Post by: pc on April 20, 2017, 05:09:53 PM
Post by: OltHunter on April 21, 2017, 06:51:14 AM
Post by: EyeTooth on April 21, 2017, 07:40:01 AM
Post by: gee_unit360 on April 21, 2017, 08:48:08 AM
anyone notice the extreme drop in cow tags? odds will be worse than bull tags.
There is no rhyme or reason for WDFW dropping the amount of cow tags for many of the eastern units from 100 or 200 etc to 10. Watch, when the amount of special permit cow applicants drops to half or a third the amount of previous years the amount of special permits will be back up to what they were in 2016. It's all about the $$$$. When they lose money they'll change it back. Just my opinion. To go from 100 or 200 permits to 10 is drastic.
Post by: tgray on April 21, 2017, 11:11:29 AM
anyone notice the extreme drop in cow tags? odds will be worse than bull tags.:tup: best news I've seen in a long time, about time!
Post by: Antlershed on April 21, 2017, 11:41:12 AM
I'd be willing to bet the number of applicants won't drop very much. :twocents:anyone notice the extreme drop in cow tags? odds will be worse than bull tags.
There is no rhyme or reason for WDFW dropping the amount of cow tags for many of the eastern units from 100 or 200 etc to 10. Watch, when the amount of special permit cow applicants drops to half or a third the amount of previous years the amount of special permits will be back up to what they were in 2016. It's all about the $$$$. When they lose money they'll change it back. Just my opinion. To go from 100 or 200 permits to 10 is drastic.
Post by: WAcoueshunter on April 21, 2017, 11:44:25 AM
I'd be willing to bet the number of applicants won't drop very much. :twocents:anyone notice the extreme drop in cow tags? odds will be worse than bull tags.
There is no rhyme or reason for WDFW dropping the amount of cow tags for many of the eastern units from 100 or 200 etc to 10. Watch, when the amount of special permit cow applicants drops to half or a third the amount of previous years the amount of special permits will be back up to what they were in 2016. It's all about the $$$$. When they lose money they'll change it back. Just my opinion. To go from 100 or 200 permits to 10 is drastic.
Agreed. Everyone would just pay the $6 for a point anyway, might as well put your name in the hat for one of the tags.
Post by: OltHunter on April 21, 2017, 11:55:52 AM
I'd be willing to bet the number of applicants won't drop very much. :twocents:
Agreed. Everyone would just pay the $6 for a point anyway, might as well put your name in the hat for one of the tags.
I will do that same. I was hoping it was a typo...I don't remember a time the cow tags were this low, especially in the 340 unit where we usually hunt. The winter couldn't have been that hard on them and everything I've heard and experienced, the cow hunters didn't slaughter them last year.
Post by: buglebuster on April 21, 2017, 12:26:52 PM
Post by: stickman999 on April 21, 2017, 12:50:54 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 21, 2017, 12:57:08 PM
If they are that concerned about cows wouldn't they limit the archery guys as well?
Good point. The archery hunters take a lot of cows during the general season. No permit required. Seems odd to cut modern firearm permits as drastically as they did, and still allow unlimited cow harvest during the general archery seasons.
Post by: Bob33 on April 21, 2017, 01:07:28 PM
In 2015 general seasons, archery hunters reported killing 572 antlerless elk in District 8 which includes GMUs 328-371.If they are that concerned about cows wouldn't they limit the archery guys as well?
Good point. The archery hunters take a lot of cows during the general season. No permit required. Seems odd to cut modern firearm permits as drastically as they did, and still allow unlimited cow harvest during the general archery seasons.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2015/reports/elk_gmu.php?District=8
Post by: Rainier10 on April 21, 2017, 01:12:40 PM
anyone notice the extreme drop in cow tags? odds will be worse than bull tags.
In 2015 general seasons, archery hunters reported killing 572 antlerless elk in District 8 which includes GMUs 328-371.If they are that concerned about cows wouldn't they limit the archery guys as well?
Good point. The archery hunters take a lot of cows during the general season. No permit required. Seems odd to cut modern firearm permits as drastically as they did, and still allow unlimited cow harvest during the general archery seasons.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2015/reports/elk_gmu.php?District=8
I believe that two years ago they drastically increased the number of cow tags for MF hunters in those units. The reason was the herds were above objectives and the bull to cow ratio was out of order. They increased them to lower the number of elk. They gave out a ton of MF tags because they have the highest success in taking game.
Now that the herds are closer to objective levels they have reduced the number of cow tags given to MF hunters and gone back to the standard equation that they use for resource allocation.
Post by: stickman999 on April 21, 2017, 01:23:36 PM
Post by: Hi-Liter on April 21, 2017, 02:01:36 PM
Based on those statistics archers killed twice as many cows compared to modern and muzzleloaders combined. I have nothing against archery I just feel if they want to reduce opportunity to harvest cows it should be done in all user gcoups.
:yeah: I totally agree with you. I have nothing against archery either, but it makes me sick that they allow them to shoot a antlerless cow without a permit quota in place. I think what many are saying its harder for archery to kill an elk. But the above stats prove that wrong and the fact that technology has evolved over time (ie trail cams) :twocents:
Post by: Rainier10 on April 21, 2017, 02:26:26 PM
Based on those statistics archers killed twice as many cows compared to modern and muzzleloaders combined. I have nothing against archery I just feel if they want to reduce opportunity to harvest cows it should be done in all user gcoups.It's a numbers game. Take a look at how many bulls the archery guys took in comparison to the MF and muzzleloader guys combined.
You can use the numbers to argue either side.
Post by: sagerat on April 21, 2017, 02:26:55 PM
Based on those statistics archers killed twice as many cows compared to modern and muzzleloaders combined. I have nothing against archery I just feel if they want to reduce opportunity to harvest cows it should be done in all user gcoups.
:yeah: I totally agree with you. I have nothing against archery either, but it makes me sick that they allow them to shoot a antlerless cow without a permit quota in place. I think what many are saying its harder for archery to kill an elk. But the above stats prove that wrong and the fact that technology has evolved over time (ie trail cams) :twocents:
Not to mention all the stick and release cows that die... I hear the stories every year
Post by: Rainier10 on April 21, 2017, 02:31:56 PM
Oh boy, here we go.Based on those statistics archers killed twice as many cows compared to modern and muzzleloaders combined. I have nothing against archery I just feel if they want to reduce opportunity to harvest cows it should be done in all user gcoups.
:yeah: I totally agree with you. I have nothing against archery either, but it makes me sick that they allow them to shoot a antlerless cow without a permit quota in place. I think what many are saying its harder for archery to kill an elk. But the above stats prove that wrong and the fact that technology has evolved over time (ie trail cams) :twocents:
Not to mention all the stick and release cows that die... I hear the stories every year
I have property right in the heart of these units and see I plenty of archery, muzzleloader and modern firearm left for dead elk each year. No user group is free of that type of thing.
Post by: buglebrush on April 21, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Based on those statistics archers killed twice as many cows compared to modern and muzzleloaders combined. I have nothing against archery I just feel if they want to reduce opportunity to harvest cows it should be done in all user gcoups.
:yeah: I totally agree with you. I have nothing against archery either, but it makes me sick that they allow them to shoot a antlerless cow without a permit quota in place. I think what many are saying its harder for archery to kill an elk. But the above stats prove that wrong and the fact that technology has evolved over time (ie trail cams) :twocents:
It is much much harder to harvest an elk with Archery equipment. The old saying " 90% of the elk are killed by the same 10% of hunters" has a bearing here. Generally speaking people who choose Archery are the more Experienced / Dedicated hunters meaning that Archers will take a disproportionate amount of elk. If you would put those same hunters in the field with another weapon they would still kill an elk almost every year. Of course there are fantastic hunters out there during Modern season, but I do believe that this holds true for the average users. :twocents: :twocents:
Post by: crabcreekhunter on April 21, 2017, 05:14:38 PM
Post by: Shawn Ryan on April 21, 2017, 06:31:29 PM
Based on those statistics archers killed twice as many cows compared to modern and muzzleloaders combined. I have nothing against archery I just feel if they want to reduce opportunity to harvest cows it should be done in all user gcoups.
Not trying to start a fight, but would you apply that exact same logic to the bull harvest, which is 9 times as great for modern and muzzle (combined 700) compared to archery bull harvest (78)? Limit the modern and muzzle shooters to shooting spikes only if they draw a permit? Yikes!
Post by: buglebrush on April 21, 2017, 11:59:12 PM
I dont believe that archers/archery hunters are better or more dedicated in anyway whatsoever over modern or muzzle loader. I wont say what i really want to say since all hunters are a positive and working for the same things. On that note, I wish cow tags were more distributed throughout weapon types, than unlimited for archery and 10 for modern in some units, thats bs!! Im glad to see a cut in tags, if it is in fact what is needed for our elk and deer herds.
Don't forget that my comment was about the average hunter. I'm curious if you really believe that the same percentage of gun hunters are hardcore as archers? If you stop personalizing it, I believe you'll agree that most road hunters, weekend warriors, and beginners are rifle hunters just because it is easiest. That's not a knock on those that are hardcore, and their weapon of choice is a rifle. Fact is almost all current archers started out as rifle hunters. :twocents:
Post by: dreamingbig on April 22, 2017, 02:00:40 AM
anyone notice the extreme drop in cow tags? odds will be worse than bull tags.This information has been out for awhile. They have to publish their proposed changes prior to meeting to approve.
They are claiming winter kill for the changes.
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Post by: Miles on April 22, 2017, 06:57:19 AM
Post by: Hi-Liter on April 22, 2017, 08:54:35 AM
Post by: crabcreekhunter on April 22, 2017, 09:15:23 AM
Percentage wise per user group you are probably correct but percentage wise as a whole as a hunting community I think modern has more but our definitions of hardcore may be different. Have good friends that are both depending on seasons. I feel more youth are starting out into archery and young rifle hunters (not hardcore) are making the switch to archery due to longer seasons and better season dates. Either way, archers made their choice and rifle made their choice, if I dont like my seasons I can always switch too. Its always a give and take in this populated state anyways, good luck this upcoming season.I dont believe that archers/archery hunters are better or more dedicated in anyway whatsoever over modern or muzzle loader. I wont say what i really want to say since all hunters are a positive and working for the same things. On that note, I wish cow tags were more distributed throughout weapon types, than unlimited for archery and 10 for modern in some units, thats bs!! Im glad to see a cut in tags, if it is in fact what is needed for our elk and deer herds.
Don't forget that my comment was about the average hunter. I'm curious if you really believe that the same percentage of gun hunters are hardcore as archers? If you stop personalizing it, I believe you'll agree that most road hunters, weekend warriors, and beginners are rifle hunters just because it is easiest. That's not a knock on those that are hardcore, and their weapon of choice is a rifle. Fact is almost all current archers started out as rifle hunters. :twocents:
Post by: jstone on April 22, 2017, 12:34:43 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 22, 2017, 02:18:37 PM