfool7 on December 23, 2016, 08:28:15 PM: tagging
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Humptulips on December 23, 2016, 10:18:10 PM: I'll agree with Ouchfoss that you can go with quite a stiff trigger. Sometimes you get to a stream and you want to set in a spot that your trigger is just going to go off. No need to give up, go home and file the dog. Just take your clippers and cut a small branch like a willow whip and stick it through the cage wire on the downstream side of the trigger so that the trigger can rest against the stick. Supports the trigger against the current and believe me anything going through will still spring the trap.
One spot I set the current was so strong I had a devil of a time keeping the trap in place. Had it wire to the bank and stakes stuck through the cage. The stick I had through kept the trap from spring though and I caught beaver, otter and even muskrat in it.

In the picture above I would probably be looking for a side channel or a feeder stream to set in. You can make bottom edge sets too. All water animals are going to tend to follow the deep side of the stream. Look for a squared off bank or even a bit of a cut bank where the water is hopefully not a lot deeper then your trap and set the edge with some guiding sticks put in kind of like wings for a little ways.
Depending on the stream though these can be fish catchers. Not the end of the world if you catch one once in a while but you can't catch fur if you are always turning fish loose. If there are spawned out salmon cruising about best to forget it as you will catch the same ones time after time.
Experience and learning to read sign along with thinking like a beaver, otter or whatever is really the key most of the time.
When you are using swim throughs you are blind setting and sometimes it takes a lot of hiking up and down a stream to find the key spots. A stream like pictured might literally have one really great spot to set but that one spot will catch every beaver and otter on the stream given time. You just have to find it.
Other streams maybe it is easy to find a good spot or several good spots. My biggest thrill always was finding a really great spot.
Sometimes you'll know you hit the mother load as soon as you see it. Other times you don't realize until you make a few catches.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: redi on December 23, 2016, 10:20:01 PM: I look for narrow channels about 2 feet wide that funnel the beaver into the trap. I also look for side creeks where the beavers are working on trees. If there is a dam and ponds you can find a natural "slot that y our trap will fill and be successful. Good luck.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: JakeLand on December 24, 2016, 08:47:29 AM: Some of the ditches I trap beaver in flow pretty good but my main issue was debri floating into the swim through and building up on the triggers and firing off the trap
So what I started doing was about 10-15 feet upstream I would drive a small diameter pole on the middle of the ditch and I wasn't getting any debri in them but was still catching critters
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on December 24, 2016, 01:42:51 PM: This will give you a better idea what it looks like.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAvv2kiW.jpg&hash=dbc92043e690dd82d9ee0e35fa18c5a4216004ec) (http://imgur.com/Avv2kiW)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFOPNLla.jpg&hash=f7486405c61ce7bc054f3bace6b351dfda037552) (http://imgur.com/FOPNLla)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsXBfo4g.jpg&hash=57bab3cf18900bec0e931c35f407fe931d4ca2b0) (http://imgur.com/sXBfo4g)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FW5aTHui.jpg&hash=d809f8b85e25dd6b6743f086559e8cc041e9fb39) (http://imgur.com/W5aTHui)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyEXEDnp.jpg&hash=3e0cc2441b588c557fd06f41597947434786c018) (http://imgur.com/yEXEDnp)
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Norman89 on December 24, 2016, 01:59:10 PM: I can see one good spot. That log just over the surface in the second pic find the deepest spot and set under the log. Natural dive point can fence down a bit to funnel them in
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Carp Commander on December 24, 2016, 02:33:27 PM: It's hard to tell by photo but that doesn't look any faster than the stuff I trap. I would find your pinch points and just set it. I once took a bread sack tie and gave it a single wrap just to be sure but in hindsight I don't think it made any difference. Debris can be a problem but it's mitigated by checking ever day.

The inside bends of the river typical are not as swift. I will also set perpendicular to the flow in places where they are climbing up. Just don't wire a dive stick to your trap unless you have the trap wired off.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: jasnt on December 24, 2016, 04:43:05 PM: Quote from: Carp Commander on December 24, 2016, 02:33:27 PM
It's hard to tell by photo but that doesn't look any faster than the stuff I trap. I would find your pinch points and just set it. I once took a bread sack tie and gave it a single wrap just to be sure but in hindsight I don't think it made any difference. Debris can be a problem but it's mitigated by checking ever day.

The inside bends of the river typical are not as swift. I will also set perpendicular to the flow in places where they are climbing up. Just don't wire a dive stick to your trap unless you have the trap wired off.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Norman89 on December 24, 2016, 05:30:09 PM: Learned last year and this year again: ALWAYS CABLE OR TIE YOUR TRAPS DOWN! Flash flood came through and pushed two beaver traps 25 yards down creek. Took me hours to find them :bash: now all my traps have a piece of 1/8 " cable with ring on the end. Rebar stakes keep things in place well :tup:
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: jasnt on December 24, 2016, 06:08:42 PM: Quote from: Norman89 on December 24, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
Learned last year and this year again: ALWAYS CABLE OR TIE YOUR TRAPS DOWN! Flash flood came through and pushed two beaver traps 25 yards down creek. Took me hours to find them :bash: now all my traps have a piece of 1/8 " cable with ring on the end. Rebar stakes keep things in place well :tup:
i just use tie-wire but yes always tether....always. Every trap, not just water sets
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Humptulips on December 24, 2016, 07:44:43 PM: Truthfully it doesn't strike me as a great place for a trap but let's say you're forced into that spot.
In the second picture I would look at that cut bank above the cedar tree for a possible edge set. You need a place where you can get the trap underwater but not super deep. It'll be a problem with getting your guide sticks to stay but there is a possibility.

Beaver sign, one tree cut down doesn't mean you have beaver there and it doesn't look that fresh to me. I really think you need to spend more time exploring. When you come to a great place you probably won't have any doubts :DOH:
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: huntingfool7 on December 24, 2016, 09:33:00 PM: Jim Comstock runs his traps upside down. It makes the opening look a couple inches taller.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on December 25, 2016, 06:50:15 AM: Quote from: Humptulips on December 24, 2016, 07:44:43 PM
Truthfully it doesn't strike me as a great place for a trap but let's say you're forced into that spot.
In the second picture I would look at that cut bank above the cedar tree for a possible edge set. You need a place where you can get the trap underwater but not super deep. It'll be a problem with getting your guide sticks to stay but there is a possibility.

Beaver sign, one tree cut down doesn't mean you have beaver there and it doesn't look that fresh to me. I really think you need to spend more time exploring. When you come to a great place you probably won't have any doubts :DOH:

There is a lot more sign then that, Some bites that look red and daily fresh. Some fresher sign that was just some of it. I just trap there since it is a ten min walk from my front door. It's not ideal, but it's costing nothing in gas. I can move up and down the creek a ways but don't see full damn built. Should there be anything in the river worth trapping?

Thank you to anyone that has replied, I really can't believe how many people are helping. I am really appreciative of everything.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Humptulips on December 25, 2016, 10:38:20 AM: Looks as likely a place to get an otter as it does a beaver. If it is that close to home and you're thinking beaver you might consider finding a place where they are coming out regularly and put in a scent set. That would be primarily a dry land set although partially in the water.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Norman89 on December 25, 2016, 11:09:01 AM: I would like to know how you make you scent sets Bruce two years now I have been using Dobbins backbreaker and predator control group flat tail all call with zero results. Castor mounds or scented triggers in the trap with no reaction at all. IV given up on scented sets after my results. Tried multiple times in several active locations with game cams. Nothing at all
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Bigbadwolfwdc on December 25, 2016, 12:20:41 PM: Quote from: Norman89 on December 25, 2016, 11:09:01 AM
I would like to know how you make you scent sets Bruce two years now I have been using Dobbins backbreaker and predator control group flat tail all call with zero results. Castor mounds or scented triggers in the trap with no reaction at all. IV given up on scented sets after my results. Tried multiple times in several active locations with game cams. Nothing at all

I may not be the best to give advice for beaver as Im still learning to trap them myself. But what I have learned from others and read is castor is over used in sets. If the area is traped alot the animals become shy of castor. Ive been told that food base lure and visual is the way to go for sets first. Then use castor base lures after to finish them up. Probably not the answer you are looking for but maybe it will help. More than happy to read what experienced beaver traps have to say.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: JakeLand on December 25, 2016, 10:30:27 PM: Quote from: Norman89 on December 25, 2016, 11:09:01 AM
I would like to know how you make you scent sets Bruce two years now I have been using Dobbins backbreaker and predator control group flat tail all call with zero results. Castor mounds or scented triggers in the trap with no reaction at all. IV given up on scented sets after my results. Tried multiple times in several active locations with game cams. Nothing at all

I've even using back breaker it's my favorite I've caught 11 beaver on a nuisance job and 2 bobcats with it so far
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Humptulips on December 25, 2016, 10:35:40 PM: I'm suggesting a scent set to the OP based more on the fact that a swim through set doesn't look in the cards given the pictures.
I personally never use scent sets but others do with some success. I have been out with fatslinger when she has caught beavers this way in cage traps. Perhaps better for her to explain the how to.
Also a lot of guys use Hancocks and that is mostly a scent set type trap so I'm pretty sure it works.
I used to use scent sets before cage traps with good success. That type set with a foot trap probably not worth talking about in this context but I made scent sets with conibears. Especially useful in tidal areas for me.
The beaver has to enter that square so it seems like somewhat similar at least from the beavers standpoint. I would set in a good trail preferably in the water with scent behind and caught beaver.
What I have observed others doing is pretty much the same with a cage. Good trail or shallow channel, peeled poplar, cottonwood or maple in the back as a food lure/eye appeal and some castor lure suspended in the back of the trap.
I hope others more experienced with this type set will chime in.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on December 27, 2016, 05:03:22 PM: Moved the set to new better looking location. Found a lot more local sign and what seems to be a dam.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FxIJvYmT.jpg&hash=e108c8d559ee0541dbb8ad0f5030da185ce065bc) (http://imgur.com/xIJvYmT)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fj5a8tlD.jpg&hash=380ee2982afb1dfd40b74b87b1ae23894fce1d8b) (http://imgur.com/j5a8tlD)
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Turner89 on December 28, 2016, 09:33:48 PM: Hard to tell for me, but that's a double doors swim through trap right? You want to find a spot that you can get the whole trap under water. That second pic looks to have some possible sets that you can make work. I'd look at that log in the lower left of the picture.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Turner89 on December 28, 2016, 09:36:34 PM: Actually it's the middle of pic at the bottom
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on December 29, 2016, 06:50:38 AM: Yesterday checking on the trap I was debating about moving it where you explained. I'll move it there later today. If anyone is near kitsap area and wants someone to carry out traps I'll carry traps to be a student. Thanks for all the help, I'll eventually figure it out.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on January 09, 2017, 07:26:33 PM: Well today it happened. My first catch. Thank you for everyone, and turner89 extra thanks. Moved it where you mentioned. Now I am hooked and got some skinning to do.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3oRR2uc.jpg&hash=dd0b4e16c27eaca2da2887b717dda6f954fe8f64) (http://imgur.com/3oRR2uc) :dunno:

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCf03KzD.jpg&hash=99b56907b07a8453678ac04648e86c87e81239c0) (http://imgur.com/Cf03KzD)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8hXnAYB.jpg&hash=837079b1a2af3713448827b91887b5fbaf3a1ae2) (http://imgur.com/8hXnAYB)
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Norman89 on January 09, 2017, 07:56:19 PM: Congrats on your first bud!
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Machias on January 09, 2017, 08:10:58 PM: Sweet, nice job!!! Congrats!
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Turner89 on January 09, 2017, 08:29:42 PM: Nice job :tup:
That's a big otter.....my favorite fur bearer.
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: jasnt on January 09, 2017, 08:34:39 PM: Congrats
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: JakeLand on January 09, 2017, 08:54:43 PM: Nice catch! Now you're on the scoreboard
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: huntingfool7 on January 09, 2017, 09:05:41 PM: Awesome! Just Freaking Awesome!
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: redi on January 10, 2017, 07:53:07 AM: Great otter. Congrats
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: ouchfoss on January 10, 2017, 09:19:16 PM: Nice! :tup:
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Kit Carson on January 12, 2017, 11:09:54 PM: Great job! :tup:
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on January 13, 2017, 05:21:46 PM: Measured out to 41" on the board but I know I still got work to do fleshing. It was a tough learning curve.

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Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Norman89 on January 13, 2017, 05:26:07 PM: Every critter is! Muskrats are pretty easy. Im have a hard time fleshing these beaver. Have an,old trapper friend who is stopping by to show me some tricks I think that is the best route to learn how to do it
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on January 13, 2017, 05:44:45 PM: Wish I knew a trapper but I know none in the area

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Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Humptulips on January 13, 2017, 07:15:56 PM: Ron Qualman WSTA Kitsap County Rep Seabeck WA (360)830-5110
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: Norman89 on January 13, 2017, 07:19:26 PM: :yeah: there you go! Thanks Bruce!
Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: sivart33 on January 13, 2017, 07:33:20 PM: Thank you.

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Title: Re: Faster creeks
Post by: bear hunter on January 14, 2017, 04:55:56 PM: :tup: