Post by: bowtech721 on February 24, 2009, 11:15:29 AM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 24, 2009, 11:19:52 AM
Post by: mossback91 on February 24, 2009, 11:38:38 AM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on February 24, 2009, 11:39:25 AM
Post by: gasman on February 24, 2009, 11:43:22 AM
Could i hit my mark, probably, but i will not chance it. Let it go, or get a little closer if I can. I have eatin a few tags for this reason.
Then i question my own ability and remember my ethics, and sob in my beer at camp at night.
Bottom line:
If you practice long shot and feel comfortable making the shot, got for it. If not, do not take the risk.
Post by: Gobble Gobble on February 24, 2009, 11:50:00 AM
Post by: Intruder on February 24, 2009, 11:52:33 AM
One of the best elk hunters I know (also someone who I respect greatly) has been bow hunting elk for over 20 years. He's killed dozens of elk. While he'll be the first to admit he's not a great archer, he knows the consequences of shooting beyond his limits, the conditional limits, etc. His rule of thumb in no more than 25 yards.
Post by: mossback91 on February 24, 2009, 11:56:41 AM
To each his own. For the two that just started are you shooting field points at that 60 yard plate or broadheads? A broadhead will fly differently than a field point.
both........my broadheads and field points seem to hit the same pretty much
Post by: mossback91 on February 24, 2009, 11:59:20 AM
Post by: Gobble Gobble on February 24, 2009, 12:08:33 PM
Post by: @RCHER on February 24, 2009, 12:31:38 PM
Aside from the possibility of messing up a shot increasing greatly as the range increases, we simply cannot control what the animal or mother nature will do to the arrow in that endless amount of time it seems to take an arrow to cover that much ground. From jumping strings, or flinching, to simply taking a step or scratching an itch. How about that little gust of wind or that little twig you didn't see at 50 yards. So many of these basic issues, on top of any ethical or hunting style requirements we have as individuals.
I've told this before, but it fits. I shot a blacktail buck several years ago that was dead broadside and feeding at 35 yards. I was shooting my old Browning Mirage at 260fps and let one fly. My two boys were crouched right next to me and we all got to see this deer go from broadside to turned straight away from us in the time this arrow was in flight. No kidding. He was just browsing away and just as I released, he must have decided to check out another branch and just pivoted.
The arrow hit right on the point of his left butt cheek. I was shooting NAP Thunderhead 100s at the time. He busted through some huckleberry ahead of him, went up hill and then hooked down and to the left. He slowed and eventually laid down and kicked a few times for about two minutes, then no movement. I wasn't feeling too good and just talked through the situation with my boys. I only waited about 5 minutes and snuck over to where I hit him. There was big blood almost immediately and it continued to where I picked up the buck. Turns out one of the three blades scraped along the underside of the pelvis and severed the left femoral artery.
That's only one example of critters doing any number of Houdini stunts during a bow shot. So, like Mossback91, I like to be close. But I also hate that gut renching feeling of a muffed shot on animals.
Post by: Machias on February 24, 2009, 01:44:15 PM
Post by: sisu on February 24, 2009, 03:33:27 PM
I'm just gonna stay out of these discussions. :bdid:Ditto, because my answer is not what these people want to hear. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: gasman on February 24, 2009, 03:39:48 PM
I'm just gonna stay out of these discussions. :bdid:Ditto, because my answer is not what these people want to hear. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
That is the porpose of this thread, to get everyones opion. Not what others want to hear.
Unless you are going to personaly attack others, but that is not what this about.
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on February 24, 2009, 03:43:02 PM
Post by: mossback91 on February 24, 2009, 03:43:33 PM
I'm just gonna stay out of these discussions. :bdid:Ditto, because my answer is not what these people want to hear. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
That is the porpose of this thread, to get everyones opion. Not what others want to hear.
Unless you are going to personaly attack others, but that is not what this about.
:yeah:
Post by: ELKBURGER on February 24, 2009, 03:54:56 PM
Post by: sportsman002001 on February 24, 2009, 03:57:05 PM
I passed on a nice blacktail 2 years ago. I had drawn the multi-season deer tag and had a nice 4 point 62 yards broad side in a clearcut standing across a little canyon. There was a breeze that morning so I choose not to take the shot. And while sitting there it was going though my head can I perfectly excute this shot and I felt I could not with the breeze that was going through there. So there is my :twocents:
Post by: ELKBURGER on February 24, 2009, 04:08:40 PM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on February 24, 2009, 04:14:07 PM
anyways, all of the long range talk reminded me of this. Don't buy these videos. I wouldn't even recommend watching them unless you want to get pissed off at some guys who are willing to make archers look bad for a little fame. :twocents:
Post by: runningboard on February 24, 2009, 04:38:27 PM
Quote
Most shots are not in the vitals. they get lucky and some die but I wonder how many they never find. They made one comment that didn't make any sense.Saw that in another companies videos. A guy shoots a Mouflon sheep or something like that in texas and hits it in the spine at 80yards and the guys stand around congratulating each other on a "fine shot" and I'm thinking WTF? they also go on a hunt in Northwest territories for sheep and the guy shoots really long, then he tells the guide "that's not the one I was shooting at, I was aiming at the one in the back. I hoped that at that distance the arrow would be coming down at such an angle that it would miss the closer one." The guide looks at him and says "Frigging idiot." his reply was "I might be an idiot but I got him." maybe, but what if something went wrong?
I'm a beginner as far as hunting with sticks and strings and haven't gotten myself to shoot beyond 40 yards. others can but not me.
Post by: Little John on February 24, 2009, 04:53:09 PM
I practice at 80 yds allot, it makes the 40 yarders look easy. I would never. never take that long of a shot. No mater how big the animal.
My longest kill is 34 yds
Post by: bow-n-head on February 24, 2009, 05:24:52 PM
Post by: norsepeak on February 24, 2009, 05:54:06 PM
Post by: andrew_12gauge on February 24, 2009, 06:33:20 PM
Post by: archery288 on February 24, 2009, 09:12:11 PM
To me, archery is a matter of how close you can get, not who can sling the furthest arrow and get lucky once in a while... Just my :twocents:
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 24, 2009, 09:21:21 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 24, 2009, 09:32:25 PM
Quote
I personally dont buy the jump the string,
Are you kidding me??? I'm going to assume you have a couple hunts on DVD. Try slowing them down frame by frame sometime and watch the animal jump before the arrow hits, it happens all the time. The only other excuse for this would be maybe they see the arrow before it hits? Either way they most certainly do jump at times, and its not just coincidence.
Post by: Gutpile on February 24, 2009, 09:39:54 PM
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on February 24, 2009, 09:48:41 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 24, 2009, 09:54:35 PM
QuoteI personally dont buy the jump the string,
Are you kidding me??? I'm going to assume you have a couple hunts on DVD. Try slowing them down frame by frame sometime and watch the animal jump before the arrow hits, it happens all the time. The only other excuse for this would be maybe they see the arrow before it hits? Either way they most certainly do jump at times, and its not just coincidence.
of course they do, Im not buying the assumption everyone seems to have that they all do ALL the time..... with as quiet as todays bows are it doesnt happen as often as people make it out to be, and again personally I have never had a issue with it, you can always argue the "what ifs" of anyting, but I still think the FARTHER away the less likely that will happen, can you hear someone shoot a new hoyt or matthews from 45yrds? no.. let alone 60-80.. I have also seen deer jump the string at 15 yrds, so then is that to far also?
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 24, 2009, 09:55:34 PM
I will bite. Last year I was practicing out to 80 yards with field points, and was getting groups into a 10 inch circle at that range, consistantly. Mind you that's with no wind, no caffeine, non-moving target, and no adrenaline. That said, I have passed on bulls at 50 yards because I felt too much could go wrong. Broadheads do strange things at distance, and for that reason and respect of the animal, I try to get close. Last think anyone wants is a wounded, lost elk. Course who am I to talk, I missed one at 13 yards.....
What strange things do they do? if tuned right they fly as good or better then field points
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 24, 2009, 09:56:17 PM
I am not going to get in the middle of this thread but I do have one thing to say...
To me, archery is a matter of how close you can get, not who can sling the furthest arrow and get lucky once in a while... Just my :twocents:
I also agree 100% Jon, but you and I both know sometimes you cant get super close
Post by: huntnphool on February 24, 2009, 09:59:12 PM
Quote
I have also seen deer jump the string at 15 yrds,
Well then dont say
Quote
I personally dont buy the jump the string,
You about gave me a heart attack ;)
Post by: huntnphool on February 24, 2009, 10:00:34 PM
Quote
Im not buying the assumption everyone seems to have that they all do ALL the time.
Not everyone, but it does happen at times :twocents:
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 24, 2009, 10:06:12 PM
Post by: Aneoakleaf on February 24, 2009, 10:29:50 PM
Post by: Ray on February 24, 2009, 11:47:57 PM
You're likely irresponsible if you are taking shots over 50 yards on animals with any bow. Penetration will not be as deep. Animals move. Wind and environmental impacts (rain snow whatever) are likely or possible. At best you are probably not stalking close enough and should consider hunting with a rifle or passing on the shot instead if you cannot get closer.
Post by: Slider on February 25, 2009, 07:49:22 AM
Post by: SHANE(WA) on February 25, 2009, 08:18:21 AM
I practice out to 100 yards, my buddy shoots out to 140 for practice for 3d shoots, not that I will ever shoot that far, its practice makes closer shots easier, I will never hesitate on a calm muley at 60
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2009, 10:14:01 AM
You don't have to agree but I expect childish repsonses and a lack of will to comprehend what is written from folks like you. It's your status quo.
First of all I said "likely".
Second of all not all bows are modern. You have assumed people are all using some compound bow bought off the shelf in the last 5 years or something like that.
Third - Penetration and accuracy are factors when you use a bow made out of a stick. So once again you are not thinking farther than your own bow.
To me it seems you are looking for a reason to start trash talking instead of accepting someone else's opinion for what it is. Maybe because I have deleted many of your personal attacks in the past and you are still upset. I stand by what I said. You don't have to agree as I have said before. People asked for the opinion and for the user not to attack. I delivered and you want to become insulted or feel at odds with my opinion to a great degree because you might feel like some authority on bow hunting. Fine by me. I make no claim and am not attacking your credibility in that sense. I am just some dude and I shoot bows. Opinions are like a**holes. Everyone's got one but they should not necessarily be ridiculed for sharing it openly when someone is soliciting it publicly.
I still think most shots past 50 with a compound are probably a bad idea. Consider the gun instead or passing on the shot. The problem is that people who can shoot with the modern bows see their bows like rifles. Shoot as far as they think they can.. instead of using constraint , good judgement and waiting for a better shot most of the time.
So that is who I am to say. Now run along.
Post by: cohoho on February 25, 2009, 10:32:31 AM
Now run along.
That is the quote of the year! :chuckle:
Post by: mossback91 on February 25, 2009, 10:35:55 AM
Post by: Alan K on February 25, 2009, 10:37:42 AM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 25, 2009, 11:45:24 AM
Shane,
You don't have to agree but I expect childish repsonses and a lack of will to comprehend what is written from folks like you. It's your status quo.
First of all I said "likely".
Second of all not all bows are modern. You have assumed people are all using some compound bow bought off the shelf in the last 5 years or something like that.
Third - Penetration and accuracy are factors when you use a bow made out of a stick. So once again you are not thinking farther than your own bow.
To me it seems you are looking for a reason to start trash talking instead of accepting someone else's opinion for what it is. Maybe because I have deleted many of your personal attacks in the past and you are still upset. I stand by what I said. You don't have to agree as I have said before. People asked for the opinion and for the user not to attack. I delivered and you want to become insulted or feel at odds with my opinion to a great degree because you might feel like some authority on bow hunting. Fine by me. I make no claim and am not attacking your credibility in that sense. I am just some dude and I shoot bows. Opinions are like a**holes. Everyone's got one but they should not necessarily be ridiculed for sharing it openly when someone is soliciting it publicly.
I still think most shots past 50 with a compound are probably a bad idea. Consider the gun instead or passing on the shot. The problem is that people who can shoot with the modern bows see their bows like rifles. Shoot as far as they think they can.. instead of using constraint , good judgement and waiting for a better shot most of the time.
So that is who I am to say. Now run along.
That is opinion and thats fine, you also think that a compound bow is not "bowhunting" so lets not get started there, you have never taken a shot over 50.. with your weapon of choice that certainly would be a BAD chioce and the penetration would be non exsistent IF and thats a HUGE if you hit your target.. now take my Hoyt Alphamax 35 for example, set up at 65lbs, shooting a 417 gr arrow at 280 fps with over 60 fpke...... as previously stated my other hoyt made short work of a mule deer doe at 55yrds through BOTH front shoulders and out the other side at least 6 ft.. I dont think penetration was a issue.. your not a bad bowhunter if 50-60 is as close as you can get in open terrain on mule deer.... I have stalked from 400+yrds to 55 and killed deer.. thats hunting I dont care what weapon you use.. that last 20yrds does not make you or anyone a better hunter then someone who knows 50 is close enough for them in that situation.. its all a matter of chioce and skill... I also agree that me taking a shot at 60-80 is 10x more ethical then alot of "bowhunters" shooting at game at 30yrds.... Ive seen it in the woods, im sure most of you has as well.. way to many people do not hone their skills with a bow even close enough to ethically harvest game... hitting a pie plate most of the time doesnt cut it..
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2009, 11:47:42 AM
Please reference where I state that bowhunting with a compound is not bowhunting. You won't find that. You've created a fabrication. Some people call that a lie or misconception if they want to be friendly. You can do so in a private message so that we can stick back to the topic of opinions on long shots instead of long range computer attacks against credibility.
Most of your discussion is a personal approach to hunting tools and not related to my part of the response here and it is evident you want to perpetuate some other topic about compound bows and me being against them or somethig similar on this discussion. You've muddied the topic.
It's comical that you openly said lets not get started there and then later on in the same paragraph you bring it up again.
Post by: lostcat on February 25, 2009, 12:06:26 PM
That's My :twocents:
O and what do I think is to far 50 is to far and that is even stretching it.
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 25, 2009, 12:21:17 PM
Post by: Machias on February 25, 2009, 12:53:40 PM
Post by: ELKBURGER on February 25, 2009, 01:57:07 PM
Post by: mossback91 on February 25, 2009, 01:58:58 PM
Please remember who started this thread. A new bowhunter. Someone wondering whats right and whats wrong. As a new bowhunter he needs to understand that it takes years of practice, lots of close encounters and time in the field to gain the neccessary confidence needed to know when to draw and when to release. I know many guys have the experience to shoot long range but our fellow bowhunter shouldnt be encouraged this early. I know its fun to brag about our accomplishments but we need to give him the advice he needs.
I think thats the best post on this thread
Post by: lostcat on February 25, 2009, 03:12:56 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 25, 2009, 03:50:54 PM
"they also shoot year round and put arrows in a baseball at 80 yrds" Would that be a moving baseball? You long range shot advocates just don't get it. It's NOT about your shooting abilities. I have no doubt you can shoot the hell out of a dot, out whatever range you want, but under hunting conditions with live animals it is UNETHICAL, IMNSHO. Makes NO difference if you haven't YET wounded an animal. The animals deserve better. How about at least do me a favor and keep your long range shots to yourself, because your right 98% of bowhunters cannot make those shots in the field and you going on a public forum and advocating those shots just make some guys think it's ok to shoot past their hunting abilities.
I have said numerous times on these types of forums.. YOU NEED TO KNOW YOUR ABILITY and stay within it.. that is as sound advice as one can give IMO.. and this moving animal thing... I really cant see your point.. the what ifs are ALWAYS there..... the animal could move just as easily at 20 yrds but that is a easy and great shot for anyone right? as fast as the arrows can get there this is a mute point IMO, could it happen? sure, it can also happen at 25yrds just as easy.. where do you draw the "what if" line... you have every right to your beliefs as I do to mine, Ill keep harvesting deer and elk when I get a shot I know I can make and that is within my 100% distance at that time of the shot.. whether that is 5 yrds or 85..... for a begineer my best advice would be go to a PRO shop, not sportsmens, get a instructor to go over basic form and how to shoot, then practice your ass off.. some people get serious buck fever, from shooting comps my nerves are pretty calm, even when I had a 300 in idaho bull scream in my face at 20 yrds last sep.. so work on everything, be the best you can be and make sure you are 100% sure you will kill the animal ethically before you ever draw your bow.....
Post by: robb92 on February 25, 2009, 06:27:42 PM
Post by: bowtech721 on February 25, 2009, 06:56:38 PM
Post by: matlockmike on February 25, 2009, 07:27:17 PM
With that being said, I have seen a handful of elk killed at 60 to 70yds. My dad seem to have the knack for making crack shots. His bow was a Pearson and he bought it new in 1987. He hunted with it up to 1999 when he took his last elk at 60yds. It had plenty of power to have a pass through shot.
I took an elk at 60 this year but I wish I wouldn't have taken the shot. It hit a limb I couldn't see and a good shot went bad. Tracked her for 3 miles in the snow and recovered her, if not for the snow I would have lost her.
At 60yds in the wood you really can't see all the varables. Wide open county it might be ok, but where I've been hunting it isn't a shot I will take. 40yds will be stretching it for me.
My :twocents:
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on February 25, 2009, 09:05:36 PM
Post by: Ironhead on February 26, 2009, 05:21:45 AM
That happens to everyone, I had a shot at a doe at 30yrds once, I swear nothing was in the way.. I shot and about 10ft before her it hit a limb and went in the ground at her feet. The length of the shot should be determined by the area as well... deep timber and westside elk country, unless your in a clearcut your not getting a 60yd+ shot, east side however, that is a diff story... My shots of that distance have all been in open terrain with no twigs or branches to hit... thats safe IMO.....
Unless you are 80 yards away and can't see the branch.
Nobody is doubting your ability, archery is seeing how accurate you are at shooting dots to long distances. Archery hunting is seeing how close you can get before you take the shot.