Post by: theleo on June 01, 2017, 12:58:40 PM
My dad was given a 91' dodge 2500 a few years ago, as it sits it has about 100,000 miles on it. It was well taken care and the vast majority of those miles were on I-84 between LaGrande and Boise. He's not overly fond of this truck, preferring his 2015 Chevy, and it's what I normally nab the keys for when I'm over there and want to take the mules some where towing a horse trailer.
Would this be a pickup worth potentially trying to talk him out of? Would it be terribly expensive to upgrade parts (all are still original factory) to where a guy doesn't get a cramp in his leg from pegging the gas pedal to the floor trying make the speed limit on the freeway? Educate me gents.
Post by: KFhunter on June 01, 2017, 01:00:21 PM
Post by: Henrydog on June 01, 2017, 01:05:40 PM
Post by: Special T on June 01, 2017, 01:17:54 PM
In an ideal world I would put performance injectors, bump the fuel pressure, put on a newer style 6speed stick.
Is 4wd?
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Post by: Special T on June 01, 2017, 01:23:58 PM
If I got my hands on it I would purchase a military M37 powerwagon with good tin (If 4x4) put 5" exhaust lift and big tires.
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Post by: theleo on June 01, 2017, 02:01:02 PM
leave it stock and drive it for 900,000 more miles :tup:
Yup take it and don't put anything aftermarket on it, it will run forever. Bone stock ones are hard to find, damn kids are always messing with them.I do understand where you guys are coming from, my only issue with bone stock is when I trailer 2 mules in a 4 horse bumper pull to Idaho elk hunting I'm doing good to get it up to 70 mph on flats and chugs diesel like mad. If it's going to chug diesel like that I'd rather it be at the speed limit there.
Get it and stick a 6 speed stick in it after the juice box pukes. Depending on what you can get it for it's a major score with that low of miles.Yeah, it's a 4wd automatic with locking front hubs. I'm sure it'd be better as a stick, but in 4wd low and the hubs out there's still plenty of compression for it to hold back a trailer load full of stock coming out of the mountains.
In an ideal world I would put performance injectors, bump the fuel pressure, put on a newer style 6speed stick.
Is 4wd?
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Post by: Special T on June 01, 2017, 02:12:34 PM
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Post by: tlbradford on June 01, 2017, 02:18:16 PM
Post by: KFhunter on June 01, 2017, 02:23:07 PM
You'd need to be running twins to make anything over a 4 inch worth while, I would go 4 inch.
A diamond eye 4" exhaust is very reasonable and will last a long time. I have one on mine and I get a lot of complements on the noise and it's holding up very well. I like them quiet, kids like to rumble this is a good compromise.
That stock transmission (A727) is 99% of your problem (even though it's nearly bulletproof) you don't have an overdrive and you're hitting the rev limiter at 72mph. A 47rh swap with a TC-lock would be "doable" and cure your slow speed blues. You'll need some adapter plates and move the transmission support and recut drivelines but it's doable.
I wouldn't fart with the engine, exhaust or anything else until you have some legs on that girl (actually I'd build up the steering components, a 1991 Dodge over 70mph is scary)
Post by: KFhunter on June 01, 2017, 02:33:37 PM
(air heats when you compress it, makes it less dense = less power gains)
Post by: Mudman on June 01, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Post by: theleo on June 01, 2017, 02:52:24 PM
Ok in that case some very mild improvements can be made cheap. Help her breath. 5" exhaust AND some kind of cold intake in the front. I'd still do the 19.5 wheels and that would be the most expensive part.Cold air intake and exhaust for something like $500-$700? If cheap upgrades will make a difference I'd likely abduct the truck and have the upgrades done before even getting a yay or nay on if he wanted them done.
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There's an overdrive button on the dash that gives me a little extra but not much. The steering is fun, floating between lines, the scary part was finding out how old the breaks were going downhill on twisty grade. They have been dealt with though.
That stock transmission (A727) is 99% of your problem (even though it's nearly bulletproof) you don't have an overdrive and you're hitting the rev limiter at 72mph. A 47rh swap with a TC-lock would be "doable" and cure your slow speed blues. You'll need some adapter plates and move the transmission support and recut drivelines but it's doable.
I wouldn't fart with the engine, exhaust or anything else until you have some legs on that girl (actually I'd build up the steering components, a 1991 Dodge over 70mph is scary)
Post by: Buzz2401 on June 01, 2017, 03:18:57 PM
Post by: theleo on June 01, 2017, 03:48:35 PM
I would not bother with it. Its got one good thing going for it and that's the cummins and even at that it is a very under powered motor. 170hp and 400lb/ft torque is less then most half ton pick ups of today. The rest of the truck isn't worth dumping money into. Parting it out would probably be best solution. If your looking for a project then it could be fun but it will cost money and you will still have a 1990's truck with 1990's tech.
The horsepower stinks, I'm aware, but the torque is slightly higher than the Vortec V8 in current 3/4 ton chevies. Tech is whatever, I don't need/want bells and whistles that come with a $30,000+ truck. The daily driver is a 2011 Sonata, the kick around the woods truck is a 94' Toyota pickup.
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Post by: Special T on June 01, 2017, 04:26:49 PM
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Post by: Night goat on June 01, 2017, 06:22:40 PM
these guys are right about not monkeying with it.
im a marine diesel mechanic, and know the 6b, 6bt, 6bta and all configurations of the marine aplication up to 330hp, and regard it as a bulletproof platform, the trucks are no exception, transmission is always the weakest point on the dodge.
a turbo shortens a life of an engine by 15%, a chip, id assume another 15%, treat it nice and it will do what you need
:twocents:
Post by: Mudman on June 01, 2017, 09:21:29 PM
Post by: 2labs on June 01, 2017, 10:04:41 PM
I'm day dreaming a little bit here, but since I've never been an expert in mechanics I'm put this up for discussion.
My dad was given a 91' dodge 2500 a few years ago, as it sits it has about 100,000 miles on it. It was well taken care and the vast majority of those miles were on I-84 between LaGrande and Boise. He's not overly fond of this truck, preferring his 2015 Chevy, and it's what I normally nab the keys for when I'm over there and want to take the mules some where towing a horse trailer.
Would this be a pickup worth potentially trying to talk him out of? Would it be terribly expensive to upgrade parts (all are still original factory) to where a guy doesn't get a cramp in his leg from pegging the gas pedal to the floor trying make the speed limit on the freeway? Educate me gents.
Brother, that might be the " holy grail" of trucks?
Post by: Miles on June 05, 2017, 05:11:57 AM
Post by: brush hunter on June 05, 2017, 05:53:24 AM
Post by: BUTTER on June 05, 2017, 07:00:15 AM
Post by: theleo on June 05, 2017, 02:59:30 PM
First off is it a '91 or a '91.5? Gauges and 4" exhaust is what you want, slightly bigger injectors, twins and a bigger fuel pin. also you want to have the KDP taken care of.Can't say as I know the difference between a 91 and 91.5.
I had a 93 first gen. Was a beautiful truck. Just a few things to know they ride worst Than anything you have ever drove in. The automatic will highly disappoint you with it's towing power. The paint on these trucks like to chip. The head bolts that are stock are the weak link lots of heads get blown with out upgraded head bolts. The brakes on these trucks are not very good you will go through lots of brakes with heavy loads. But if this truck has 100k miles and is an extended cab low miles if you can buy for the right price you will not lose much money these trucks are very highly soubt after. I sold mine over the phone in ten hrs for way more than I bought it and the guy never even came and seen the pickupYeah, it's a ruff riding SOB but I'm young, so my butt can stand the bouncing around on a bench seat for a few more years.
Post by: KFhunter on June 05, 2017, 10:14:36 PM
Post by: brush hunter on June 06, 2017, 04:37:02 AM
'91.5 is the when they started putting intercoolers on the truck.First off is it a '91 or a '91.5? Gauges and 4" exhaust is what you want, slightly bigger injectors, twins and a bigger fuel pin. also you want to have the KDP taken care of.Can't say as I know the difference between a 91 and 91.5.I had a 93 first gen. Was a beautiful truck. Just a few things to know they ride worst Than anything you have ever drove in. The automatic will highly disappoint you with it's towing power. The paint on these trucks like to chip. The head bolts that are stock are the weak link lots of heads get blown with out upgraded head bolts. The brakes on these trucks are not very good you will go through lots of brakes with heavy loads. But if this truck has 100k miles and is an extended cab low miles if you can buy for the right price you will not lose much money these trucks are very highly soubt after. I sold mine over the phone in ten hrs for way more than I bought it and the guy never even came and seen the pickupYeah, it's a ruff riding SOB but I'm young, so my butt can stand the bouncing around on a bench seat for a few more years.
Post by: BUTTER on June 06, 2017, 06:23:15 AM
Post by: Special T on June 06, 2017, 09:23:37 AM
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Post by: brush hunter on June 08, 2017, 04:26:28 AM
Don't pay any attention to the haters or nay sayers. That rig is what lots of diesel guys are after. Joint a DODGE Cummins forum and read up on all the best bang for the buck upgrades you can do and enjoy!I bought mine new and still have it and love to drive it, it needs paint but is still running strong.
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Post by: Mudman on June 08, 2017, 10:24:18 AM
Post by: theleo on June 09, 2017, 10:10:00 AM
"Theleo" have you researched the mods and cost and truck yet? What ya thinking? I advise not letting it slip away..The truck isn't going anywhere anytime soon. From what I've looked into I'd likely do the exhaust and have an intercooler put in it. I'm likely going to nab the truck and have those done regardless. Like I said my dads not attached to it, so he won't say anything if I put some money into it for some minor upgrades to make it a better towing rig.
Post by: Mudman on June 09, 2017, 10:18:26 AM
Post by: theleo on June 09, 2017, 10:47:14 AM
Sweet. Intercoolers are big $. Hit up wrecking yards. A 6.0 ford is a good big one, I used to have one but sold it. The Killer dowel pin, 3200k rpm mod and fuel screw and exhaust would be my list. A BAF big ass air filter from NAPA 6637 is perfect. If you did these mods I think you would be 500+torque and close to 300hp. HUGE improvement. $1000 would more than do it minus intercooler that's a variable.It'll be a process. Exhausts look like they're around $350 then there's putting it on... Air filter/cold air intake about the same. I'll start there then abduct it again for an intercooler at some point. Now the researching of exhaust systems...
Post by: KFhunter on June 09, 2017, 11:45:02 AM
BHAF (big honking air filter) (NAPA 6637) has been proven debunked, it doesn't add the claimed power just takes up a ton of room and makes more noise. You don't need to add much in the way of air until you add fuel, but adding RPM via a governor spring kit you should add increased air flow.
Adding a governor spring kit will keep the engine adding fuel longer through the revs but won't increase the overall available fuel, it just won't retard fuel until well past 3000rpm - usually about 33-3500 RPM before it retards fuel which is a big huge improvement over having your fuel retard at 1800 rpm or whatever it is, been awhile since I've driven a stock 12v. That will make the truck feel like it has longer legs, but really you'll just be revving harder. I wouldn't recommend rolling down the interstate 80MPH at a high RPM for hours on end.
Post by: theleo on June 09, 2017, 11:50:10 AM
You're not going to get 300hp without adding fuel :chuckle:So you're saying a different exhaust and air intake (stock filter, K&N filter, or complete cold air intake) has no benefit at all?
BHAF (big honking air filter) (NAPA 6637) has been proven debunked, it doesn't add the claimed power just takes up a ton of room and makes more noise. You don't need to add much in the way of air until you add fuel, but adding RPM via a governor spring kit you should add increased air flow.
Adding a governor spring kit will keep the engine adding fuel longer through the revs but won't increase the overall available fuel, it just won't retard fuel until well past 3000rpm - usually about 33-3500 RPM before it retards fuel which is a big huge improvement over having your fuel retard at 1800 rpm or whatever it is, been awhile since I've driven a stock 12v. That will make the truck feel like it has longer legs, but really you'll just be revving harder. I wouldn't recommend rolling down the interstate 80MPH at a high RPM for hours on end.
Post by: baker5150 on June 09, 2017, 12:06:34 PM
You're not going to get 300hp without adding fuel :chuckle:So you're saying a different exhaust and air intake (stock filter, K&N filter, or complete cold air intake) has no benefit at all?
BHAF (big honking air filter) (NAPA 6637) has been proven debunked, it doesn't add the claimed power just takes up a ton of room and makes more noise. You don't need to add much in the way of air until you add fuel, but adding RPM via a governor spring kit you should add increased air flow.
Adding a governor spring kit will keep the engine adding fuel longer through the revs but won't increase the overall available fuel, it just won't retard fuel until well past 3000rpm - usually about 33-3500 RPM before it retards fuel which is a big huge improvement over having your fuel retard at 1800 rpm or whatever it is, been awhile since I've driven a stock 12v. That will make the truck feel like it has longer legs, but really you'll just be revving harder. I wouldn't recommend rolling down the interstate 80MPH at a high RPM for hours on end.
A lot of guys have seen little to no benefit adding an aftermarket air filter on a stock+ turbo diesel. Most of the factory units flow plenty of air.
Don't use a K&N air filter on a Turbo Diesel, you'll get lots of opinions both ways on this, but I personally won't take the risk of dusting my motor.
Post by: KFhunter on June 09, 2017, 12:30:38 PM
The stuff you're mentioning doing (intercooler, exhaust, air filter) are all things you'll need to do if you plan to increase the power, but to see a significant increase power gain you'll need to add fuel. It's a balance ratio.
BEFORE YOU ADD FUEL make sure you have gauges, even mild 50 hp injector sticks will send your exhaust temp (EGT) to the moon and can damage your engine, manifold and melt down your turbo.
Actually I'd add full gauges before I did much of anything.
Post by: Special T on June 09, 2017, 12:39:48 PM
:yeah:This is wise especially since it has an auto transmission.
The stuff you're mentioning doing (intercooler, exhaust, air filter) are all things you'll need to do if you plan to increase the power, but to see a significant increase power gain you'll need to add fuel. It's a balance ratio.
BEFORE YOU ADD FUEL make sure you have gauges, even mild 50 hp injector sticks will send your exhaust temp (EGT) to the moon and can damage your engine, manifold and melt down your turbo.
Actually I'd add full gauges before I did much of anything.
I think you will have plenty of flow with a stock air cleaner just change on a regular basis. Bigger exhaust helps pull heat away making everything last longer and adding flow.
1 exhaust 2 temp tower ( auto trans& exhaust )3govenor spring, 4 intercooler
That would be my order of investment.
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Post by: Mudman on June 09, 2017, 12:58:51 PM
Post by: Special T on June 09, 2017, 01:06:55 PM
Bah humbug. Good quality cooling turbo n intake (off a 98 dodge maybe). The old 12v fuel spring mod pin and exhaust air filter. Good to go. 225-275hp and 500tq. Gauges. Will run till truck falls apart and still use crap old oil for fuel if ya like. Check the killer dowel pin also. Read this. 1500$ http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/engine/1001dp-1989-to-1993-dodge-ram-power-recipes/but you can do it cheaper.Couldn't access this article. Dunno
While I'm not opposed to a bigger filter my experience has been that common parts are important because they can be had anywhere anytime.
This is no substitute for being able to walk into any parts shop and pick up an air/fuel filter. That said if that part number for the big air cleaner is a common one for semi trucks it may be a win win. I personally just use stock and change more often. 2c
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Post by: KFhunter on June 09, 2017, 01:07:20 PM
Quote
I think you will have plenty of flow with a stock air cleaner just change on a regular basis. Bigger exhaust helps pull heat away making everything last longer and adding flow.
1 exhaust 2 temp tower ( auto trans& exhaust )3govenor spring, 4 intercooler
That would be my order of investment.
Nothing wrong with that order of investment, might be fun to put gauges on it before you do anything else just to see what the baseline is while bone stock. Then any improvements you'll see some changes in what the gauges read.
Also, a transmission temp gauge will help you determine the health of the transmission. Anything over 220 and the longevity is decreased, not linier but compounded. 200 is too much for me, I've had a lot of transmission failure before I gauged it and put in an aftermarket cooler with a fan. I was pulling hay and campers up steep mountain roads, transmission slip will show up on the gauges as heat pretty quickly.
I would love a G56 swap.
Post by: Mudman on June 09, 2017, 01:12:56 PM
Post by: Special T on June 09, 2017, 01:15:23 PM
Filtering fuel is always good, but exponentially more important on a common rail system.
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Post by: KFhunter on June 09, 2017, 01:15:41 PM
Wow. Big air filter last longer. Filters better. Plenty or air if needed. Way cheaper then fancy kits, so ya its a great mod. Stock exhaust is crap and does improve things. $300 kit easy to bolt on. KF did you read my truck trend link I posted for him? You need to. Baker your claims refer to newer trucks and is correct but not true on older diesels. I forgot gauges which are VERY important-EGT mostly!
I'm talking to the OP, and tailoring my responses to him. I don't get the impression that he's going to cobble up a crude at best mounting system for that massive air filter. I don't think he's going to go to the plumbing dept at lowes, break out the sawsall and install that thing. What you do on the farm is your business, and if you like the turbo whine then more power to you :tup: (if you do like turbo whine take out the silencer ring)
It just doesn't fit with the vibes I'm getting from theleo
Post by: Special T on June 09, 2017, 01:19:55 PM
Everything I get from theleo is budget build/Most bang for the buck type stuff.
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Post by: Special T on June 09, 2017, 01:26:30 PM
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Post by: Mudman on June 09, 2017, 01:27:42 PM
A fool and his $ part ways. Wonder which way you lean then? You obviously think your a diesel genius but trust me your not. Oh, silencer ring doesn't do squat so your wrong again. If you like I can post pics of my presumed backwards "Farm sawzall" projects you assume I speak of? Assume- to make an ASS out of U and ME! I don't take your presumptious rude comment lightly and its not appreciated so heres your sign :iamwithstupid: Oh that's from my Farm Buddy Jeff Foxworthy and Rodney. Man this is fun. http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1002dp-1994-to-1998-dodge-ram-power-recipes/Wow. Big air filter last longer. Filters better. Plenty or air if needed. Way cheaper then fancy kits, so ya its a great mod. Stock exhaust is crap and does improve things. $300 kit easy to bolt on. KF did you read my truck trend link I posted for him? You need to. Baker your claims refer to newer trucks and is correct but not true on older diesels. I forgot gauges which are VERY important-EGT mostly!
I'm talking to the OP, and tailoring my responses to him. I don't get the impression that he's going to cobble up a crude at best mounting system for that massive air filter. I don't think he's going to go to the plumbing dept at lowes, break out the sawsall and install that thing. What you do on the farm is your business, and if you like the turbo whine then more power to you :tup: (if you do like turbo whine take out the silencer ring)
It just doesn't fit with the vibes I'm getting from theleo
Post by: KFhunter on June 09, 2017, 01:34:57 PM
I can show you a real nice BHAF build involving a soup pot, rain gutter and pop rivet gun
I think I'm running S&B on mine, I like it because it installs easy, looks fatory'ish, and it has a pre-filter keeping the dust and junk out of the air filter itself.
Post by: baker5150 on June 09, 2017, 01:45:27 PM
Wow. Big air filter last longer. Filters better. Plenty or air if needed. Way cheaper then fancy kits, so ya its a great mod. Stock exhaust is crap and does improve things. $300 kit easy to bolt on. KF did you read my truck trend link I posted for him? You need to. Baker your claims refer to newer trucks and is correct but not true on older diesels. I forgot gauges which are VERY important-EGT mostly!
Yes, newer trucks are more prone to dusting cylinders, BUT, even older rigs can see premature turbo failure and scoring from faulty filters.
If it were me I just wouldn't take the risk. Turbos aren't cheap, and the benefit just isn't there.
It's no wonder you see K&N filters on sale at all the Diesel performance sites. No one buys them.
Post by: Mudman on June 09, 2017, 01:59:57 PM
Post by: KFhunter on June 09, 2017, 02:12:16 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Excelsteel-Quart-Stainless-Stockpot-Encapsulated/dp/B0030T1KR0
You're right, this is fun :chuckle:
Post by: Mudman on June 09, 2017, 02:19:24 PM
Post by: KFhunter on June 09, 2017, 02:36:41 PM
Post by: dyhardhuntr on June 09, 2017, 05:19:39 PM
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Post by: theleo on June 19, 2017, 08:33:20 AM
I appreciate all the advice you guys have given me. Looks like the first steps will be getting the KDP dealt with, adding gauges, and switching out the exhaust when funds and timing allows. It has an intercooler so I'll skip that step and go on to injectors and probably leave it at that.