Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Bird Dogs => Topic started by: EbrgHunt on February 16, 2009, 11:03:18 AM

Title: E-Collar
Post by: EbrgHunt on February 16, 2009, 11:03:18 AM: Just picked up the Sportdog 800 in camo for my 9 month old lab. Was wondering if anyone had any pointers of effective training outside the dvd that came with it. She knows her commands but is not always so quick to obey them so i thought this would be a good tool to reinforce that. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: Happy Gilmore on February 16, 2009, 05:01:36 PM: What do you plan on using the collar for? What specifics?
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: EbrgHunt on February 16, 2009, 06:08:54 PM: First and foremost as a sort of insurance policy if she breaks on a bird or other animal. I want something to break her attention to keep her safe. Then i really would like to use it to refine her obedience and hunting/retrieving skills. She can be a little bit un focused sometimes. As far as upland game i would like to use it to teach her quartering in the field so she can hunt more efficiently. At this point she has the drive but is not hunting systematically or efficiently. Waterfowl was not extremely successful this year because i think she was still a little bit young. She was extremely excited and would whine quite a bit. However, with some hard work i think i can have a productive year with her next season.
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: Happy Gilmore on February 17, 2009, 08:38:58 AM: Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you don't really understand what the collar is used for. The collar is used for teaching many things. You should have a very defined game plan put together before you ever strap the collar on the dog.

Most people think the collar is used for stopping a dog from doing something. For obedience and control, you teach that without the collar. If you don't have control at 10 feet, you will never have control at 100 feet with or without the collar. Using the collar for punishment on lessons which he doesn't completely understand will cause a whole bunch of resentment and grow into bigger and bigger problems which are 10X harder to cure than spending an extra month with pup on a long lead. The collar should only be used when you are 100% certain the dog knows what you are asking (or not wanting) him to do.

I'm not saying don't use the collar, just have a written training plan and goals before you use it. This will help define steps you are accomplishing and will also let you be specific on what type of training you will do as your pup progresses.

Buying a more complete DVD set than the ones that come with the collars is a real good idea. A $100 investment in a few dvds is pretty cheap considering how much better it will make you and the dog.

If you don't completely, 100% understand what the collar is used for and why I would recommend not using one. It only takes a few poorly timed corrections to mess up your dog up for a long time. It is a lot easier to keep your dog on a long lead and make physical and verbal corrections for obedience than it is to fix problems a collar can cause in a couple short training sessions...Believe me, I have made many mistakes that have taken a long time to fix and I have worked with a pro trainer for a few years when I made a few of them. Mistakes of putting too much pressure on the dog, poorly timed corrections all cause immediate problems and some that pop up later...

I'll look up a few DVD's and books I think are really helpful and post them later.

Just friendly advice......Hap
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: EbrgHunt on February 17, 2009, 09:13:20 AM: Not taken the wrong way at all. I completely understand what you are saying and appreciate it. She absolutely knows what is expected of her by now thats what i have decided in the collar. I have used one prior that was borrowed from a family friend and it worked wonders. I have read the horror stories of dogs being ruined by the pressure of an E-collar. When i put that on and tested it with the lowest intensity, she responded quickly and precisely to all my commands. I was just more looking for some pointers from people who currently use them or have used them in the past and their sucessess or problems. I do thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my post though, as i am new to the site, new to hunting, and somewhat new to dog training. I look forward to the list of DVD's you reccomend because i do not believe there is such a thing of too much knowledge.
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: Happy Gilmore on February 17, 2009, 12:25:09 PM: The Smartworks series by Evan Graham
The Basics by Danny Farmer and Judy Aycock
Fowl Dogs 1,2,3 by Rick Stawski

I have the Smartworks Transition series which is for advanced work. I do really like Evan's style of teaching. He is big on drills and having a plan laid out for your training progression.

http://www.rushcreekpress.com/ Evan Graham Website

http://www.dannyfarmer.com/ Danny Farmer Site

https://www.coonriverkennels.com/pages/product.asp?cat=28&code=STAHLDVD-FD1 Fowl Dogs
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: Happy Gilmore on February 17, 2009, 12:30:02 PM: Lee Salmon is over in Ephrata. She has reasonable training rates. It might be worth spending a few visits with a pro to get you started and give you some homework. Her contact information is below. You also have the pointing lab guys who should be able to help with basics who are right in E-burg. Also Gary out at Cooke could provide some help too. It is worth every penny to spend at least a few sessions with a pro when you are starting. Helps avoid mistakes.

http://www.windriverlabs.com/wind_river_websi_000001.htm
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: Wayne1 on February 17, 2009, 01:36:29 PM: Evan Graham's Smartfetch, and Smartwork program are awesome... sometime's I have trouble following what he says sometime's, but there are alot of amature dog trainers that follow his program, and they generally can clear up any not understanding that I may have had.

Rick Stawski with Fowl Dawgs 1, 2, 3, are really easy to follow, and I really like his manners, with the dog's.

Keep us posted on your's and your pup's progress :)

generally the first e-collar work I do with my pups is CC [collar conditioning] to "Here"
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: RPM on February 21, 2009, 04:09:38 AM: go to dobbs dogs. you'll find everything about collartraing there. the three step collar conditoining is the most important you get that down then you can use a collar for any thing.you still have to teach the commands the collar is just for back up. and if you are close to lee salmon she would be a big help .i've trained with and around her for yrs.
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: captbly on March 31, 2009, 07:55:38 AM: How do you know what the best setting of the collar is for the dog?
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: Machias on March 31, 2009, 08:27:39 AM: Start with the lowest setting and slowly work your way up until you find the lowest setting that gets the desired results.
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: surfj9009 on March 31, 2009, 12:31:11 PM: This is a good thread. I will be getting my forst hnting dog this year and will have a lot of training to do. I had though about a collar, and now I have thought a lot about it. Thanks for the training and DVD references. I will use this info for sure!!! :)
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: Wayne1 on March 31, 2009, 01:35:22 PM: Quote
I will be getting my forst hnting dog this year

Are you talking about Black Forest Kennel's... or just a forest dog ?
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: Huntboy on March 31, 2009, 01:43:05 PM: Start low you want break the habit not the dog.
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: captbly on March 31, 2009, 03:13:25 PM: Is the setting something you guys evalute each training session or every week or month, or just stay at the same setting?

Say I find that at 4 the dog responds... tomorrow to I start all the way back down to 1? Im thinking that maybe once the dog does get the hang of it that, maybe after a month or so, you re-evaluate the setting?
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: gasman on March 31, 2009, 03:21:34 PM: Gradually turn up th eheat until you see a noticeable reaction. When you get a reaction from th edog stop. Use the heat to correct an action but he does not respond turn it up untill he responds. Hold the heat untill he stops doing what he is not supose to be doing. He needs to learn that id he does some thing he is not supose to that the heat will stop when he acrts correctly.

Example: i set mine at 3, for that is the heat he responds to. Yesterday he took off after another dog (wanting to play) and i called him back, he did not listen so increased the heat a little at a time untill he responded to the heat (shock). Unfortunatly it was up to full power before he responded and i felt bad that i gave him so much heat, but that is what it took to get the proper responce from him. After that, turned it back down to the normal settings.

Hope this helps. (this is how i was explained to use it by my trainer)
Title: Re: E-Collar
Post by: captbly on March 31, 2009, 06:54:10 PM: Thanks that helps. I wasnt sure if you stayed with one setting once you had it or if you operated it variable like you mentioned.