Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 02, 2017, 04:31:42 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on February 02, 2017, 04:42:27 PM
Post by: Bofire on February 02, 2017, 05:16:17 PM
Carl
Post by: bobcat on February 02, 2017, 05:24:07 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 02, 2017, 05:24:47 PM
more info. Wood stock? same ammo? how many times have you had the third shot go sideways? does it always repeat the 3rd and 5th shot go sideways? What kind of rest? factory ammo?
Carl
It's a wood stock gun, same exact ammo Remington core lokts 175. I haven't noticed if it repeats this every 3rd or 5th shot. I'm going back tomorrow morning to the range and I'm going to sit there and let the barrel completely cool to the touch and see what happens after the scrubbing I did and everything. If it won't shoot I'm taking the scope off and putting it away getting frustrated!!
I used a torque wrench and loc tite on everything, scope bases and rings very tight but I thought the same thing
I'll be at Tacoma Sportsmans club at the members range in the AM. I'm using just my gun vise as a rest not putting any torque on the gun or clamping the gun just resting the front of the stock on it nice and easy super solid though
Also it's only moving side to side not up or down
Post by: brew on February 02, 2017, 06:20:22 PM
Post by: mountainman on February 02, 2017, 06:23:08 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 02, 2017, 06:23:32 PM
in my experience a shot moving just laterally is the pressure put on the trigger not pulling it straight back---but i can't see it moving POI 10 inches with just trigger pull....even though the scope is new it may still be defective. i've never had core lockts shoot clover leafs but that group is rediculous
It's not even a group it's like a shotgun blast. First three grouped like 3 inches. I'm wondering if it's just really heat sensitive. If I can't figure it out tomorrow I'm probably done buying ammo for it trying to figure it out
Post by: bobcat on February 02, 2017, 06:27:59 PM
Post by: Bofire on February 02, 2017, 06:29:24 PM
Carl
Post by: Alchase on February 02, 2017, 06:39:52 PM
And two pickup another brick of different ammo. The only time I have seen radical flyers like this (eliminating the human part) is rings/base not secure. If the gun does not like the ammo, it can cause some good inconsistencies. I have never seen 10 inches of difference in 100 yards caused by ammo though. I have seen flyers like this caused by the shooter anticipating the shot.
Post by: dyhardhuntr on February 02, 2017, 06:42:59 PM
Post by: Alchase on February 02, 2017, 06:54:48 PM
My ruger 7mm did the same thing.(still does a little). I would shoot 2 shots decent and 1 flyer. I bedded the action and made sure the barrel was not contacting the stock and just about everything I could google I've tried,except reloading. I'm shooting the same grain bullets. My groups tightened up quite a bit but still have the flyer. My special ops buddy said it was the style of barrel. Once it warms up I guess the barrel whips more? It's a pencil style barrel I guess. My first 2 shots touch at 200 yards but that 3rd one is enough to make you scratch your head.
Have you tried tuning it with a Boss/brake?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 02, 2017, 06:55:43 PM
How did it shoot in the past, prior to putting the new scope on it?
It shot good when we first got it, then shot like crap. So I was at the range trying to figure it out and noticed the scope looked sideways a little and I noticed the windage screws that hold the back ring tight were loose! So that's why I bought all new base and rings and loctite Everything. Sent the old scope into leupold and they sent me a brand new one. I was stoked to get it shooting for my dad and now it's still giving me issues. I'm honestly wondering if the barrel was just to warm the 7mm gets hot super fast. But would a warm barrel throw shots 8-10 inches?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 02, 2017, 07:00:12 PM
My ruger 7mm did the same thing.(still does a little). I would shoot 2 shots decent and 1 flyer. I bedded the action and made sure the barrel was not contacting the stock and just about everything I could google I've tried,except reloading. I'm shooting the same grain bullets. My groups tightened up quite a bit but still have the flyer. My special ops buddy said it was the style of barrel. Once it warms up I guess the barrel whips more? It's a pencil style barrel I guess. My first 2 shots touch at 200 yards but that 3rd one is enough to make you scratch your head.
Man I was really scratching my head today like WTF. Definetly not anticipating the shot it hardly kicks compared to my 338. The gun has a great trigger though. I really wanted to get it all squared away for my dad because he's always using my guns to hunt with and wanted this one to be his
Post by: 270Shooter on February 02, 2017, 07:20:32 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 02, 2017, 07:40:46 PM
Is the barrel free floated? Sorry if I missed that part. My browning a bolt does similar things in that the first 2 shots from a cold bore are always touching and right on the money. The third shot always screws my group and will fly out about an inch and a half. Not as pronounced as what you experienced but I've tried different loads and just decided it's good enough.
No man it's not free floated. I'm sure that would help though. Tomorrow is about extreme consistency in every shot and see what happens. I'll post pictures
Post by: 270Shooter on February 02, 2017, 07:42:03 PM
if it shoots good when you let it cool down before every shot I'd say that's the issueIs the barrel free floated? Sorry if I missed that part. My browning a bolt does similar things in that the first 2 shots from a cold bore are always touching and right on the money. The third shot always screws my group and will fly out about an inch and a half. Not as pronounced as what you experienced but I've tried different loads and just decided it's good enough.
No man it's not free floated. I'm sure that would help though. Tomorrow is about extreme consistency in every shot and see what happens. I'll post pictures
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 02, 2017, 07:50:16 PM
if it shoots good when you let it cool down before every shot I'd say that's the issueIs the barrel free floated? Sorry if I missed that part. My browning a bolt does similar things in that the first 2 shots from a cold bore are always touching and right on the money. The third shot always screws my group and will fly out about an inch and a half. Not as pronounced as what you experienced but I've tried different loads and just decided it's good enough.
No man it's not free floated. I'm sure that would help though. Tomorrow is about extreme consistency in every shot and see what happens. I'll post pictures
Ya I've been rushed the last few times going to the range because I show up at 3 and they close at 3:50. I'm going to take my time tomorrow. How can you tell if a barrel is worn out?
Post by: ghosthunter on February 02, 2017, 08:24:18 PM
Since it was used when to bought it.
A nick in the crown can throw shots.
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 02, 2017, 08:28:13 PM
Take a magnifying glass and inspect the muzzle crown for nicks.
Since it was used when to bought it.
A nick in the crown can throw shots.
I would really like to send a bore camera down and see what's going on. I'm not sure what the technical term is
Post by: rudysts on February 03, 2017, 07:29:07 AM
1 would be your action screws make sure they are torqued properly. with a wood stock maybe 50 inch pounds if it has pillars 60-65 inch pounds.
2 Check you crown on the muzzle for burrs. you can do this easily with a Q tip inserted in to the muzzle when you pull it out you should be able to feel if it catches or if it leaves fiber on the crown. the best way would be for a smith to borescope it.
I have had this happen to me before after having a muzzle brake installed the so called smith screwed up the crown. so a friend who is also a member at your club re crowned it and it shot good after that.
Good luck to you.
Post by: dyhardhuntr on February 03, 2017, 07:33:52 AM
I haven't tried the brake at all. I've thought about it but I've also thought about selling it and buying a tikka :chuckle:My ruger 7mm did the same thing.(still does a little). I would shoot 2 shots decent and 1 flyer. I bedded the action and made sure the barrel was not contacting the stock and just about everything I could google I've tried,except reloading. I'm shooting the same grain bullets. My groups tightened up quite a bit but still have the flyer. My special ops buddy said it was the style of barrel. Once it warms up I guess the barrel whips more? It's a pencil style barrel I guess. My first 2 shots touch at 200 yards but that 3rd one is enough to make you scratch your head.
Have you tried tuning it with a Boss/brake?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 08:20:39 AM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 08:22:26 AM
Post by: Bill W on February 03, 2017, 08:28:30 AM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 08:33:42 AM
Houston, we have a problem!
Ya I'm not sure what to do now doesn't seem right
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 03, 2017, 08:38:53 AM
Houston, we have a problem!How isn't the bullet fitting into the muzzle a problem?
Putting the bullet into the muzzle really doesn't tell you anything except where the ogive is.
Post by: Bill W on February 03, 2017, 10:54:21 AM
Houston, we have a problem!How isn't the bullet fitting into the muzzle a problem?
Putting the bullet into the muzzle really doesn't tell you anything except where the ogive is.
What it tells me is the bullet is too small for the rifling at the muzzle and possibly in other areas also.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 03, 2017, 11:02:36 AM
Maybe that particular cartridge has the ogive only slightly in front of the case mouth? That test literally tells you nothing. :twocents:Houston, we have a problem!How isn't the bullet fitting into the muzzle a problem?
Putting the bullet into the muzzle really doesn't tell you anything except where the ogive is.
What it tells me is the bullet is too small for the rifling at the muzzle and possibly in other areas also.
I'd like to see a 7mm comparator on the same cartridge.
Post by: Bill W on February 03, 2017, 11:09:06 AM
My :twocents:
Post by: jasnt on February 03, 2017, 12:55:24 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 01:00:10 PM
I just check all of my rifles none of them can I put a bullet into the muzzle. Should be a very tight fit. You sure that's a 7mm barel? If so I'd say there is a problem
I checked my other rifle I brought to the range too and the bullet didn't fit. Guys at the range said the ogive of that bullet was like halfway down the bullet whAtever that means. It shot OK. Probably a 6 inch group lol.... With the occasional flyer 10 inches right.
Post by: jasnt on February 03, 2017, 01:04:24 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 01:07:24 PM
Sounds like this rifle has never shot well. Probably cheaper to rebarrel it than replace the rifle. Buying used rifles always makes me nervous. No one ever sells the good shooting rifle
The guys at the range said they would suggest rebarreling. I let one of the range officers shoot it and he shot probably 3 shots in a 8 inch spread at 100 yards. Now for rebarreling. Who would you guys recommend and would it be worth it? It feels like it has a nice trigger and the Mauser claw style bolt.
Post by: jasnt on February 03, 2017, 01:08:26 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 01:09:11 PM
What brand and model is it?
It's an interarms Mark x I believe
Post by: jasnt on February 03, 2017, 01:18:45 PM
Post by: jasnt on February 03, 2017, 01:20:26 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 01:25:42 PM
I would have it checked out first. Could be that you could have it cut shorter and be fine. Hard saying with out knowing what's going on in that barrel
Who would you suggest? I am interested in just finding out what's going on... Should shoot better then it does
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 03, 2017, 01:54:26 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 01:56:54 PM
Don't dump it, those triggers are really easy and crisp to adjust and that action is money too. I second taking it to a competent gunsmith for the inspect
Ya man I love the gun it's got a great trigger and solid action. I just think it might need a new barrel. I can notice a little pitting on the inside of it as well. You can still see rifling though
Post by: jasnt on February 03, 2017, 03:42:56 PM
https://g.co/kgs/F0hcL8
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 03, 2017, 03:53:15 PM
:yeah:Maybe that particular cartridge has the ogive only slightly in front of the case mouth? That test literally tells you nothing. :twocents:Houston, we have a problem!How isn't the bullet fitting into the muzzle a problem?
Putting the bullet into the muzzle really doesn't tell you anything except where the ogive is.
What it tells me is the bullet is too small for the rifling at the muzzle and possibly in other areas also.
I'd like to see a 7mm comparator on the same cartridge.
Post by: Bill W on February 03, 2017, 04:26:44 PM
Remember, this is a way out in left field possibility and I'm not trying to insult your intelligence.
Post by: bobcat on February 03, 2017, 04:28:05 PM
http://www.sawtoothrifles.com/index.html
Post by: fishngamereaper on February 03, 2017, 05:15:32 PM
Not sure whats up with your pic of the round fitting in the barrel though. I cant imagine the barrel wearing that much. You either don't have a 7 mag barrel or don't have 7mag rounds..I just checked my 7mag and it stops about an 1/8 before the casing... :yike:
Post by: mossback91 on February 03, 2017, 05:38:09 PM
There's a gunsmith in Lacey who might be able to install a new barrel. He's definitely capable, but apparently his preference is to do only complete rifle builds. It's just a matter of if he has time to do it. So if you can't find anyone else at least try contacting this guy and ask if he's got time for a barrel swap.
http://www.sawtoothrifles.com/index.html
Great guy! He's building me a 280ackley right now :tup:
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 05:45:05 PM
My 7 mag was throwing rounds a couple years ago. I think I had a bur in the rifling but never scoped it to check. I cleaned the living heck out of, literally ran a bore brush down it like a 100 times. But I also switched ammo from Winchester to Barnes. She shoots tight now. Same type of set up, but an old Ruger M77.
Not sure whats up with your pic of the round fitting in the barrel though. I cant imagine the barrel wearing that much. You either don't have a 7 mag barrel or don't have 7mag rounds..I just checked my 7mag and it stops about an 1/8 before the casing... :yike:
The guys at the range thought that it might be a different barrel because you could actually wiggle the bullet around inside the barrel. They are definetly 7mm bullets straight from factory. Might be worth changing ammo but think I'll get it checked out first before spending more money
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 03, 2017, 06:05:20 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 03, 2017, 06:12:11 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 03, 2017, 06:16:43 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 06:21:36 PM
That's the cannelure ring right there. Looks to me like it is clearly not touching the casing. Am I blind :dunno: :chuckle: I very well could need glasses. That's a real issue in my life right now :chuckle:
You would think more than just a tiny bit of the jacket would engage in the barrel. My mini 30 bullet would only go halfway down the bullet before touching
Post by: Alchase on February 03, 2017, 06:25:08 PM
Is the rifling still good?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 03, 2017, 06:28:21 PM
It all depends on seating depth and where the ogive is. If the bullet is seated deep in the casing than the ogive will be much closer to the case mouth.That's the cannelure ring right there. Looks to me like it is clearly not touching the casing. Am I blind :dunno: :chuckle: I very well could need glasses. That's a real issue in my life right now :chuckle:
You would think more than just a tiny bit of the jacket would engage in the barrel. My mini 30 bullet would only go halfway down the bullet before touching
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 03, 2017, 06:30:07 PM
How old is that rifle, looks like some pitting on the outside of the barrel?
Is the rifling still good?
Idk I think it's from the 70s. It has a little pitting on the outside but not to bad it's been hunted with. You can see the rifling if you take the bolt out and look up the chamber. The end of the barrel you can see light rifling
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 03, 2017, 06:43:50 PM
it depends on bullet shape. There is lots of bearing surface down into the case neck or below possibly. Anybody can seat a bullet so that it won't leave much bullet between the case and barrel on your "test"That's the cannelure ring right there. Looks to me like it is clearly not touching the casing. Am I blind :dunno: :chuckle: I very well could need glasses. That's a real issue in my life right now :chuckle:
You would think more than just a tiny bit of the jacket would engage in the barrel. My mini 30 bullet would only go halfway down the bullet before touching
Post by: bobcat on February 03, 2017, 06:47:30 PM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on February 03, 2017, 06:59:32 PM
Then you have a better idea of what size/caliber you have.
Post by: Bill W on February 03, 2017, 09:06:46 PM
Post by: nwbow87 on February 04, 2017, 06:44:52 AM
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Post by: rudysts on February 04, 2017, 10:39:22 AM
Try finding a gunsmith that can slug the barrel then measure it.:tup: You should not be able to push a 7mm .284 bullet through the muzzle without resistance. the bore diameter of a 7mm is .277 on average some .276. so that would explain your accuracy issues.
Then you have a better idea of what size/caliber you have.
Post by: bobcat on February 04, 2017, 10:44:49 AM
Try finding a gunsmith that can slug the barrel then measure it.:tup: You should not be able to push a 7mm .284 bullet through the muzzle without resistance. the bore diameter of a 7mm is .277 on average some .276. so that would explain your accuracy issues.
Then you have a better idea of what size/caliber you have.
But he didn't push a bullet through the muzzle. He only inserted the tip of the bullet.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 04, 2017, 11:00:30 AM
Would need a better picture of how the crowning was done before thinking a bore mismatch from that bullet test, though.
Post by: Bill W on February 04, 2017, 12:07:49 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 04, 2017, 12:25:02 PM
When inserting the bullet into the muzzle, can it be rotated over the lands?
Post by: yorketransport on February 04, 2017, 01:20:39 PM
If he was able to push a 7mm bullet in as far as he did, either the bullet is a 2 diameter bullet OR the front end of the barrel has the rifling boogered up by improper cleaning. I think 2 diameter bullets are a thing of the past. Mike the bullet just ahead of the cannelure and report the findings.
If the interior of the barrel looks anything like the exterior, that barrel has been used and abused. I'm not very familiar with the specific bullet in that ammo, but I don't see anything obviously wrong with how deep it rests in the muzzle. It's probably resting right on the ogive where it should be.
Do you have any pictures of the target? Do you know the rifling twist rate of the barrel? Have you tried a lighter weight bullet?
It's possible your barrel has a twist that just won't work well with a 175gr bullet. Combine a 175gr bullet in a 1-11" twist barrel with a worn muzzle and some pitting in the bore and you've got a guaranteed mediocre shooter. The faster 1-9.5" twist wasn't always the common twist found in factory guns.Savage used a 1-11.5" twist for years on their 7mm barrels.
Post by: RadSav on February 04, 2017, 02:26:36 PM
My suggestion would be to have a good smith check the barrel. No sense in trying to solve a flyer problem if the barrel will never produce groups. If the barrel is ok then start the process to eliminate binding in the action and/or box.
If it's the lightweight barrel model, don't be afraid to start off with a neutral full length bed. Two of my top three shooters were mediocre shooting lightweights until I full length bed the barrel. The Kimber went from a 3" gun to a 1/2 inch gun after doing nothing more than full bed and eliminating a box bind.
On a separate note: I shoot a lot of Core-Lokts and a lot of 7mm. I have yet to own a 7mm that likes the Remington 175 grain Core-Lokt. Never experienced flyer problems with it though.
Post by: jasnt on February 05, 2017, 01:02:21 AM