Post by: BrandonWatts on March 28, 2017, 12:01:40 PM
I was looking at something in the 45 hp range with a bucket and backhoe attachment.
The price on the tractors seem pretty reasonable but don't want to spend 25 grand on something I'm going to have problems with all the time.
So any experience would be great.
Post by: HntnFsh on March 28, 2017, 07:09:13 PM
Post by: BrandonWatts on March 28, 2017, 07:33:59 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 28, 2017, 07:37:34 PM
Post by: Whitpirate on March 28, 2017, 07:48:43 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 28, 2017, 08:12:25 PM
I bought a "grey market" tractor a few years ago. It was awesome. Loved everything about it. But.... When something breaks, you are on your own. No dealer with the slightest affliation of a parts shop, service or repair will work on it. Research, grey market tractors. Lots of info out there.
Kioti's aren't grey market.
The most well known and fought over grey market tractors are the Yanmars out of Vietnam and Japan. They lack so many safety features common in the US, as well as some weird PTO issues, the Yanmar sued in order to prevent the importation of the tractors and of parts. They are again presently being imported, but not badged Yanmar. The only danger with Kioti is if your local dealer changes affiliation, something Towne and Country has done a couple of times with Yanmar and Cub.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 28, 2017, 11:08:19 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 28, 2017, 11:09:24 PM
Town and Country Tractor in Monroe sells and services Kioti
They turn wrenches?
Post by: BrandonWatts on March 29, 2017, 06:20:13 AM
Post by: headshot5 on March 29, 2017, 07:28:09 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 29, 2017, 07:29:37 AM
I have harbor saw here in town that is a dealer as well as ag bag forage solutions in Astoria. I do that think parts are going to be an issue to get if they are needed. All the maintenance will be done by me.
I found a junkyard in Georgia which had all off brand and grey market tractors(any not supported by a dealer network). They were proud of their salvage parts.
Post by: Skillet on March 29, 2017, 07:35:35 AM
Ive owned two grey market tractors. It can be confusing, since a grey market tractor is a tractor that was never intended to be sold into the US and imported legally into the states by someone other than a factory authorized dealer. As Knocker says, dealers are prohibited by the manufacturers from helping you out.
I've owned one Yanmar 2020D, and one Kubota B6000. Both were great machines for the price, but as knocker says you are on your own for parts and service. The Yanmar had good parts availability through these guys (also a great place to learn about grey market machine issues): www.hoyetractor.com (http://www.hoyetractor.com)
A version of the Kubota B6000 was also sold in the US at one point, but parts for both the US version and the grey market are nearly non-existent. And many parts are not interchangeable. The grey market B6000 has a counter-rotating PTO, exclusive to that import B6000 model. So if the tiller that came with it broke, I was out of luck. Those are virtually impossible to find parts for now, worldwide.
A new Kioti sold by a dealer isn't a grey market machine.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 29, 2017, 07:51:27 AM
Post by: cem3434 on March 29, 2017, 07:55:31 AM
So, you can take a kioti to Sumner Tractor when it breaks down?
Maybe, but they are a John Deere dealer and probably don't service or fix other manufacturers equipment.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 29, 2017, 08:15:42 AM
Town and Country Tractor in Monroe sells and services Kioti
They turn wrenches?
Yes
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 29, 2017, 08:17:08 AM
Anyone have any experience with these tractors? I was looking at getting one. I need to do a lot of work on my property to get it prepped for a built sight.Also, watch for 0% financing on those tractors. They will do that almost every year.
I was looking at something in the 45 hp range with a bucket and backhoe attachment.
The price on the tractors seem pretty reasonable but don't want to spend 25 grand on something I'm going to have problems with all the time.
So any experience would be great.
Post by: littlemac on March 29, 2017, 08:17:55 AM
Post by: BrandonWatts on March 29, 2017, 09:23:57 AM
I plan on keeping it for a long time as I think it will be plenty useful around my property. When the warranty is up I will fix it myself. Been a diesel mechanic for 15 years so not worried about repairs. I did notice kioti has a 4 year drive train and a 2 year bumper to bumper warranty. I know with most new equipment you will see problems with them within the first year or two. So warranty is going to cover it.
Kioti does run specials like right now you can get up to a 6 year warranty. That's pretty darn good.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 29, 2017, 11:07:01 AM
The Yanmar had good parts availability through these guys (also a great place to learn about grey market machine issues): www.hoyetractor.com (http://www.hoyetractor.com)
Hoye is a great place for Yanmar and older YanDeere's. Their web site also has a lot if info and videos to help.
Fredericks in Alabama is also highly touted https://www.fredricksoutdoor.com, and they sell highly refurbish Yan's and YanDeere's.
Sorry that this is tangental to the topic.
I've heard a lot of good things about Kioti, Mahindra and TYM tractors
Post by: Whitpirate on March 29, 2017, 11:34:07 AM
Town and Country Tractor in Monroe sells and services Kioti
They turn wrenches?
They do.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 29, 2017, 11:35:57 AM
Town and Country Tractor in Monroe sells and services Kioti
They turn wrenches?
They do.
Biggest shop around, and they seem to work on everything
Post by: whacker1 on March 29, 2017, 11:44:23 AM
Post by: Special T on March 29, 2017, 04:26:49 PM
Post by: Night goat on March 30, 2017, 12:40:51 AM
Anyway, I'm a boat mechanic, and deal with yanmar ALOT. I can't speak for their implement market, but as far as marine engines, they are world class. I would expect that the same engineering goes into the land based machines, and that there would be alot of cross referencing from marine to land engines. We have one boat at work, a Bertram 31, a super sexy boat, and it has twin yanmar 6LP turbo 24 valve inline sixes with Lexus valve covers, point being, is Yanmar uses Toyota engines in some applications, and other engine platforms in others, so, a weird tractor engine number might be a standard number in a different package if you can figure out what the engine originated from.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a yanmar..... EVER.
Damned fine machines
Post by: BrandonWatts on March 30, 2017, 06:07:05 AM
Post by: birdshooter1189 on March 30, 2017, 06:27:00 AM
http://www.townandcountrytractor.com/
Give them a call if you have questions.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 30, 2017, 07:46:30 AM
Can't say I have any tractor experience, but we have a small kubota in the shop at work right now, b series, and that's a bada$$ lil machine, considering the adjustable wheelbase. But it's only 25hp.
Anyway, I'm a boat mechanic, and deal with yanmar ALOT. I can't speak for their implement market, but as far as marine engines, they are world class. I would expect that the same engineering goes into the land based machines, and that there would be alot of cross referencing from marine to land engines. We have one boat at work, a Bertram 31, a super sexy boat, and it has twin yanmar 6LP turbo 24 valve inline sixes with Lexus valve covers, point being, is Yanmar uses Toyota engines in some applications, and other engine platforms in others, so, a weird tractor engine number might be a standard number in a different package if you can figure out what the engine originated from.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a yanmar..... EVER.
Damned fine machines
That's not really the point about Yanmar. Tehy've been building machines and engines for Deere for decades. My JD 950 tractor is a fully built Yanmar machine. What they have done several times is entered\the American market with products fully badged as Yanmar, and then in a hurry putting their customers and vendors in kind of a little pickle, but certainly in no way anandoned. They've also allowed that to happen with their rebadged machines like YanCubs.
Where they are involved with the grey market fight, and where it became brutle with no holds barred, was when a large number of Yanmars from the rice patties of Japan and South East Asia were exported to Vietnam and rebuilt in various ways, then further exported to North America Like was said these lacked so many safety features either mandated in the US or so expected by insurers that Yanmar USA freaked because their name was attached, as was liability.
I would think that engine parts are only half the battle, getting other parts could be more onerous. But on Tractorbynet and Hoye's site there are several grey market Yan owers who are very happy. I've been able to get enough parts for my 35 year old YanDeere that I'm happy.
Post by: Special T on March 30, 2017, 08:32:33 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 30, 2017, 08:38:33 AM
Motor and hydroloic pump probably make up 70%+ of the cost, especially in the smaller rigs with a hydrostat transmission.
Until your rockshaft assembly falls apart
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 30, 2017, 12:52:04 PM
I would be real nervous about getting support 10 years down the road with 800-1000 hours on the machine when you need support. Hard to say if they'd be around? Maybe the will and maybe shops would support it? I just wouldn't want to chance such a big investment that needs to work for a long time to get your money out of it.
What's the price difference between an equal kabota, John deere or new Holland?
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 30, 2017, 12:55:59 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 30, 2017, 01:21:15 PM
Here's what the experts have to say:
http://www.hoyetractor.com/modelstoavoid.htm
https://www.yanmar.com/global/notice.html
http://www.hoyetractor.com/YNMTractors.htm
http://www.hoyetractor.com/whomakes.htm
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 30, 2017, 01:28:28 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 30, 2017, 01:30:01 PM
1110 d. Cutest real little tractor in the world. Ran a tiller and flail mower like a champ. Never got stuck. Not once. It was a sweet rig.
It looked brand new but, had Japanese decals in places but, all major function decals were in English. Some backwards from the actual operation however.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 30, 2017, 01:34:46 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 30, 2017, 01:45:29 PM
Seems like it was a true grey. But that doesn't mean they were in fact unsafe, just that they were never meant for importation to North America, and no effort at support was ever contemplated. Yanmar has also cited cases of grey market refurbisher/importers rolling back the hour meter
I had a newer 20hp craftersman. It couldn't touch the yanmar 11hp diesel with a flail. It was just no longer viable for my needs. Bigger Kubota was mandatory. I miss the little guy.
Post by: oldleclercrd on March 30, 2017, 09:42:36 PM
Post by: oldleclercrd on March 30, 2017, 09:45:20 PM
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on March 30, 2017, 10:31:51 PM
Post by: BrandonWatts on March 31, 2017, 06:55:17 AM
Thanks guys
Post by: Special T on March 31, 2017, 08:05:43 AM
I guess we went from a kioti thread to a yanmar thread.I think part of that has to do with how much Myanmar stuff there is around. Lots of people with Myanmar experience not Kioti.
Thanks guys
Your buying new so you shouldn't really have any problems for a long time. They've been around since the mid 80s and been expanding so they likely arnt going anywhere.
The only real parts your likely to need to replace are starter alternator and some hydrolics. Romaine Electric can get you either of the first 2 and have stores all across the state. You will just have to find a reputable hydro shop. 2c
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 31, 2017, 08:09:08 AM
I guess we went from a kioti thread to a yanmar thread.
Thanks guys
Damn internet! Sorry about that. I guess we transmogrified everything when we started talking about dealer support, andwhat a transient relationship to brands many dealers have when you get away from JD, CNH, Kubota and Agco.
Tractorbynet is a good site, and you'll get an idea of the issues that all tractors have. I think you would be happy with a Kioti
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 31, 2017, 08:13:38 AM
I guess we went from a kioti thread to a yanmar thread.I think part of that has to do with how much Myanmar stuff there is around. Lots of people with Myanmar experience not Kioti.
Thanks guys
Started with Kioti, thence to Yanmar now onto geo-politics. Bring on Roundhead and JD Hasty
Post by: oldleclercrd on March 31, 2017, 08:53:25 AM
I guess we went from a kioti thread to a yanmar thread.
Thanks guys
Just a question. Guess I'd have to start a Yanmar thread to talk about it... don't get your undies in a bunch
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 31, 2017, 08:57:58 AM
I guess we went from a kioti thread to a yanmar thread.
Thanks guys
Just a question. Guess I'd have to start a Yanmar thread to talk about it... don't get your undies in a bunch
Go on and ask, we all love talking about tractors. I'm just a little limited in that my tractor is a almost forty year old YanDeere. Good machine though.
Post by: oldleclercrd on March 31, 2017, 09:02:38 AM
I guess we went from a kioti thread to a yanmar thread.
Thanks guys
Just a question. Guess I'd have to start a Yanmar thread to talk about it... don't get your undies in a bunch
Go on and ask, we all love talking about tractors. I'm just a little limited in that my tractor is a almost forty year old YanDeere. Good machine though.
That's the reaction I was hoping to get. Didn't see a need for 2 tractor threads. I appreciate the info I've got already.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 31, 2017, 09:12:49 AM
From my understanding. Some guys left kubota and started kioti.
Don't think so. One is a Japanese company around since before the Spanish-American war and the other is Korean and formed immediately after WWII.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 31, 2017, 11:45:15 AM
Post by: BrandonWatts on March 31, 2017, 10:39:14 PM
Wasn't directed towards you.I guess we went from a kioti thread to a yanmar thread.
Thanks guys
Just a question. Guess I'd have to start a Yanmar thread to talk about it... don't get your undies in a bunch
I think I will go and compare the kioti and kabotas. I have worked on John Deere, kabota and Ford tractors most all of them have been older machines besides the kabita mini excavator we have at work. All have been good machines.
I have a few guys around here I can go talk to that have kioti tractors I will talk to.
Post by: Jpmiller on April 06, 2017, 12:51:54 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on April 06, 2017, 08:35:50 PM
No PTO though. Just a thought.
Right, so you have to have a much bigger engine to run the much bigger hydraulic pump. Then every driven impliment be it a brush hog, flail mower. post hole digger etc will be more expensive because instead of a relatively cheap shaft and gear motor, you now need a hydraulic motor.
Post by: Lightning_Rider on April 06, 2017, 09:09:05 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on April 06, 2017, 09:29:35 PM
Post by: Lightning_Rider on April 06, 2017, 09:41:41 PM
I used to work at Harbor Saw, great people! My uncle still runs their Raymond shop, would definitely consider buying from them if you're in the marketI just bought a saw from your uncle last week. Great people for sure!
Post by: lamrith on April 07, 2017, 09:27:40 AM
I think part of that has to do with how much Myanmar stuff there is around. Lots of people with Myanmar experience not Kioti.
Your buying new so you shouldn't really have any problems for a long time. They've been around since the mid 80s and been expanding so they likely arnt going anywhere.
The only real parts your likely to need to replace are starter alternator and some hydrolics. Romaine Electric can get you either of the first 2 and have stores all across the state. You will just have to find a reputable hydro shop. 2c
One word (ok a few more than one) of caution about Hydraulic shops/repairs. Hydraulic shops are usually $100/hr. To rebuild a pump motor properly you are usually 8-10hrs labor with tear down, repair, rebuild and test, plus parts. Parts can be dealer only if available for many of these smaller machines... Looking $1500-2k usually and a brand new pump might be $2400, plus the tractor only worth $5k or less after 5-10yrs. Tough pill to swallow paying 1/2 equipment value just to keep it running..
Cylinders will be very small bore, not many shops can work on them and you run into the same issue in terms of labor/parts price versus equipment value and dealer new price for the cylinder.
Not trying to rain on parades here, I am wanting a small rig myself, but being in the Hyd Industry I have stayed away just knowing the potential long term issue with repairs on the hydraulics. The new mini tractors and excavators are really cool and fill important market segment, but long term maintenance/repair can be a nightmare for them if they break down. I deal with it everyday and feel bad for the small machine owners that just want their machine running and think the dealer charging $2400 for a drop in new replacement pump is outrageous so they start calling every Hyd shop in the book hoping to get it repair for a couple hundred bucks.
I will tell you above all else, as a machine owner keep these things in mind if it has hydraulics, regardless of brand or size of machine:
- Keep your hydraulic oil clean, it is the absolute #1 issue and cause of failure in hydraulic systems. If the Machine has QD fittings for the hoses, keep both sides capped at all times. Visually check them and even clean them before connecting hoses. Most systems are built to tolerances of .001", dirt smaller than you can see can cause damage, so do best to keep it as clean as possible, replace the Hyd filter regularly depending on hours run.
- #2 is heat, if your hyd lines are getting hot, find out why and fix it, stuck relief, bypassing valve, worn pump/motor. Heat thins the oil, it provides less lubrication, metal starts hitting metals and off you go putting debris in the system and also losing tolerances so parts do not float correctly even with thicker oil...
- #3 Iif you start having leaky shaft seals or slow function STOP running the machine and get it checked before it starts making noise. Once it makes noise it is too late and running it more destroys the rest of the system. Seals can wear out and start to leak, but if you put a new one on and it leaks your unit needs to be repaired, could be a worn shaft, or it could be internal bypass in case and if let go then pump/motor goes boom.
Post by: Special T on April 07, 2017, 10:22:36 AM
Post by: BrandonWatts on April 07, 2017, 11:56:06 AM
Hey Steven I will have to go talk to harbor saw.
Need to swing down and talk to you Dad about his. Travis told me he bought one.