Post by: Dave Workman on August 31, 2017, 10:03:13 AM
https://www.facebook.com/rich.landers/posts/10212775154127499?comment_id=10212776033429481&reply_comment_id=10212776172312953¬if_t=feed_comment_reply¬if_id=1504197897488220
Share your views.
And GOOD LUCK out there this season! :tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: Henrydog on August 31, 2017, 10:11:20 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 31, 2017, 10:46:10 AM
I have been a grouse hunter for at least 32 years, and worked as a professional game manager and wildlife biologist for the states of Wyoming and Washington for 14 years before switching professions. Grouse do have lower productivity and are longer lived than many other game birds. Adult hens are important to the productivity of grouse populations, much of which was learned from sage grouse and inferred to other grouse species. I was a proponent of moving the Wyoming sage grouse hunting season to 9/15 from 9/1 in order to maintain opportunity while reducing the impact on adult hens. Juvenile or hatch year grouse have high annual mortality and hunting harvest of these birds is largely compensatory, having little impact on the breeding population the following year.
In high quality forest grouse habitat, which is fairly abundant in Washington but has declined for myriad factors, grouse populations are robust to hunting pressure. It is not surprising or an indictment of hunting that statewide grouse harvest shows a downward trend – it is an indication of the amount and quality of habitat.
I appreciate all grouse hunters, whether the deer hunter who shoots the head off a grouse with a .30-06, to the upland shotgunner behind a pointing dog, to the retired guys who buy a bear tag because it is the cheapest license that will allow them to drive around, *censored* and look for birds along the roads. One of my proudest limits was made while elk hunting in Wyoming, when I took an adult male blue grouse in the morning, and two hatch year ruffeds in the afternoon – all with rocks. On another memorable occasion, my partners and I took 27 blue and ruffed grouse – nearly all hatch year birds in a boom year – with .22 pistols while scouting for moose.
Much of our best habitat exists behind road closures on National Forest land and state wildlife areas. If the data show excessive harvest of adult hens, I have no problems with moving the opener later – but I’d like to see some scientific evidence first demonstrating it is necessary for the conservation of forest grouse populations.
What I would really like to see, is an education campaign encouraging grouse hunters to select hatch year birds and let the adult hen go. My friends and I have practiced this for years, primarily while hunting with .22 pistols or when broods are seen on the ground. The hatch year males are often bigger than the females, and hatch year birds are superior eating compared to adults of both sexes. Hunters with whom I’ve discussed this are invariably unaware of the benefits of letting the adult hen go. Unfortunately, the most “sporting” hunting method – shooting grouse on the wing, allows the least selectivity for hatch year birds. Something to think about before emulating the snobbery of method best left to fly fishing only purists.
Post by: AspenBud on August 31, 2017, 11:24:51 PM
The Ruffed Grouse Society can speak volumes to this.
Post by: T-Bone on September 01, 2017, 06:27:47 AM
If you want to save grouse and increase their numbers you need to do something about their habitat. Shortening the season and changing the firearms used to take them is just a bandaid that doesn't solve the problem.
The Ruffed Grouse Society can speak volumes to this.
Totally agree!
WDFW does nothing to work with the USFS, DNR and private timber companies (that allow public hunting) to enhance habitat for forest grouse.
Post by: jackmaster on September 01, 2017, 06:58:56 AM
Post by: Luna butte on September 01, 2017, 07:47:21 AM
Personally, I'd like to see the rifle option expanded to include fall turkey's.
Post by: Hilltop123 on September 01, 2017, 07:49:53 AM
Post by: nwwanderer on September 01, 2017, 07:56:31 AM
Post by: kirkl on September 01, 2017, 11:11:52 AM
Post by: 4T on September 01, 2017, 12:46:02 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 01, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
Post by: kirkl on September 01, 2017, 02:00:59 PM
Post by: wildweeds on September 05, 2017, 05:35:15 PM
Post by: Smokepole on September 05, 2017, 06:50:38 PM
Grouse numbers in my area do seem to be good this year. Must have been a great spring. But...
I have observed turkeys taking a toll on grouse habitat. Turkeys require a lot of food, and come through our area in droves -- picking bugs, snowberries... and just about everything available. They even will eat grouse eggs from the nest. They come by the dozen and do a complete job of gleaning available food, then move on.
The young roughed grouse I observed this summer were pretty skinny. Easy prey for a coyote or wolf. I am surprised the WDFW hasn't addressed it, since turkeys are not native to Washington State. :twocents:
Post by: Wacenturion on September 05, 2017, 08:33:21 PM
Post by: 4T on September 05, 2017, 08:34:41 PM
Post by: wildweeds on September 06, 2017, 09:18:39 AM
Post by: Pegasus on September 06, 2017, 09:45:17 AM
Post by: T-Bone on September 06, 2017, 05:09:47 PM
Would it work here?...You bet!...Will it ever happen?...Highly unlikely. :twocents:
Even with having grouse and public land grouse habitat that any New England grouse hunter would dream about; grouse indeed are a low WDFW priority with the majority of WA upland hunters in a "Ditch Chicken Or Nothing" state of mind. The Pheasant Release Program and its cost/loss of $$$ is a major example. A major re-education of the upland bird hunting public with a program like Michigan's GEMS for obvious opportunity would have to be installed and well...That's unlikely to happen, folks.
Post by: Curly on September 06, 2017, 05:22:49 PM
Just my two cents. But I believe for the westside, aerial spraying, of 2,4-D has done more damage to grouse populations, than any other factor. I know private timber companies do it, not sure of DNR or the USFS. And private timber company land is where I draw this conclusion from. Having been raised hunting on Pope & Talbot land, I have personally seen the grouse populations plummet. Which just so happens to coincide with aerial spraying, that started heavily in the 70's. But what do I know... like I stated, it just my :twocents:
I agree. Too many chemicals are sprayed, ruining much grouse habitat.
Post by: grundy53 on September 06, 2017, 06:03:44 PM
Agreed. The grouse population in my main stomping grounds has been doing poorly for awhile and you can't blame it on turkeys because there aren't any. Although, it has been a good grouse year.Just my two cents. But I believe for the westside, aerial spraying, of 2,4-D has done more damage to grouse populations, than any other factor. I know private timber companies do it, not sure of DNR or the USFS. And private timber company land is where I draw this conclusion from. Having been raised hunting on Pope & Talbot land, I have personally seen the grouse populations plummet. Which just so happens to coincide with aerial spraying, that started heavily in the 70's. But what do I know... like I stated, it just my :twocents:
I agree. Too many chemicals are sprayed, ruining much grouse habitat.
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Post by: KFhunter on September 06, 2017, 06:12:21 PM
Seriously, the turkeys have had a stellar year pumping out chicks, there's still little ones running around from a 3rd 4th? hatch. Grouse are doing very well too, and the quail :yike: they exploded