Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Coyote, Small Game, Varmints => Topic started by: ivarhusa on February 21, 2009, 05:55:48 PM

Title: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: ivarhusa on February 21, 2009, 05:55:48 PM: Hunters,

I have called in a total of 4 song dogs (that I know of) and three of the four were on a track to circle my position (I believe) at roughly 200 yds. The fourth one retreated almost straight away.

I am hunting in shrub steppe territory, without real barriers to travel (steep ground or open water). Are these dogs always going to take the long way around? I'd like to take a shot at 100 or even 50 yards for a change. I missed two today (my best day ever!). One was a retreating dog I took a poke at while it was 400-500 yards away (my dang range finder doesn't reach out that far in my terrain). The other got the benefit of my coyote fever. The crosshairs were dancing like a dog eating *censored*. (Later, after the adrenaline passed, I was able to "hold steady" at that range. It was the fever, all right.)

I get antsy when they get cross-wind of me, and I can't see downwind particularly. I felt I've had to take the shot or let the critter go.

Does anything turn a dog "in", or does "what goes around, ... goes around"?

It was a lovely day to hunt in eastern Washington. Briskly cold in the AM, but warming with the sun.

Ivar

PS does anybody have a solid recommendation for a range finder that is reliable out to 500+ yards on drab (non reflective) backgrounds, like dead grass and sage?
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: shoot-em-dead on February 21, 2009, 06:52:06 PM: My limited experience says if you spot one at 200yds and he's not coming at you then he has already spotted you and you best start shooting. As far as the coyote fever (Adrenalin) that is what I love about hunting yotes is the ability to overcome the shakes. I went out today with a friend and he got one on a spot an stalk. I wish I had a camera for the coyote madness forum. He said when he spotted it he yelled at it to get a running shot but it took off straight away and he didn't think that was fair so he shot at its' heels to get the zigzag effect and finally dropped it at 750 yds with his 22-250. Just didn't sound right to me because I was 150yds away from him when I heard 1 shot. I had him point it out and the range finder showed a dead dog at 212yds. I love hunting with a good bser. We had a good day.
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: Gutpile on February 21, 2009, 07:36:21 PM: They'll almost always downwind you. I've noticed since I started using my Foxpro more they downwind from further like you mentioned. I really think it's because most guys (me included) play the foxpro way to loud. Back when all I did was hand call my average shot was 150 yards. This year my average must be 230ish with only one at less than 100 and two just barely over 100.

I don't know but I really think thats the reason in my case. But the areas a guy hunts will play a role too. If your in a high pressure area they wont come charging in like they will in lightly hunted spots. They may go to there "comfort distance" and just sit and watch trying to figure you out. Sometimes if you have a pair the one wont come if the other wont. If you have a dog hung up who keeps looking over it's shoulder it's probably with a mate who wants nothing to do with your calls.

Just my :twocents: I'm not sure I'll ever figure those damn things out though. When you do let me know. They are very smart critters.
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: jackelope on February 21, 2009, 07:57:11 PM: i think they always try to get downwind as well, and i think one of the things you might try is to set up so you can see/shoot downwind.
the other thing i think is that you should not plan to have time to use your rangefinder with a coyote. do it before hand and set up some reference points. i have a less expensive rangefinder and find that if i use it on my shooting sticks it works a lot further than freehand.
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: Sage Weasel on February 21, 2009, 08:19:43 PM: If You give them long enough they will ALWAYS circle down wind almost EVERY TIME !....
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: Big10gauge on February 21, 2009, 08:50:56 PM: BullElk and I are sitting here drinking BV and coke and reading the coyote posts. We're going to have to say that very few of the coyotes we call circle downwind, They usually are commited in a straight path to the call and we usually have to bark to stop them before they run us over. What we do notice is that their approach is more dictated by terrain than wind. I will mention that when a coyote is suspicious, they do tend to start to circle at the closer ranges of 100yds or less especially on flatter ground.Also if you're using a E-caller, the minute you see a coyote you better turn down the volume or they'll probably hold up or start to circle. Ok back to the drinks my throat's getting dry.
Title: Maybe they do see me, but...
Post by: ivarhusa on February 21, 2009, 09:04:11 PM: I appreciate the responses so far. I believe I am doing well with being very still, moving call on lanyard to mouth, then rotating head... those are the only movements I am aware of.

That being said, I will allow that I am picking up these coyotes visually when they are on the move- laterally and not toward me. That does raise the suspicion that maybe they saw me. On my last stand, I was able to shift my bipod when the critter had his head down and was moving. When he stopped he would look my direction- but I can't tell if he really has seen me, or is just looking for the sound.

The first critter I saw today. That was a sad/funny story. He came out of the sage and onto a cut corn field at 250 yards away (previously measured a couple of weeks ago). I was trying to squeeze off a round, after barking to get his to stop and nothing was happening. SAFETY ON! By the time I got the safety off, he was head down, sniffing across the corn field- right behind the horizontal pipe of a center pivot system. He didn't seem to be paying me any attention, but turned his back to me and trotted off. I got a shot off when he stopped again, but it was an optimistic shot to take. I later figured he was over 400 yards away, and I hadn't planned that shot well. I walked out there to be sure I had missed. I couldn't tell at the shot (but didn't hear the ka-whump).

I learned my lesson about checking the safety. Oh, if I use the range finder, it isn't with a critter in view. I appreciate the suggestion that perhaps it will "range farther" if on a steady mount. I'll try that. I am skeptical, but I'll try it.

Ivar
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on February 22, 2009, 08:18:58 AM: In my experiences I've called in only about 5 dozen coyotes in E.Wa, and I found most of them come straight at the call, then start a circling trot about 35 yards out (I assume they are trying to get downwind). The ones that did hang up at 200 yards seem to do so because the lay of the land is not "right". I think if the land has a "path" to the call, the coyotes will come running, but if they feel a little exposed with no sort of escape, they will potentially hang. I assume the ones that just rush in with no care for cover are really hungry also.

In W. Washington, they just appear about 10 yards from the call or decoy. Or if there's a road, you'll see them purposefully pop out as far out on the road as possible, then come running when they determine they're hungry enough for the risk of exposing themselves.
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: rasbo on February 22, 2009, 08:33:06 AM: every dog Ive called came straight at me,I dont shoot till they notice something wrong,and they will stop and boom.where I lived in se Idaho magpies where first in when they flaired I knew the distance the dog could see me.Ive had bobs come in from behind me and leave.
Title: I'm not worthy
Post by: ivarhusa on February 23, 2009, 03:49:56 PM: OK, guys. Since I am not watching these first dogs coming toward me with head down, I have to accept that I am being spotted first. It could be the movement of putting call to lips, or turning my head (even slowly) to scan for incoming dogs. I'll try harder.

It takes a while to program our brains to "see" the critter efficiently. Before taking up hunting them this last year, I saw one coyote perhaps every three or four years. When I was a kid, my older sister and her husband (my brother in law) could spot 5 deer for every one I could see, just rolling down the country road with eyes peeled. The the more coyotes I actually see, the higher percentage of them I will see in the future. It sounds like a fun journey, if frustrating at the moment.

I am looking forward to calling that first dog to within 50 yards.

Ivar
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: tlbradford on February 23, 2009, 04:27:41 PM: Ivar, the answer to your question is yes and no. There are just to many scenarios that come into play. Terrain, time of year, wind direction, conditioned coyotes. If we are being very specific to sagebrush country, you will definately get some close encounters (ie: 20 yards and closer). Most of my coyotes in this type of country follow the path of least resistance, like a game trail. If you think about where these trails are, it can be a fencline, along a brushy bank, in a low lying ditch, basically anything that gives them a lot of concealment during the approach. This is why a good set-up with an idea of how the coyote will want to travel to the call, will help you kill more coyotes. If all they are doing is circling you at 150-250 yards, something is making them cautious. That could be something they see, smell or hear. They could spot movement during calling or during your approach to your stand, but be unsure as to what they are seeing. They could have caught wind of an unfamiliar scent, or they could be hearing a sound that they associate with being shot at.

I think you have the hang of it from your descriptions of your technique. In the past when I have been getting busted it was usually a result of overcalling. In the sage they will have a real good idea of where you are within a 25 yards circle within about 2 seconds of hearing the sound. They will be scanning this area during their aproach and will be looking for movement. If they are already looking in that area it doesn't take much movement at all to get their attention. Sometimes it is a good idea to get a watch and give 2-3 minutes of rest between call sequences. I'll count backwards from 300 if I think I am getting antsy and calling to often.
Title: Two to three full minutes, really...
Post by: ivarhusa on February 23, 2009, 05:26:26 PM: I appreciate what you are telling me TL. I was thinking along those lines Sunday, and purchased a $10 wristwatch. I slung it from my calling lanyard, but now I think a better strategy is to hang it in front of my face on my shooting sticks. No movement to observe it. A hole and a tie-wrap and I will be in business.

I think perhaps I could be sounding off too frequently. I am trying to be 'sure' I don't see a coyote coming in before starting another series, but then it is likely I am not as successful at observation as I would like to be. Calling less frequently will help.

Thanks. I'm paying attention.

Ivar
Title: Re: Coyotes circling at 200 yds +/- 50 yds. Is that all we can hope for?
Post by: Bofire on February 23, 2009, 05:46:31 PM: I think you are doing well. I have had them: freeze up at stopping calling, lowering volume, changing sounds, just because. I have had them come running in for the same reasons. I have shut down the main sound a squeakeed them in and ran them off!! Here is what I tend to do now, and it changes at every stand.
I sneak in, I mean sneak!
watch the wind, in your approach try to move in, set the caller(if electronic) and go to stand with the least movement possible.
Look around, guess distances, look over your area.
call quiet, I mean quiet for a few minutes. raise volume call with your heart.
eyes open, call more.
keep it up until you see a yote or get tired.
go hunting
Carl