Post by: Euro mount on February 08, 2017, 02:51:51 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on February 08, 2017, 02:53:18 PM
Post by: woodswalker on February 08, 2017, 02:56:15 PM
I have a knight bighorn and I can use 209, musket or regular caps. Just have to change a few parts that came with gun.
Exactly so..I have one also.
Post by: Stein on February 08, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Euro mount on February 08, 2017, 03:07:42 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on February 08, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
lol I know what you mean about wet conditions all to well
Damp weather no biggie... just wrap the breech in plastic wrap
This is a side hammer but the idea remains the same and much easier with an inline breech...
(https://s26.postimg.org/5oms54jsp/capwrap.jpg)
Post by: Euro mount on February 09, 2017, 07:31:07 AM
Post by: Shadrach71 on February 14, 2017, 09:22:29 PM
Post by: Stein on March 22, 2017, 02:58:20 PM
lol I know what you mean about wet conditions all to well
Damp weather no biggie... just wrap the breech in plastic wrap
This is a side hammer but the idea remains the same and much easier with an inline breech...
(https://s26.postimg.org/5oms54jsp/capwrap.jpg)
The game warden at my son's hunter's ed class tickets that as it isn't exposed to the weather. You can shelter it under your arm, but you can't tape over it or add anything to the gun that keeps it from being exposed to the weather.
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 22, 2017, 03:29:54 PM
lol I know what you mean about wet conditions all to well
Damp weather no biggie... just wrap the breech in plastic wrap
This is a side hammer but the idea remains the same and much easier with an inline breech...
(https://s26.postimg.org/5oms54jsp/capwrap.jpg)
The game warden at my son's hunter's ed class tickets that as it isn't exposed to the weather. You can shelter it under your arm, but you can't tape over it or add anything to the gun that keeps it from being exposed to the weather.
I've always wondered where this line was...
Its not super clear.
I know a lot of people that load up with petroleum jelly, nail polish, duct tape or whatever else to keep the water out. Are these legal or illegal?
Is something like this illegal?
http://possibleshop.com/images-flint-supp/lc900.jpg
Post by: Sabotloader on March 22, 2017, 03:37:08 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on March 24, 2017, 10:46:30 PM
I don't think this would be legal,could end up being a warden judgement call..it is not open to the elements if its wrapped,covered may be diff.to be NW legal it only needs little holes but the holes allow air and moisture (elements) inlol I know what you mean about wet conditions all to well
Damp weather no biggie... just wrap the breech in plastic wrap
This is a side hammer but the idea remains the same and much easier with an inline breech...
(https://s26.postimg.org/5oms54jsp/capwrap.jpg)
The game warden at my son's hunter's ed class tickets that as it isn't exposed to the weather. You can shelter it under your arm, but you can't tape over it or add anything to the gun that keeps it from being exposed to the weather.
I've always wondered where this line was...
Its not super clear.
I know a lot of people that load up with petroleum jelly, nail polish, duct tape or whatever else to keep the water out. Are these legal or illegal?
Is something like this illegal?
http://possibleshop.com/images-flint-supp/lc900.jpg
Post by: Sabotloader on March 25, 2017, 08:13:03 AM
a. Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock, flintlock, or percussion using original style percussion caps that fit on the nipple and are exposed to the weather. "Exposed to the weather" means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper.
When I presented the question to the WDFW Law Enforcement in an email. I was told that the last sentence explained their boundaries. The rifle may not have a part built into the rifle that covers or does not allow the visibility of the percussion cap.
There are several devices fashioned by man to keep the breech dry. These devices have been used long before us modern day hunters. These devices are not an integral part of the rifle. An integral part would be something that is necessary for the rifle to function.
Cap covers are available as an add on, waxing a cap on can be done, putting a piece of leather around the breech is done and many other ingenious ways of water proofing the cap but none of these are an integral part of the rifle.
But... as has been stated could end up being a warden judgement call...
It would pay to check with the LEO in your area.
Also one way to beat the whole thing is to use #11 caps and a nipple that the cap fits on correctly. If you have such a nipple the convolutions of the cap will be stretched flat when the cap goes on the nipple making it impervious to water, the PROBLEM - the only way to get the cap off is to shoot it off or peal it off with a knife blade.
I really wish I could find the email form each of the Pacific North West LEO's
Post by: Oh Mah on March 25, 2017, 10:56:38 AM
Why was reply different from each one?
Post by: Sabotloader on March 25, 2017, 02:00:42 PM
"I REALLY WISH I COULD FIND THE EMAIL FROM EACH OF THE PACIFIC NORTH WEST LEO'S"
Why was reply different from each one?
No it was basically the same but each States rule is writing differently. Like Idaho's says the cap and nipple must be exposed and visible when in the firing position... If it in a safety position it could be covered - I guess...
Post by: Oh Mah on March 25, 2017, 04:42:22 PM
Post by: JDHasty on March 25, 2017, 08:57:31 PM
I copied the photo and asked for a definitive answer, so unless and until WDFW responds one way or the other the default position is that it is GTG.
Post by: JDHasty on March 27, 2017, 09:12:25 AM
Mr. Hasty-
I spoke with multiple officers and we came to the consensus that yes that would be legal because the tape isn’t considered an integral part of the weapon proper. Therefore it falls out of the verbiage described in the hunting pamphlet.
Good luck hunting!
Thank you,
Lexie
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 27, 2017, 09:15:12 AM
Here is the response from WDFW. I will archive the email in case any member ever needs it.:tup:
Mr. Hasty-
I spoke with multiple officers and we came to the consensus that yes that would be legal because the tape isn’t considered an integral part of the weapon proper. Therefore it falls out of the verbiage described in the hunting pamphlet.
Good luck hunting!
Thank you,
Lexie
Post by: Sabotloader on March 27, 2017, 09:55:34 AM
Here is the response from WDFW. I will archive the email in case any member ever needs it.
Mr. Hasty-
I spoke with multiple officers and we came to the consensus that yes that would be legal because the tape isn’t considered an integral part of the weapon proper. Therefore it falls out of the verbiage described in the hunting pamphlet.
Good luck hunting!
Thank you,
Lexie
Really glad to see things have not changed...
Post by: cm2cb4 on March 27, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
Post by: JDHasty on March 27, 2017, 10:05:32 AM
I have a bighorn and a Disc Extreme in western of course. I've often wondered about using tape to cover the exposed area as it isn't integral. I still haven't tried it b/c it kinda falls into a gray area and open to interpretation (spirit vs letter of law). The one deciding that is the game warden, and I wouldn't want to have my stuff confiscated for the season and have to go through the legal battles when I can just use my gloved hand to cover the hole as part of my field carry of the weapon. But if you try it in the field and FWO says it's good to go, revisit this thread to let us know.
You can see that I asked for a definitive answer, so this is WDFW's official position on this subject.
Hi,
Can you have someone provide me with a definitive answer to this question?
Please see the attached photo. This has recently come up as a topic of discussion on Hunting-Washington.com and the photo was posted with this caption below it: The game warden at my son's hunter's ed class tickets that as it isn't exposed to the weather. You can shelter it under your arm, but you can't tape over it or add anything to the gun that keeps it from being exposed to the weather.
I have heard this same question posed at the Hunter Education classes that I participate by helping out in at Tacoma Rifle & Revolver Club and there were opposing opinions on whether this would, or would not, be legal during Muzzle Loader Seasons.
It would be nice to be able to have something to base an opinion on.
Thank you
Post by: Sabotloader on March 27, 2017, 10:07:18 AM
I have a bighorn and a Disc Extreme in western of course. I've often wondered about using tape to cover the exposed area as it isn't integral. I still haven't tried it b/c it kinda falls into a gray area and open to interpretation (spirit vs letter of law). The one deciding that is the game warden, and I wouldn't want to have my stuff confiscated for the season and have to go through the legal battles when I can just use my gloved hand to cover the hole as part of my field carry of the weapon. But if you try it in the field and FWO says it's good to go, revisit this thread to let us know.
If it concerns you I would print a copy of the email - who it went to and what the response was. Seal it in plastic and pack it into your hunting essentials.
But, I can tell you this is the same basic answer I received 5 years ago from the Washington LEO's.
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 27, 2017, 10:14:54 AM
Are the rules the same in Idaho? (sabotloader)?
Post by: JDHasty on March 27, 2017, 10:27:03 AM
Yeah, going to need a copy of this to keep my duct tape game strong.
Are the rules the same in Idaho? (sabotloader)?
Here it is:
Post by: Sabotloader on March 27, 2017, 10:36:02 AM
Yeah, going to need a copy of this to keep my duct tape game strong.
Are the rules the same in Idaho? (sabotloader)?
Yes and Oregon also - anyway they were 5 years ago.
Idaho Rule
Equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of
the cap is exposed or visible when the weapon is cocked
and ready to fire.
You no what I can not find an Oregon rule specific to cap exposure
Oregon Rule
It is illegal to hunt with centerfire primers as an ignition source during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.
Post by: Bob33 on March 27, 2017, 10:48:02 AM
Does this help:Yeah, going to need a copy of this to keep my duct tape game strong.
Are the rules the same in Idaho? (sabotloader)?
Yes and Oregon also - anyway they were 5 years ago.
Idaho Rule
Equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of
the cap is exposed or visible when the weapon is cocked
and ready to fire.
You no what I can not find an Oregon rule specific to cap exposure
Oregon Rule
It is illegal to hunt with centerfire primers as an ignition source during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/rules/oars_600/oar_635/635_045.html
(46) “Muzzleloader” is any single-barreled (shotguns may be double barreled) long gun meant to be fired from the shoulder and loaded from the muzzle with an open ignition system and open or peep sights.
(50) “Open Ignition” is an ignition system where the percussion cap, or frizzen, or flint is visible and exposed to the weather at all times and is not capable of being closed or covered by any permanent piece of the weapon.
Post by: Sabotloader on March 27, 2017, 10:54:00 AM
Does this help:Yeah, going to need a copy of this to keep my duct tape game strong.
Are the rules the same in Idaho? (sabotloader)?
Yes and Oregon also - anyway they were 5 years ago.
Idaho Rule
Equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of
the cap is exposed or visible when the weapon is cocked
and ready to fire.
You no what I can not find an Oregon rule specific to cap exposure
Oregon Rule
It is illegal to hunt with centerfire primers as an ignition source during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/rules/oars_600/oar_635/635_045.html
(46) “Muzzleloader” is any single-barreled (shotguns may be double barreled) long gun meant to be fired from the shoulder and loaded from the muzzle with an open ignition system and open or peep sights.
(50) “Open Ignition” is an ignition system where the percussion cap, or frizzen, or flint is visible and exposed to the weather at all times and is not capable of being closed or covered by any permanent piece of the weapon.
GREAT - you found it - was pretty sure it existed but could not come up with it quickly... even than as I found out several years ago man taking precautions with temporary devices still is OK... As then and now the regulation pretty much spells it out...
Thanks Bob!
Post by: Sabotloader on March 27, 2017, 10:55:01 AM
Does this help:Yeah, going to need a copy of this to keep my duct tape game strong.
Are the rules the same in Idaho? (sabotloader)?
Yes and Oregon also - anyway they were 5 years ago.
Idaho Rule
Equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of
the cap is exposed or visible when the weapon is cocked
and ready to fire.
You no what I can not find an Oregon rule specific to cap exposure
Oregon Rule
It is illegal to hunt with centerfire primers as an ignition source during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/rules/oars_600/oar_635/635_045.html
(46) “Muzzleloader” is any single-barreled (shotguns may be double barreled) long gun meant to be fired from the shoulder and loaded from the muzzle with an open ignition system and open or peep sights.
(50) “Open Ignition” is an ignition system where the percussion cap, or frizzen, or flint is visible and exposed to the weather at all times and is not capable of being closed or covered by any permanent piece of the weapon.
GREAT - you found it - was pretty sure it existed but could not come up with it quickly... even now as I found out several years ago man taking precautions with temporary devices still is OK... As then and now the regulation pretty much spells it out...
Thanks Bob!
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 27, 2017, 11:40:28 AM
My go-to on the barrel is duct tape.
It appears to me that I could use Duct Tape on the breech in Idaho, but when I cocked it to fire, I'd have to take that off. Or, I could use nail polish or vaseline or some other type of grease to coat my nipple. Is that how you'd read Idaho?
Post by: Sabotloader on March 27, 2017, 12:02:37 PM
So it looks like WA and OR are the same.
My go-to on the barrel is duct tape.
It appears to me that I could use Duct Tape on the breech in Idaho, but when I cocked it to fire, I'd have to take that off. Or, I could use nail polish or vaseline or some other type of grease to coat my nipple. Is that how you'd read Idaho?
I presented it as I have shown to the Idaho LEO... When the rifle as it is built is ready to fire ANY portion of the cap must be exposed or visible. In all of my Western legal ML's that is true. As a hunter if I choose to protect the breech - that is my choice as long as rifle was built with the exposure or visibility.
So in this case with the MK 85 or even a DISC I am meeting the visible portion of the requirement. Even if I used a piece of tape or a leather cover the rifle is still built to meet the Idaho specification.
(https://s26.postimg.org/qk5uor5fd/Wrap_the_Breech.jpg)
Post by: HoofsandWings on April 26, 2017, 08:05:51 PM