Post by: baldopepper on March 04, 2017, 11:34:24 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 06, 2017, 06:50:03 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/02/interior-sec-zinke-repeals-federal-ban-on-hunting-with-lead-bullets/
Post by: bigtex on March 07, 2017, 12:23:07 PM
Realistically, a lot of refuges already had/have lead ban for all types of hunting, not just waterfowl. The following NWRs in WA allow big game hunting (other than archery): Columbia, Conboy Lake, Hanford Reach NM/Saddle Mountains, Julia Butler Hansen, Little Pend Oreille, McNary, Umatilla, and Willapa. On all of those refuges with the exception of JBH, Little Pend Oreille, and Willapa it is illegal to use lead for any type of hunting (including big game).
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 07, 2017, 12:26:43 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 07, 2017, 12:32:09 PM
Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.
Post by: olyguy79 on March 07, 2017, 12:35:59 PM
:yeah: it was a lot of fake news/scare tactics. Nothing changed in the regs anywhere. It basically just said wildlife refuges should strive towards being lead free for hunting, which as Bigtex pointed out is already the case on many refuges.Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.
We got a lot of calls in the Senator's office about it and that's the story we told people.
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Post by: Jim/WA on March 07, 2017, 01:33:12 PM
“There are no proposals by ODFW or the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission to ban or restrict the use of lead ammunition for hunting in Oregon. However, ODFW anticipates that events outside the state, like the restoration of condors in northern California, litigation, legislation or a ballot initiative could affect the use of ammunition, hunting and wildlife management in Oregon.”
The key words being "ballot initiative". Here in Vancouver, aka "Portland metro", environmental lead has been much in the news lately -- from a 2-part KOPB story which included a segment on Swans in Wa to local news about lead poisoning in Bald Eagles along the Columbia. I don't mind shooting copper from my center fires but there is no solution for guys like me who hunt with patched round balls out of a flintlock rifle.
Post by: csaaphill on March 11, 2017, 10:14:55 PM
Post by: csaaphill on March 11, 2017, 10:34:02 PM
really looks like it to me:Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.
Post by: bigtex on March 12, 2017, 08:03:09 AM
The regs were never changed. It basically said the USFWS should pursue moving towards lead free in the future, but it didn't enact any reg change immediately.really looks like it to me:Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.
Post by: csaaphill on March 12, 2017, 10:11:57 PM
well I'm sure he will get to that then.The regs were never changed. It basically said the USFWS should pursue moving towards lead free in the future, but it didn't enact any reg change immediately.really looks like it to me:Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.
Post by: olyguy79 on March 12, 2017, 10:55:36 PM
Get to what? It was a policy statement and never a reg change. The former USFWS Director directed the policy of National Wildlife Refuges to be lead free in the future. Zinke removed that policy statement. We got a lot of calls from constituents freaking out over this. It was really nothing more than a change in policy that lasted about a month.well I'm sure he will get to that then.The regs were never changed. It basically said the USFWS should pursue moving towards lead free in the future, but it didn't enact any reg change immediately.really looks like it to me:Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: csaaphill on March 13, 2017, 03:00:18 AM
Order no. 3346
Subject: Revocation of the United States fish and Wildlife service Directors Order NO. 219
(use of Nontoxic ammunition and Fishing tackle.)
Sec. 1 Purpose. this order Revokes Directors order 219 (Use of Non toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
Sec 2. Background On Jan 19, 2017 the director of he US fish and wildlife service (FWS) signed Directors order 219 (use of Non Toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
the order stated that it was effective immediately until incorporated into the FWS manual, or until amended, superseded, or revoked.
Sec. 3 Authority his order is issued under the authority provided under section 2 of reorganization plan No.3 of 1950 (64 stat. 1262), as amended and other applicable authorities.
the secretary retains all authority delegated to the FWS director, including those listed in the Directors order. See 200 DM 1.9.
Sec 4 Determination After reviewing the order and the process by which it promulgated, I have determined that the order is not mandated(219) meaning!) by any existing statuary or regulatory requirement and was issued without significant communication, consultation, or coordination with effected stakeholders. Giving these facts, I conclude that the order shodl be withdrawn.
Accordingly, the FWS directors order no. 219 (Use of Nontoxic ammunition, and fishing tackle) is hereby revoked.
Sec 5 Implementation The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219.
Sec 6 This order is effective immediately.
Secretary of Interior his signature, and dated on the bottom as March 2nd 2017.
So sounds and looks like he revocked the old interiors Order to ban lead ammo and fishing tackle to me, even if that order was the day before Trump took office and only lasted until this guy took office he revoked that ban! and it does say the Director is to take full steps to see that this ban is undone. IE: The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219
Post by: csaaphill on March 13, 2017, 03:05:05 AM
Get to what? It was a policy statement and never a reg change. The former USFWS Director directed the policy of National Wildlife Refuges to be lead free in the future. Zinke removed that policy statement. We got a lot of calls from constituents freaking out over this. It was really nothing more than a change in policy that lasted about a month.well I'm sure he will get to that then.The regs were never changed. It basically said the USFWS should pursue moving towards lead free in the future, but it didn't enact any reg change immediately.Who? Libs? I support this revocation, and so do a lot of people if sportsmen are against this then their not real because anyone knows you ban lead to hunt and fish with your screwed.Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.
Ammunition will sky rocket and isn't all that much safer giving the ability to start fires as I've read. lead tackle as in sinkers and weights are cost effective and do the best, anything else would be so danged expensive it wont be worth it.
really looks like it to me:
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bigtex on March 13, 2017, 07:30:30 AM
Word for word then:And your point? Nobody is arguing that Zinke didn't revoke/rescind the order. You have two people (myself and Olyguy) who are well versed and well connected in the legal/law world who are saying no new regulation took effect.
Order no. 3346
Subject: Revocation of the United States fish and Wildlife service Directors Order NO. 219
(use of Nontoxic ammunition and Fishing tackle.)
Sec. 1 Purpose. this order Revokes Directors order 219 (Use of Non toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
Sec 2. Background On Jan 19, 2017 the director of he US fish and wildlife service (FWS) signed Directors order 219 (use of Non Toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
the order stated that it was effective immediately until incorporated into the FWS manual, or until amended, superseded, or revoked.
Sec. 3 Authority his order is issued under the authority provided under section 2 of reorganization plan No.3 of 1950 (64 stat. 1262), as amended and other applicable authorities.
the secretary retains all authority delegated to the FWS director, including those listed in the Directors order. See 200 DM 1.9.
Sec 4 Determination After reviewing the order and the process by which it promulgated, I have determined that the order is not mandated(219) meaning!) by any existing statuary or regulatory requirement and was issued without significant communication, consultation, or coordination with effected stakeholders. Giving these facts, I conclude that the order shodl be withdrawn.
Accordingly, the FWS directors order no. 219 (Use of Nontoxic ammunition, and fishing tackle) is hereby revoked.
Sec 5 Implementation The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219.
Sec 6 This order is effective immediately.
Secretary of Interior his signature, and dated on the bottom as March 2nd 2017.
So sounds and looks like he revocked the old interiors Order to ban lead ammo and fishing tackle to me, even if that order was the day before Trump took office and only lasted until this guy took office he revoked that ban! and it does say the Director is to take full steps to see that this ban is undone. IE: The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219
Post by: olyguy79 on March 13, 2017, 07:32:32 AM
:yeah: apparently Phil doesn't get the point. But I guess an LEO and a legislative assistant have no idea about the legal system in his view and he's an expert. I'm starting to see why a lot of people roll their eyes at Phil...Word for word then:And your point? Nobody is arguing that Zinke didn't revoke/rescind the order. You have two people (myself and Olyguy) who are well versed and well connected in the legal/law world who are saying no new regulation took effect.
Order no. 3346
Subject: Revocation of the United States fish and Wildlife service Directors Order NO. 219
(use of Nontoxic ammunition and Fishing tackle.)
Sec. 1 Purpose. this order Revokes Directors order 219 (Use of Non toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
Sec 2. Background On Jan 19, 2017 the director of he US fish and wildlife service (FWS) signed Directors order 219 (use of Non Toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
the order stated that it was effective immediately until incorporated into the FWS manual, or until amended, superseded, or revoked.
Sec. 3 Authority his order is issued under the authority provided under section 2 of reorganization plan No.3 of 1950 (64 stat. 1262), as amended and other applicable authorities.
the secretary retains all authority delegated to the FWS director, including those listed in the Directors order. See 200 DM 1.9.
Sec 4 Determination After reviewing the order and the process by which it promulgated, I have determined that the order is not mandated(219) meaning!) by any existing statuary or regulatory requirement and was issued without significant communication, consultation, or coordination with effected stakeholders. Giving these facts, I conclude that the order shodl be withdrawn.
Accordingly, the FWS directors order no. 219 (Use of Nontoxic ammunition, and fishing tackle) is hereby revoked.
Sec 5 Implementation The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219.
Sec 6 This order is effective immediately.
Secretary of Interior his signature, and dated on the bottom as March 2nd 2017.
So sounds and looks like he revocked the old interiors Order to ban lead ammo and fishing tackle to me, even if that order was the day before Trump took office and only lasted until this guy took office he revoked that ban! and it does say the Director is to take full steps to see that this ban is undone. IE: The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: csaaphill on March 13, 2017, 09:54:05 PM
Hmmm ok Guess I Misunderstood what was being said. Self-defense mechanism kicks in when I feel I'm being trolled, or being called a liar. :sry:Word for word then:And your point? Nobody is arguing that Zinke didn't revoke/rescind the order. You have two people (myself and Olyguy) who are well versed and well connected in the legal/law world who are saying no new regulation took effect.
Order no. 3346
Subject: Revocation of the United States fish and Wildlife service Directors Order NO. 219
(use of Nontoxic ammunition and Fishing tackle.)
Sec. 1 Purpose. this order Revokes Directors order 219 (Use of Non toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
Sec 2. Background On Jan 19, 2017 the director of he US fish and wildlife service (FWS) signed Directors order 219 (use of Non Toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
the order stated that it was effective immediately until incorporated into the FWS manual, or until amended, superseded, or revoked.
Sec. 3 Authority his order is issued under the authority provided under section 2 of reorganization plan No.3 of 1950 (64 stat. 1262), as amended and other applicable authorities.
the secretary retains all authority delegated to the FWS director, including those listed in the Directors order. See 200 DM 1.9.
Sec 4 Determination After reviewing the order and the process by which it promulgated, I have determined that the order is not mandated(219) meaning!) by any existing statuary or regulatory requirement and was issued without significant communication, consultation, or coordination with effected stakeholders. Giving these facts, I conclude that the order shodl be withdrawn.
Accordingly, the FWS directors order no. 219 (Use of Nontoxic ammunition, and fishing tackle) is hereby revoked.
Sec 5 Implementation The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219.
Sec 6 This order is effective immediately.
Secretary of Interior his signature, and dated on the bottom as March 2nd 2017.
So sounds and looks like he revocked the old interiors Order to ban lead ammo and fishing tackle to me, even if that order was the day before Trump took office and only lasted until this guy took office he revoked that ban! and it does say the Director is to take full steps to see that this ban is undone. IE: The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219
Post by: lokidog on March 13, 2017, 10:54:11 PM