Post by: HDR on June 16, 2017, 06:55:52 PM
I have a Kimber 84M in 7mm08. Would like to re-barrel it to a 6.5-284. A gunsmith told me the 6.5 was to long to fit in the Kimber magazine. Here the problem that I do not understand. All my reloading books say the 7mm08 over all length is 2.800".
The Hornady tenth addition book says the 6.5-284 is also 2.800"
Nosler is 3.310"
Berger is 3.2283"
I do want to use the Hornady 143 gr. ELD-X. I called Hornady to see if their 2.800" was a misprint but he said it was correct.
So will it work or not? Thanks for any help.
Post by: hogslayer on June 16, 2017, 07:19:15 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 16, 2017, 08:22:22 PM
Call Schneider barrels, his 6.5 barrels are incredable. I had one that would average 5 shots at a 1011 yards at 7 1/2" and the same barrel would group 95gr V-Max's at 2 1/2" @ 600 yards.
Post by: savagehunter on June 16, 2017, 10:42:36 PM
Post by: HDR on June 17, 2017, 07:54:11 AM
Post by: opdinkslayer on June 17, 2017, 08:03:10 AM
Post by: Bill W on June 17, 2017, 08:08:22 AM
Post by: jdb on June 17, 2017, 08:24:33 AM
Post by: HDR on June 17, 2017, 09:06:22 AM
Post by: b23 on June 17, 2017, 09:13:51 AM
We've all kind of gotten into to this stretching the C.O.A.L. out as far as possible to get maximum use of case capacity but surprisingly it doesn't yield a great deal more velocity. I remember a few years back Kirby Allen did a test on different OAL's and found that the ones stretched out as far as he could go versus the same cartridge with a shorter throat and OAL yielded minimal difference in velocity. I've run the numbers through QuickLoad and when you use the same pressures, QL confirms what Kirby got with his testing.
Post by: HDR on June 17, 2017, 10:28:13 AM
Post by: savagehunter on June 17, 2017, 10:55:20 AM
Post by: b23 on June 17, 2017, 11:14:57 AM
I've looked at a Montana Rifle Company's Extreme X2 in 6.5-284. It is a short action. And they recommend using factory ammo. How will it work in there short action but not mine. The gunsmith I talk to only said it would not work because the 6.5-284 would not fit in the Kimber mag well. And would not feed properly. Thats were I'm getting confused.
You can absolutely use a short action for a 6.5-284 build. Maybe your gunsmith already has a reamer and the specs for his particular reamer are setup for using it with a long action build and in that case it wouldn't work very well in your action.
In a short action, especially if you plan to shoot the 140's, you'll have to seat the bullet deeper in the case in order to feed it through the magazine and doing so will likely yield a little slower velocities but it's certainly not going to be a huge difference.
I'm a big fan of the 6-284 and 6.5-284, probably why I have one of each. ;)
Post by: slm9s on June 17, 2017, 04:22:16 PM
I've looked at a Montana Rifle Company's Extreme X2 in 6.5-284. It is a short action. And they recommend using factory ammo. How will it work in there short action but not mine. The gunsmith I talk to only said it would not work because the 6.5-284 would not fit in the Kimber mag well. And would not feed properly. Thats were I'm getting confused.
IIRC the 6.5x284 has a fatter body with a rebated case rim. Perhaps thats why he thinks it will not work/feed?
You absolutely CAN build one on a SA, its just that you'll be a touch handicapped as the other fellas have said. If you use a 140 and find a powder the rifle likes that leaves room for that long bullet seated deep, it might work out great.
Post by: HDR on June 17, 2017, 06:33:08 PM
Post by: tlake on June 17, 2017, 07:31:39 PM
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/6-5x284-norma-vs-6-5x284-win-101370/
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on June 17, 2017, 08:59:05 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 18, 2017, 08:02:28 AM
Thanks for all the info. Maybe i'll just by a Montana Rifle Company someday. Have to research them a bit. Could sell the Kimber 7mm08 and pickup a Montana in 6.5 creedmoor. Just board lookin for a new toy.
Great post to read first thing today. Ditch that 7-08 and get a Creedmoor!
Post by: fremont on June 18, 2017, 09:19:35 AM
Keep the Kimber 7-08 and go buy a 6.5 creedmoor or 6.5x284 in a rifle that fits the budget.^^^^^
Post by: b23 on June 18, 2017, 10:00:17 AM
Thanks for all the info. Maybe i'll just by a Montana Rifle Company someday. Have to research them a bit. Could sell the Kimber 7mm08 and pickup a Montana in 6.5 creedmoor. Just board lookin for a new toy.
Great post to read first thing today. Ditch that 7-08 and get a Creedmoor!
With Lapua making brass for the Creedmoor now, this would IMO be your best option and when it's all said and done, loading to normal pressures, there'd only be about 50-100 fps difference between the 6.5 Creed, a 6.5-284 seated to 2.800 w/140's and the 6.5-284 seated out long w/140's.
And just to muddy the water a little more, lol, if you really wanted a fast shooting 6.5 on a short action to shoot the heavies, you could go with a 6.5 WSM but that would require a different bolt face. Easy peasy if this was a SA Rem 700 but maybe not so much being that it's a Kimber.
Also, don't get stuck on only one bullet. I haven't run the numbers so I don't know myself but I know a few guys that are Rem 260 shooters that are switching over to shooting the 130 Bergers because they can't drive the 140's fast enough to make the 140's out perform the 130's at distance.
Now you probably have more to think about than you ever wanted to know. :yike:
Post by: yorketransport on June 18, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
If your really looking for the ultimate 6.5 creedmore, you could sell that kimber, buy a savage model 10, you'll still have enough money left over to pick up a vortex scope with that combination you'll me good on anything up to and including wildabeast out to at least a grand maybe further if you turn your hat back words before you shoot.
That's awesome! :chuckle:
Even if you run a 6.5x284 at a 2.800" OAL you'll beat the 260, 6.5x47 Lapua and Creedmoor in an apples to apples comparison. The 6.5x284 case is substantially larger than the others and there's no replacement for case capacity. My straight 284 cases (I use necked up Lapua 6.5x284 brass) hold 66.2gr of water so I'd assume that the 6.5 would be right at 66.0gr. The Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor case I have on hand holds 53.6 and a 6.5x47 Lapua holds 48.3gr. While you can get some very impressive results from the smaller cases with the right powder combinations, you can do the same thing with the larger cases. You just have to find the perfect burn rate to match the case capacity. That's why the little 6 Dasher and BRX cases can come so close to matching the 243 Win.
The obvious answer here though is to just go with a 260. Then you can just neck down the 7mm-08 brass that you have. :twocents:
Post by: b23 on June 18, 2017, 10:19:21 AM
That's awesome! :chuckle:
Even if you run a 6.5x284 at a 2.800" OAL you'll beat the 260, 6.5x47 Lapua and Creedmoor in an apples to apples comparison. The 6.5x284 case is substantially larger than the others and there's no replacement for case capacity. My straight 284 cases (I use necked up Lapua 6.5x284 brass) hold 66.2gr of water so I'd assume that the 6.5 would be right at 66.0gr. The Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor case I have on hand holds 53.6 and a 6.5x47 Lapua holds 48.3gr. While you can get some very impressive results from the smaller cases with the right powder combinations, you can do the same thing with the larger cases. You just have to find the perfect burn rate to match the case capacity. That's why the little 6 Dasher and BRX cases can come so close to matching the 243 Win.
The obvious answer here though is to just go with a 260. Then you can just neck down the 7mm-08 brass that you have. :twocents:
Now who would have thought the voice of reason would have come from the guy who shoots a big huge case in a little short barreled pistol but, winner winner chicken dinner, Yorke is the winner for giving the most reasonable and cost effective answer so far. :tup:
I actually feel rather silly because I completely overlooked that. That's some good thinkin lincoln!!!
Post by: yorketransport on June 18, 2017, 10:28:40 AM
Now who would have thought the voice of reason would have come from the guy who shoots a big huge case in a little short barreled pistol but, winner winner chicken dinner, Yorke is the winner for giving the most reasonable and cost effective answer so far. :tup:
I actually feel rather silly because I completely overlooked that. That's some good thinkin lincoln!!!
I'm full of good advise, I just don't follow it. :chuckle: I'm also notoriously cheap and I'll come up with any way I can to avoid buying new components.
Post by: b23 on June 18, 2017, 10:36:45 AM
Now who would have thought the voice of reason would have come from the guy who shoots a big huge case in a little short barreled pistol but, winner winner chicken dinner, Yorke is the winner for giving the most reasonable and cost effective answer so far. :tup:
I actually feel rather silly because I completely overlooked that. That's some good thinkin lincoln!!!
I'm full of good advise, I just don't follow it. :chuckle: I'm also notoriously cheap and I'll come up with any way I can to avoid buying new components.
Errrrch!!! Hold on a minute, cheap and blowing 150gr of powder out a pistol length barrel does not seem to compute to me. lol
Frugal I'll buy but cheap, not so much. :chuckle:
Post by: yorketransport on June 18, 2017, 02:38:08 PM
Now who would have thought the voice of reason would have come from the guy who shoots a big huge case in a little short barreled pistol but, winner winner chicken dinner, Yorke is the winner for giving the most reasonable and cost effective answer so far. :tup:
I actually feel rather silly because I completely overlooked that. That's some good thinkin lincoln!!!
I'm full of good advise, I just don't follow it. :chuckle: I'm also notoriously cheap and I'll come up with any way I can to avoid buying new components.
Errrrch!!! Hold on a minute, cheap and blowing 150gr of powder out a pistol length barrel does not seem to compute to me. lol
Frugal I'll buy but cheap, not so much. :chuckle:
It's the bullets that make me cringe more than the powder. When 300gr OTMs are the cheap plinking bullet and the target bullets are about $1.75 each, the .60 cents for the powder seems cheap. Don't forget to factor in about .50 cents worth of barrel life every shot too! :o
It makes me appreciate little rounds like the Creedmoor a bit more.
Post by: b23 on June 18, 2017, 07:38:37 PM
Now who would have thought the voice of reason would have come from the guy who shoots a big huge case in a little short barreled pistol but, winner winner chicken dinner, Yorke is the winner for giving the most reasonable and cost effective answer so far. :tup:
I actually feel rather silly because I completely overlooked that. That's some good thinkin lincoln!!!
I'm full of good advise, I just don't follow it. :chuckle: I'm also notoriously cheap and I'll come up with any way I can to avoid buying new components.
Errrrch!!! Hold on a minute, cheap and blowing 150gr of powder out a pistol length barrel does not seem to compute to me. lol
Frugal I'll buy but cheap, not so much. :chuckle:
It's the bullets that make me cringe more than the powder. When 300gr OTMs are the cheap plinking bullet and the target bullets are about $1.75 each, the .60 cents for the powder seems cheap. Don't forget to factor in about .50 cents worth of barrel life every shot too! :o
It makes me appreciate little rounds like the Creedmoor a bit more.
I didn't realize the necked down 408's were so hard on barrels until I talked to a friend of mine that had one of Kirby's 338 Allen Mags, yeah, he had to re-barrel it after 600 rounds. :yike:
Post by: theleo on June 19, 2017, 11:02:54 AM
Post by: b23 on June 19, 2017, 02:00:40 PM
For what you're looking to achieve you might consider doing a 6.5 SAUM. The bolt face would need to be opened up but it's a 6.5 wildcat meant for a short action magazine fed rifle.
I like the idea of a 6.5 WSM or SAUM in a SA but I'm not very familiar with the extractor setup on a Kimber so it may not even be a possibility.
Post by: hogslayer on June 21, 2017, 09:20:34 PM