Hunting Washington Forum

Other Activities => Shed Hunting => Topic started by: bow4elk on February 16, 2009, 05:31:23 PM

Title: Self Control or State Control
Post by: bow4elk on February 16, 2009, 05:31:23 PM: "They used to go out in April or May, but as shed hunting has become more popular, more and more people are going out earlier, to the point that it's become a factor in the survival of the elk," said Pat Fowler, Washington's wildlife biologist for the Blue Mountains.

"Most elk won't start dropping antlers until late February or March, but we have guys who are out there watching them already. The shed hunters run those hillsides every day and that tends to break up the bull groups, reducing their security, and send them into the deeper snow on the north slopes when they should be down lower where they can expend less energy and find more food.

"I've been trying for years to get some sort of season on shed hunting to prevent disturbing elk on their winter range, but I haven't got anywhere. It would be difficult to manage since the elk are private ground as well as national forests, neither of which the Fish and Wildlife Department controls."
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: agchawk on February 16, 2009, 05:49:42 PM: A few bad apples will always spoil the barrel. If everyone that covets shed antlers cared about the overall health of the wintering herds then this issue would never get risen. However, there are folks out there that want those sheds, or a chance at them, before anyone else and will hit the hills with no regard to the animals they impact.

This state would not be the first to institute a shed hunting season...and will not be the last either.

Myself, I'd support this measure. I'm sure I'll get flamed for that comment but so be it. I am aware that it will not stop everyone because some folks just don't care and laws never seem to stop these types anyway. But, if it offers even a little more protection to wintering herds then I am on board. Unfortunately I believe that my first sentence applies.

There are TOO MANY folks out there that just cannot practice self control...or just refuse to do so.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: bobcat on February 16, 2009, 05:51:26 PM: I wish it were illegal to sell antlers. I think that would solve the problem.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: ThePascoKid on February 16, 2009, 05:58:29 PM: I don't think they should be out this early either but I don't see how they can police this issue, if your out shed hunting and haven't found one that your carrying your basically just hiking, what's to stop people from going "hiking" and just stashing the antlers somewhere no one else will find them until later. I guess you'd basically have to close the area to all activity. Honestly, I'm surprised he didn't mention anything about snowmobilers, maybe he is one.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: fishunt247 on February 16, 2009, 08:02:28 PM: What bobcat said. That's perfect. I know some guys in Yakima that don't hunt at all, but since you can make money off of shed antlers, they go like crazy. I'm not going to say with these guys that they go in closed areas and sell them for drug money, but...
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: jackelope on February 16, 2009, 09:43:03 PM: there are areas in the blues that are currently closed to human entry, just like oak creek. cummins creek is one that comes to mind.
it opens around the spring turkey opener.
the problem is the bad apples are the guys who are selling the sheds, not the guys who like to pick them up and save them as a hobby, like a lot of folks on here.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on February 16, 2009, 09:51:42 PM: Quote from: jackelope on February 16, 2009, 09:43:03 PM
there are areas in the blues that are currently closed to human entry, just like oak creek. cummins creek is one that comes to mind.
it opens around the spring turkey opener.
the problem is the bad apples are the guys who are selling the sheds, not the guys who like to pick them up and save them as a hobby, like a lot of folks on here.

I usually agree with Jackalope, but gotta dispute that one. Both colectors and sellers get so competitive for antlers they forget about the welfare of the antler growers. Ram poaching was pretty well handled by not allowing "pick-up" skulls. I'd hate to see the same for shed antlers, but those rotten apples are such selfish a-holes, I doubt there's another alternative. And yes, I say this with at least 100 deer and elk sheds in my garage.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: jackelope on February 18, 2009, 02:00:45 PM: Quote
And yes, I say this with at least 100 deer and elk sheds in my garage.

but you're doing it the right way.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: BLUEBULLS on February 18, 2009, 02:16:04 PM: I agree with most on this. It is an unethical thing to do (run game around on the winter range) but I spend a ton of time in the blues and try my hardest to watch game from a distance. I'm not sure about other areas but the Elk in the blues are extremely healthy. I've found maybe one or two winter killed elk. They generally do not get much snow that lasts for a period of time. They need to do more to stop poaching if they want to save the blue mountains elk herd.

also, I hardly see anybody near the elk when I'm up scouting.

Kill cats and stop poaching, that's what will save the herd.

just my :twocents:
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: ELKBURGER on February 18, 2009, 02:21:22 PM: There is so much pressure to be the first ones out there. A friend of mine has shown me pictures from a guide of a 400 class bull in the blues. The guide had pictures of the bull days before it shed plus the matching set days after. I believe they were the set to the gov tag bull. Dont know if the guide sold the set to Agnew or not. My friend makes multiple trips over there in early march. I dont think hes aware of the impact on the herds but then again, maybe he doesnt care.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: boneaddict on February 18, 2009, 02:37:23 PM: This last year I showed great restraint and found about 3/4 less than I normally do. This year will be the same. granted this hand is slowing me down but I have decided again not to press them much. Then I get someone on here that nails be about picture taking. Well, for the most part I don't get that close. I did bump into a few elk the other day but they never moved 100 yards from where I saw them. I did practice restraint. My wife even said why didn't you go look for that antler,you know where they were bedded. No thanks I said. I'm just one guy though. I bet there are 30 other newbies out there scouring the hill in my place. Now they will have more bone in their garage than mine.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: big rack attack on February 18, 2009, 06:49:28 PM: When I first started hunting for elk antlers 12 years ago I went in the middle of May and found antlers and no signs of people. Now when I go hunting there are snowmobiles and epically quads that run over every ounce of land I used to hunt. It is not the people on foot as much as the people on the quads and snowmobiles that are chasing the elk into the dangerous areas trying to make their antlers fall off. I look for sheds from Oak Creek towards Chinook Pass and there is guys that spends weeks driving quads through the rattle snake, the Nile, and the little natches . i can hike all day and have a hard time to find a place were a quad hasn't gone.. the authorities don't even care about the quads driving around on forest service roads or all over the hills. i have complained several times to the authorities and they just say there ain't much they can do. so if there is a season on antler hunting it will only stop the honest guy that loves the animals and the guy that don't really care will still be out there causing all the damage
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: 509er on February 18, 2009, 07:16:20 PM: I believe we will have a shed season in the next few years. A lot of guys lack the self control to wait. Sleds, quads, horses, people on foot, the animals don't get a break. Most bucks here in the basin have are still packing or just beginning to drop, yet some guys have been chasing them for weeks, in Wenatchee and Entiat it is even worse, usually they push the deer out of the area. I have been told by a friend these guys know who they are and what they are doing, they hide their vehicles out of sight and sneak in in the dark. Shed hunting brings out the worst in some people. With the amounts of people shed hunting these days, I for one would kinda like to see a shed season, at least then the bucks I find would not get chase out of the area by somebody before they drop. Hell, maybe they could give bonus points for turning in people picking up sheds before the season, maybe that would help keep some people honest. Like I said, I believe it is coming.

Disclaimer:
This is not intended intended or aimed towards any one person, I am talking about shed hunting as a whole.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: bowhuntin on February 18, 2009, 07:24:49 PM: I just read an article about shed hunting in BUGLE that the RMEF puts out every couple of months and some states have some serious penalties for those that push wildlife off the winter ranges while looking for sheds. Fines, loss of hunting privileges, or losing points that they have built up for special draws. It may not stop those that are lawless but some of those penalties would go a long way of keeping people that hunt and look for antlers off the winter range.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: wastickslinger on February 18, 2009, 10:02:08 PM: :dunno:
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: bobcat on February 18, 2009, 10:07:30 PM: Actually don't the laws already on the books apply to shed hunting where people are pushing animals around on winter range and stressing them out? Isn't that called "wildlife harassment?" I believe there's already a law against that.

Wonder why they don't enforce it ???

Oh...I bet I know, the WDFW Law Enforcement officers are probably too busy going after steelhead/salmon fishermen this time of year. :bash:
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: 509er on February 19, 2009, 05:20:29 AM: There you go Duck. ;)
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: turkey slayer on February 19, 2009, 07:25:59 AM: TALK TO GAME WARDEN OUT OF GRANT CO. LAST FRUDAY AND HE SAID IT IS ENFORCED, AND THAT THEY ARE THINKING OF CLOSING 2 AREA SOUTH OF I-90 BUT HE DIDN'T KNOW WHEN THAT WAS GOING TO BE APROVED.AND IT IS WILDLIFE HARASSMENT
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: Gobble Gobble on February 19, 2009, 12:16:15 PM: I started a thread a week or so ago asking about snow levels in the Dayton area as I wanted to do some hiking with my wife for the day (alone time) while the baby was with grandparents. I mentioned shed hunting as well and the :crap: hit the fan. I was told to stay away as my presents in the mountains would pressure the already over pressured animals, that I should just find a park at home to walk around and not think of sheds or the mountains till at least May. Some were cool and suggested I go to a particular area where a lot of day hikers like to go.

Until I started deer hunting I always thought there was a shed season and it was illegal to pick up a shed outside the season. Now that I know the rules and know there isn't one I would have picked up a shed or two in the past.

My :twocents: on this topic is this... Yes, there should be a season but if I want to go spend the day in the mountains enjoying Gods country I will no matter what time of year it is. Yes, there are bad apples who chase the animals and cause problems but I'm not one of them. If I see an animal I'll enjoy it from where I spot it but to tell me just stay away altogether, :pee: on you. I personally feel its those people who want sheds for themselves. I have only picked up one 2 pt shed and I found that this year while stalking a group of deer up a draw I wish to never have to clime again.

To prevent motorized vehicles from causing problems signs need to be put up. Sure some will ignore them like some do with closed gates. I like to block the road with logs and rocks so they have to work to get themselves back out of an area they shouldn't have been driving in to begin with. I did it to some Natives on a closed road once, it was fun.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: groundhog on February 27, 2009, 02:37:41 PM: A shed season is not the answer. Just ask Utah. You can't discriminate against one user. You can't say shed hunters stress wildlife but photographers, rock hounds, bird watchers, Four wheelers and Snowmobile riders don't. The big game doesn't know or care what you are doing on the mountain. If it is a critical wintering area that is seeing too much use and animals are getting too much stress than it needs to be closed to ALL access.
A shed season could actually end up putting more stress on wildlife. The shed hunters would still go but they would stash sheds or kick them into a bush and then come back and get them once the season is open. In effect putting twice as much pressure on the area. This is what happened in Utah. Who me? No I am just lookin for rocks and taken pictures of the scenery. A shed season will not benefit wildlife. If there is a problem than the area needs to be closed to all access! :twocents:
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: 6x6in6 on February 27, 2009, 03:02:17 PM: Quote from: groundhog on February 27, 2009, 02:37:41 PM
A shed season is not the answer. Just ask Utah. You can't discriminate against one user. You can't say shed hunters stress wildlife but photographers, rock hounds, bird watchers, Four wheelers and Snowmobile riders don't. The big game doesn't know or care what you are doing on the mountain. If it is a critical wintering area that is seeing too much use and animals are getting too much stress than it needs to be closed to ALL access.
A shed season could actually end up putting more stress on wildlife. The shed hunters would still go but they would stash sheds or kick them into a bush and then come back and get them once the season is open. In effect putting twice as much pressure on the area. This is what happened in Utah. Who me? No I am just lookin for rocks and taken pictures of the scenery. A shed season will not benefit wildlife. If there is a problem than the area needs to be closed to all access! :twocents:

Yup.
Once again, it boils down to access.
Close off all the areas heavily used by our wintering game to all access and increase the buffer around said areas to insure a lack of disturbance. The areas that see less activity at least motorized vehicle access would help immensely.
Easier I would think to enforce an access rule vs. an I'm looking for pretty rocks and plants walk in the park.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: bowtech721 on February 27, 2009, 07:18:54 PM: Wow... i didnt know that that many people actually go specifically shed hunting to cause such a big problem... Is there really much $$$ to be made from selling them???
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: bow4elk on February 27, 2009, 08:34:41 PM: For many, it is about $$, but for me and I'm sure countless others, it's about the fascination with antlers and the thrill of finding them. The first 5 minutes with a fresh antler is pretty cool. Your mind wanders and you look around and take in the moment where that buck/bull stood. It's crazy and may be strange to some but I don't care...and it's a great way to get your kids outside doing something fun.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: 509er on February 27, 2009, 10:15:55 PM: :yeah:

I would never sell any of mine. bow4elk pretty much summed it up.
Title: Re: Self Control or State Control
Post by: elkaholic on February 28, 2009, 07:41:39 AM: Great restraint and hope many newbies who read the threads will follow suit.