Post by: bearpaw on April 18, 2017, 03:27:48 PM
Talked to a different rancher who lost at least two cattle last year in a different part of Stevens County, two confirmed wolf kills, took 9 months to get reimbursed, it could get real ugly for them now that the pack in their area has tasted beef! :yike:
Post by: WAPatriot on April 18, 2017, 03:33:00 PM
Post by: jackelope on April 18, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
Im sick and tired of you guys from the north east complaining about the wolves yet when you have the ability to deal with them you don't. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Only good wolf is a dead wolf pretty simple really when the opportunity presents itself let them have it.
Comical. How do they deal with it? You're suggesting they "should" be illegally killing them?
Post by: Timberstalker on April 18, 2017, 03:37:30 PM
Im sick and tired of you guys from the north east complaining about the wolves yet when you have the ability to deal with them you don't. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Only good wolf is a dead wolf pretty simple really when the opportunity presents itself let them have it.
Pretty sure Bearpaw's left pinky toe has put more effort into attempted wolf management, than you have ever dreamed of.
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2017, 03:38:33 PM
Proper control has to be state sponsored. SSS isn't going to make an impact, so my argument is why bother? YES by all means defend you and yours....but why subject yourself to the wrong side of the law if you're out shrooming/scouting/messing around and see a wolf?
Post by: bearpaw on April 18, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
Sadly, I don't ever expect wolves to be hunted by hunters in WA! :twocents:
Post by: WAPatriot on April 18, 2017, 03:42:41 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2017, 03:46:42 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 18, 2017, 04:04:46 PM
Quote from: bearpaw
Sadly, I don't ever expect wolves to be hunted by hunters in WA! :twocents:
[/quote
Sadly, I don't ever expect wolves to be hunted by hunters in WA! :twocents:
[/quote
As soon as they're fed delisted in central WA. I'm going to get me some nice headdresses made. :tup:
Post by: jackelope on April 18, 2017, 04:28:24 PM
A lot of effective ways to kill wolves without pulling any triggers. I hear fake sugar (Xylitol)gets the job done.
Amazing yet again.
Post by: Dan-o on April 18, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
Just because you don't like the law doesn't mean you get to ignore it..... unless you support the Oregon farmer who shot the 25 elk and left them to rot. He didn't like the law, either.
When people pick and choose which laws to obey, you have anarchy. I don't like our laws around wolves one bit. But I will work to change the law.
You're advocating acting just like the UC Berkeley leftist protesters: if you don't like the law, just ignore it.
Post by: bearpaw on April 18, 2017, 04:46:29 PM
Quote from: bearpaw
Sadly, I don't ever expect wolves to be hunted by hunters in WA! :twocents:
[/quote
As soon as they're fed delisted in central WA. I'm going to get me some nice headdresses made. :tup:
I think our only hope is the tribes regarding wolves. :tup:
Post by: Rainier10 on April 18, 2017, 06:47:20 PM
Wapatriot, you are just plain WRONG.:yeah:
Just because you don't like the law doesn't mean you get to ignore it..... unless you support the Oregon farmer who shot the 25 elk and left them to rot. He didn't like the law, either.
When people pick and choose which laws to obey, you have anarchy. I don't like our laws around wolves one bit. But I will work to change the law.
You're advocating acting just like the UC Berkeley leftist protesters: if you don't like the law, just ignore it.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on April 18, 2017, 08:10:57 PM
Post by: high country on April 18, 2017, 09:14:05 PM
Post by: OutHouse on April 19, 2017, 04:30:18 PM
I have nothing against wolf management, I fully support it. The problem is that WDFW does not support it and will make an example of anyone like they did Bill White a few years ago. In my profession I have to be 100% legal, I can't risk losing my outfitting licenses due to something stupid, it's not worth taking any chance of ruining my families livelihood. So I complain loudly! :tup:
Sadly, I don't ever expect wolves to be hunted by hunters in WA! :twocents:
Well, let's be fair with regard to Mr. White. He did just about everything possible to ensure that he got caught. And it wasn't the WDFW that did anything to him, it was the United States Attorney's Office. A relative of Mr. White (Tom?) did some tree work for me years ago. Rough around the edges but a cool guy.
When you say you support wolf management, what exactly do you mean? Like a hunting season for them?
Post by: villageidiot on April 19, 2017, 09:36:10 PM
We have many laws today that are unjust and if all we do is protest peacefully and try to change the law we will not succeed. Why do you suspect our forefathers put the second amendment into the constitution? It was to keep our government honest. When the citizens rise up against unjust laws, only then will it get changed. Unfortunately, this means breaking the law. At least this wolf problem does not require any human bloodshed like the war with Britian.
Post by: Dan-o on April 19, 2017, 09:48:58 PM
We must not forget that we were once owned by the British. We could have been good peasants and followed the law which was not to confront or take arms against our government which was the British. Luckily we had some strong willed people that had multiple armed confrontations with the British army. We also were trying to split the sheets with them legally but they refused to let us go. If it were not for the courageous men, many of which died at the hands of the British army we would not be a free United States of America today.
We have many laws today that are unjust and if all we do is protest peacefully and try to change the law we will not succeed. Why do you suspect our forefathers put the second amendment into the constitution? It was to keep our government honest. When the citizens rise up against unjust laws, only then will it get changed. Unfortunately, this means breaking the law. At least this wolf problem does not require any human bloodshed like the war with Britian.
So.....I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from....
It is our representatives who saddled us with this wolf recovery stuff, so pretty much our responsibility.
If any given citizen doesn't like a law, when does he get to decide not to obey it?
(This is a lot different than a ruler that won't listen; we get to elect them. Sucks for us that we keep voting to give our rights away.)
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2017, 10:30:04 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 20, 2017, 05:35:43 AM
Post by: NW SURVEYOR on April 20, 2017, 06:10:47 AM
I for one appriciate the fact that the Patriots formed a new government, declared and fought for independence from a British ruler, protesting laws which they felt were unjust. I believe that one of the fundemental issues was Taxation without Representation. While that was the case in 1776, we now have an elected (By the majority of the people) representives that pass laws which can generally be changed by the people. The fact that we are stuck with wolves is not pleasent to me, but that's the law.
Your statement abuot "Rising up against unjust laws" is a little over the top. Are we going to arm ourselves and fight the government so that they will allow wolf hunting. Using your reasoning, it could be argued that we should also rise up so that we can drive a little faster on the freeway, what the heck, let's not stop there.
How can you expect to be taken seriously with reteric like that?
The comparison of the Revolutionary War vs a bunch of wolves eating game animals is laughable.
You go ahead and start shooting wolves, I cherish my hunting priveliges and don't want to jeapordize them at this point in my life.
You should recruit you buddies and start shooting, me, I will try to vote in politicians who are more in my way of thinking.
Good luck with your revolution.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 20, 2017, 06:15:07 AM
:yeah: Isn't it supposed to be wolves that turn on their own members? :dunno:Im sick and tired of you guys from the north east complaining about the wolves yet when you have the ability to deal with them you don't. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Only good wolf is a dead wolf pretty simple really when the opportunity presents itself let them have it.
Pretty sure Bearpaw's left pinky toe has put more effort into attempted wolf management, than you have ever dreamed of.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 20, 2017, 06:16:17 AM
Quote from: bearpaw
Sadly, I don't ever expect wolves to be hunted by hunters in WA! :twocents:
[/quote
As soon as they're fed delisted in central WA. I'm going to get me some nice headdresses made. :tup:
Not sure I want to see you in a dress.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 20, 2017, 06:18:59 AM
We must not forget that we were once owned by the British. We could have been good peasants and followed the law which was not to confront or take arms against our government which was the British. Luckily we had some strong willed people that had multiple armed confrontations with the British army. We also were trying to split the sheets with them legally but they refused to let us go. If it were not for the courageous men, many of which died at the hands of the British army we would not be a free United States of America today.So you think an armed rebellion is what's needed here to change the wolf situation? Just trying to clarify your point. :dunno:
We have many laws today that are unjust and if all we do is protest peacefully and try to change the law we will not succeed. Why do you suspect our forefathers put the second amendment into the constitution? It was to keep our government honest. When the citizens rise up against unjust laws, only then will it get changed. Unfortunately, this means breaking the law. At least this wolf problem does not require any human bloodshed like the war with Britian.
Post by: borntoslay on April 20, 2017, 07:07:14 AM
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Post by: wolfbait on April 20, 2017, 07:44:41 AM
If you look at the history of the illegal introduction and how the USFWS refuse to confirm wolf packs etc. you will notice the same has happened with WDF&Wolves.
WDFW were finally forced to confirm a pack in the Methow Valley in 2008, after years of reports and sightings, along with hair, and scat samples, and the reason the pack was finally confirmed was because it was reported to the WSP for hanging out at a school bus stop in Carlton. “Hard to hide that 911 call”.. For years that one pack would be blamed for every wolf in the county.
Everyone has their opinion on how to fix the problem, from change the law to SS, which is the same. Even if the agenda driven WDFW were to open wolf hunting up today, it would change nothing Remember the 15 bp wolf plan 9 years ago and then the failure to confirm wolves and wolf predation on livestock unless forced to do so?
WY. MT, and Idaho had enough wolves to delist in 6-six years.
The environmentalist working along side the USFWS prolonged the delisting in ID, MT and Wyoming by suing at every turn, and having a very special judge. In Washingtons case WDFW already had the fix in by refusing to confirm wolves/wolf packs and then with their bogus 15 bp wolf plan, so that wolves would expand out of control before people realized it.
Wyoming stuck to their guns, and came out better then ID or MT.
WDFW claim wolves started “migrating” into WA in 2002. WDFW have slow played the people of WA, causing untold damage to the livestock industry and ungulates. In a nutshell, WDF&Wolves really don’t need the environmentalists lawsuits to prolong delisting, as we are seeing, although they do have them on the WAG for support and to help run the propaganda. Tea anyone?
Now 15 years later WDFW are sticking with their plan of delisting in the fog years down the road and wolves are seen in broad daylight scoping out their next slaughter house.
While livestock producers and ungulates are punished with an illegally introduced wolf by a corrupt agencies run by another corrupt agencies which flows from more corruption, people ponder on what is the best way to protect their interests. And the circle continues…………..
Post by: Special T on April 20, 2017, 07:58:44 AM
There are ways to take the fight back against the bunny huggers. Trials by jury can deflect much of the sting intended to make examples of people. Do you all remember the guy who shot the wolf outside of Pullman? He got a light slap on the wrist. Why? The local county officials and judges knew that the local population would take harsh treatment out on them come election time.
We Do NOT need an armed rebellion, just an organized one to send the message loud and clear to your local judges, prosecutors, County Councilmen that you are willing to expend all your effort against them.
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Post by: Special T on April 20, 2017, 08:01:23 AM
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Post by: bearpaw on April 20, 2017, 08:57:28 AM
And the USFW is trying to import Grizzly in the N cascades with the same game plan.
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Honestly a few grizzlies probably wouldn't cause much harm, we've had them for years in the northeast but grizzlies multiply much slower than wolves and haven't yet multiplied like wolves have to cause significant problems. A few wolves wouldn't cause much harm either, the problem is that the "huggers/greenies" in this state will prevent any management of predators at every turn. No matter how over populated grizzlies become, no matter how much trouble they cause for rural residents in WA, the huggers will prevent management by any means necessary. By controlling WDFW, by phony working groups, by legislation, by ballot box, by lawsuit, one way or another the huggers will prevent any meaningful management of predators in WA for as long as possible. The only possible chance for management of predators somewhere in the future is to convince enough residents of this state of the harm wolves/grizzlies/cougars do when their numbers are not managed, and that will take quite a long time unfortunately. Currently most urban dwellers could care less how many cattle or pets are eaten in rural areas or how much it costs rural residents, but once predators start impacting the suburbs we will begin to see a change in public attitude. :twocents:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 20, 2017, 09:40:00 AM
How often have you as a hunter voted on legislation outside of Wa?
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 20, 2017, 09:45:17 AM
Post by: bearpaw on April 20, 2017, 10:15:39 AM
Here in lies the problem. You don't just have Wa residents voting on Grizzlies or Wolves here in Wa. You have these coordinated groups from outside of Wa voting on issues that will probably never affect them. Example a greenie or tree hugger from Mississippi voting on reintroduction of grizzlies in the NCNP. :twocents:
How often have you as a hunter voted on legislation outside of Wa?
I think all Americans should have some say as to what happens in the national parks. But it's the residents of Washington and WA government (incluiding WDFW) who control what happens in the rest of the state. :twocents:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 20, 2017, 10:24:39 AM
Post by: bearpaw on April 20, 2017, 10:31:03 AM
That's fine and dandy but when its a coordinated effort that is not on the federal level only and paid to participate then it becomes a purchased effort.
I certainly agree it's a coordinated effort by groups but should be able to influence what happens in our parks. Residents in the states should have more control regarding management outside the parks. I really don't care if they want grizzlies or wolves in parks, but we should be able to control predator numbers outside the park.
Post by: PA BEN on April 26, 2017, 09:45:30 AM
Im sick and tired of you guys from the north east complaining about the wolves yet when you have the ability to deal with them you don't. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Only good wolf is a dead wolf pretty simple really when the opportunity presents itself let them have it.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 26, 2017, 10:05:56 AM
Post by: bearpaw on April 26, 2017, 02:24:25 PM
We know a rancher who has seen wolves numerous times passing through their property located right in the heart of one of the most human populated areas in the Colville Valley close to busy Hwy 395. This morning at daylight there was a black and two grays sitting on their haunches studying their cattle. :bash:
Talked to a different rancher who lost at least two cattle last year in a different part of Stevens County, two confirmed wolf kills, took 9 months to get reimbursed, it could get real ugly for them now that the pack in their area has tasted beef! :yike:
Another wolf was back, watching one of the cows give birth this morning. I had told the landowner they should try and scare these wolves away the next time they saw them. Fortunately they were able to scare the wolf away. They have seen these wolves watching their cattle numerous times, I really think it's just a matter of time. :bdid:
Post by: PA BEN on April 26, 2017, 05:57:27 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 26, 2017, 08:48:32 PM
Post by: hunter399 on April 26, 2017, 08:58:49 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on April 26, 2017, 08:59:25 PM
Post by: PA BEN on April 27, 2017, 05:14:04 AM
It was after a dog and was in several yards for a few nights in a row. The game department said it was a hybrid that's why it was so comfortable being in town.We had one running around the east side of chewelah last year, a chewelah cop took a shot at it one night. It hasn't been seen since. Here's a picture of it judge for yourself.
Do you know more to the story of the cop who took a shot at it .Was it attacking livestock, or pet,or what?
I don't have a problem with his actions,just wanted to hear more about it.
Post by: KFhunter on April 27, 2017, 08:11:47 AM
Quote
The game department said it was a hybrid that's why it was so comfortable being in town.
How convenient for the game dept. I'm pretty sure all the wolves around my place are hybrids too, if only a few fractional percentages...one drop rule work for wolves? None of them are pure.
Post by: bearpaw on April 27, 2017, 02:28:09 PM
QuoteThe game department said it was a hybrid that's why it was so comfortable being in town.
How convenient for the game dept. I'm pretty sure all the wolves around my place are hybrids too, if only a few fractional percentages...one drop rule work for wolves? None of them are pure.
:yeah: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on April 27, 2017, 02:29:12 PM
Post by: Eric M on April 27, 2017, 02:47:06 PM
Post by: hunter399 on April 27, 2017, 03:00:59 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 27, 2017, 03:54:10 PM
So what are the rules on shooting hybrids? Is it considered a wild dog and a pest or does the judicial system see wolf as soon as it's dead?
Shooting a "hybrid" is about the same as shooting a wolf. You can only shoot a dog(or hybrid) if it's threatening your livestock, same as a wolf at least on this side of the state.
Self defense of course also applies.