Post by: Mallardmasher on September 10, 2017, 08:59:10 AM
My request was as follows:
Dear (name of recipients)
I would like to ask the WDFW and Commission, to consider moving the start of early Muzzle Loading Elk season statewide. To start the Saturday closest to Oct 1st, and run 9 consecutive days. This would accomplish a few things and avoid conflicts as listed below.
1. It would give ML elk hunters two weekends to enjoy their passion, like both other user groups.
2. It would put 5 weekdays between the end of ML elk season and the start of general deer season.
- Currently ML elk season has to end on a Friday, to accommodate the start of general Deer season the following Saturday. Resulting in just one weekend and only 7 days of elk hunting for early ML elk season.
3. Days afield could be shifted from late season to early season, so our total number of days afield remain in the states framework. This would only be a two day shift.
Thank you for your time and consideration in the upcoming season setting process.
Sincerely,
(Name here)
We can make a difference, if we make some noise, or we can settle for status quo. Archers are very vocal and represented at the meetings, and get seasons reflecting their desires. Let's make things happen. You can copy and paste my letter or make your own, but please, we need to do something,
Also copy and paste this on all ML forums you visit, I am only a member here.
Thanks,
Matt
Post by: cem3434 on September 10, 2017, 11:00:52 AM
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 10, 2017, 11:11:18 AM
Post by: SuperX on September 10, 2017, 02:04:19 PM
Post by: winshooter88 on September 10, 2017, 03:47:07 PM
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 10, 2017, 05:52:17 PM
Post by: brutus1 on September 19, 2017, 04:48:37 PM
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 19, 2017, 09:52:25 PM
But I only know a handful of ML hunters, so feel free to copy and paste mine and send with your details. And everyone pass out to all their friends. Numbers matter.
Post by: brutus1 on September 20, 2017, 09:13:18 AM
Post by: boneill on September 20, 2017, 03:18:40 PM
Post by: winshooter88 on September 20, 2017, 03:32:58 PM
Post by: boneill on September 20, 2017, 04:40:50 PM
Send it to the Washington state Wildlife Commission and to Anis Auode (not sure of spelling), the head of the wildlife division at least, and anyone else you can think of.
Done!
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 20, 2017, 06:40:09 PM
Thank,
Matt
Post by: floatinghat on September 20, 2017, 07:18:12 PM
If it's a longer season you want why not just nail the dates make it 8 days. Say Oct 3rd every year Monday or a Sunday whatever day of the week it doesn't mater some years two weekend days some 3 weekend days?
I would be more infavor of opening some addtional units during early and late season than extending the early season. Perhaps have some unit open during early that are not open to archery so the critters are undisturbed. The units that only have an elk or 2 taken every year shouldn't really count as opportunity (407,448,624,633,663).
Maybe a little of a rant but it's called hunting and should have some challenge. I would have no issue for extended dates for disabled vets.
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 20, 2017, 07:31:38 PM
Post by: Antlershed on September 20, 2017, 09:01:53 PM
I'd rather see it be the first week of October, regardless of the days of the week.
Post by: buglebrush on September 20, 2017, 10:29:53 PM
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 20, 2017, 11:14:16 PM
Post by: Antlershed on September 21, 2017, 07:29:31 AM
An archery elk season that runs until the 24th of September is nowhere near the equivalent of a muzzleloader season that would be the last week of September. Guys are shooting today's muzzleloaders out to 150-200 yards accurately, which is essentially "rifle range" for a lot of guys, hence the slaughter comment.
Also, I'm guessing if it went to an Oct 1st opener every year, you wouldn't get 9 days. As has been mentioned, harvest stats play into the number of days in the field that is given.
And before we get there, I'll caveat my statements with the fact that I have hunted Archery, Muzzy and Rifle, and understand why each user group gets a certain number of days.
Post by: bobcat on September 21, 2017, 08:11:05 AM
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 21, 2017, 08:45:20 AM
I agree with having it start on a Saturday, earlier and getting two weekends, so we do not bump into rifle deer, like this year.
years when it would get early into sept, like mentioned above are also years it could open instead Oct 1st, like last year, and you would still get two weekends with out running into rifle deer. Only a three year program, easy to figure out the three opening Saturday's, without creating a "Slaughter" but still allowing two weekends, but remaining consistent within the states total day frame work.
I would actually bet ML success would dip a little, with shifting two days forward, a big portion is from the late season cow harvest overall
Post by: Antlershed on September 21, 2017, 10:23:30 AM
Post by: floatinghat on September 21, 2017, 11:18:00 AM
While a greater percentage of the late season harvest might be cows the changes are minimal. . GMU 407 changes from Any elk to 3pt or anterless. I would suggest that this is due to many bulls being harvested and others being more reclusive.
I looks to me like your suggestion is taking days that have lower opportunity of success (late season) and moving them to a time when there is a higher opportunity of success (early season). To me this would increase the overall success percentage and potentially lead to the opposite (a shorter season) or cancellation of the late season. The highest harvest days are early in the season and on weekends, how can it not have a negative impact?
I'll agree with keeping some space between elk and modern deer. I understand the start days on a Saturday, not that it makes that process right or wrong. I think starting it mid week would spread out hunters more and reduce the pressure in the woods vs a gold rush mentality.
I will admit to kind of liking the late season. Although the biggest A-Holes I have met hunting were during the late season muzzy.
Anyway, dialog is good because none of us think of everything.
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 21, 2017, 11:26:21 AM
Actually when it goes from Spike to three or or better, they have an above number of mature bulls, making them avail for harvest, when they drop from any bull or three or or better down to spike only, they are needing escapement, so any spike that survives hunting season helps to increase the bull to cow ratio numbers they seek post hunting season.
And when it goes from any bull to 3pt or better they are trying to maintain.
So if an area is struggling it goes to spike only.
Post by: buglebrush on September 25, 2017, 08:09:11 AM
They have it opening on a Saturday because that's what most hunters want. Look at early archery elk season- opens on Saturday. Modern deer season- opens on Saturday. Modern elk season- opens on Saturday. See the pattern? That's not going to change. It's that way due to popular opinion.
I've never met a hunter that likes the saturday opener. In fact everyone I've ever talked to hates it! If you are really a die-hard hunter you'll take the first day off work, especially if it eliminates a little of the outrageous pressure of the saturday opener.
Post by: bobcat on September 25, 2017, 09:07:57 AM
They have it opening on a Saturday because that's what most hunters want. Look at early archery elk season- opens on Saturday. Modern deer season- opens on Saturday. Modern elk season- opens on Saturday. See the pattern? That's not going to change. It's that way due to popular opinion.
I've never met a hunter that likes the saturday opener. In fact everyone I've ever talked to hates it! If you are really a die-hard hunter you'll take the first day off work, especially if it eliminates a little of the outrageous pressure of the saturday opener.
Then the majority of hunters must not be "die hard" hunters. If you look at surveys that the WDFW has done in the past, a large majority of hunters want opening day on Saturday. I agree with you, I prefer to have seasons open mid-week, but that's only because I'm able to get paid days off whenever I choose.
Post by: pd on September 25, 2017, 10:36:17 AM
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 25, 2017, 04:12:51 PM
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on September 25, 2017, 04:31:09 PM
With the new guns like the nw knight disc extreme your hunting with a weapon that is a killing machine that is nowhere near what technology was a few years ago. I like Montana's style where if you want to hunt the rut you have to learn how to shoot a bow and get close. Muzzleloader season is set when the elk are very vulnerable and with the new technology you barely have to get inside their senses.
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 25, 2017, 06:53:05 PM
You can not compare our seasons to any other of the PNW states, as they have twice the amount of critters, and we have twice the amount of sportsman. This is why we have to choose our weapon. To limit the overall success rate. No hate, but a good chuckle
Post by: SuperX on September 26, 2017, 11:41:05 AM
Hahaha that is some funny stuff right there. And archery to use to be primitive, now bows are shooting north of 320 fps and a lot of people's range is 80+ yards. I was a competitive Archer and Hoyt shooter for years. I have seen the advances in both, and they are comparable.but even with compound bow and release improvements, you still have to draw the bow while the animal is within range, and can not shoot through even the wispiest of obstruction. Even when you can thread the needle, the arrow can be thwarted by bone or the slightest step or duck. These, to me, are the relevant factors in effectiveness. BTW you could always shoot 80y, the NFAA field round has 80 yard shots 50 years before the invention of the compound bow. Modern archery equipment just means get to shoot accurately with less time spent practicing, and deliver a lot more Kinetic energy.
You can not compare our seasons to any other of the PNW states, as they have twice the amount of critters, and we have twice the amount of sportsman. This is why we have to choose our weapon. To limit the overall success rate. No hate, but a good chuckle
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 26, 2017, 09:47:29 PM
Post by: High Climber on September 26, 2017, 10:02:40 PM
First, a caveat. I fully understand politics, in that my personal opinion will have little bearing on the final outcome. Thus, I won't comment in either direction to your proposals. However, please note that if you succeed in moving the ML season opener to the last Saturday in September, and get a 9-day season, I will switch my tag from archery to ML (but still use my bow). Food for thought for you.That's a fact! I would be right there with ya
Post by: kentrek on September 26, 2017, 10:32:31 PM
It's that way due to popular opinion.
Your correct but if it's set by popular opinion then why is there a wave of threads every year on how the dates suck..... :dunno:
Our seasons shouldn't be set off popular opinion but off the statistics for what a given area needs or needs not to be hunted....lets fight to get some actual science involved in Washington and then maybe we could call our selves conservationists
Post by: bobcat on September 26, 2017, 10:42:10 PM
It's that way due to popular opinion.
Your correct but if it's set by popular opinion then why is there a wave of threads every year on how the dates suck..... :dunno:
Our seasons shouldn't be set off popular opinion but off the statistics for what a given area needs or needs not to be hunted....lets fight to get some actual science involved in Washington and then maybe we could call our selves conservationists
Maybe because people like to complain and often think the grass is always greener on the other side? In my opinion if seasons were to be set according to science, there would be no general seasons at all. All deer and elk hunting by permit only, that's the only way to manage by science. Again, my opinion only.
Post by: winshooter88 on September 27, 2017, 03:04:57 AM
Post by: grundy53 on September 27, 2017, 04:53:24 AM
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Skyvalhunter on September 27, 2017, 05:23:21 AM
Post by: Mallardmasher on September 27, 2017, 05:36:31 AM
For the Archers out there. Did the season yield higher success rates when Archery opened on Or about Oct 1st or what we have now with our current season. It was changed by popular demand
Post by: kentrek on September 27, 2017, 10:31:59 AM
It's that way due to popular opinion.
Your correct but if it's set by popular opinion then why is there a wave of threads every year on how the dates suck..... :dunno:
Our seasons shouldn't be set off popular opinion but off the statistics for what a given area needs or needs not to be hunted....lets fight to get some actual science involved in Washington and then maybe we could call our selves conservationists
Maybe because people like to complain and often think the grass is always greener on the other side? In my opinion if seasons were to be set according to science, there would be no general seasons at all. All deer and elk hunting by permit only, that's the only way to manage by science. Again, my opinion only.
I've spoken against you on that but it really gets down to ones views on what a permit system is....is idaho a permit system ? I view it as a quota system and I believe it's a really good route...
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2017, 12:24:44 PM
It's that way due to popular opinion.
Your correct but if it's set by popular opinion then why is there a wave of threads every year on how the dates suck..... :dunno:
Our seasons shouldn't be set off popular opinion but off the statistics for what a given area needs or needs not to be hunted....lets fight to get some actual science involved in Washington and then maybe we could call our selves conservationists
Maybe because people like to complain and often think the grass is always greener on the other side? In my opinion if seasons were to be set according to science, there would be no general seasons at all. All deer and elk hunting by permit only, that's the only way to manage by science. Again, my opinion only.
I've spoken against you on that but it really gets down to ones views on what a permit system is....is idaho a permit system ? I view it as a quota system and I believe it's a really good route...
Whatever you want to call it as long as the number of tags issued are controlled in some way. We don't have any limit on the number of tags sold or the number of people who hunt each unit. Other than recently, where timber companies are limiting the number of hunters on their lands.
Post by: buglebrush on September 28, 2017, 01:21:07 AM
They have it opening on a Saturday because that's what most hunters want. Look at early archery elk season- opens on Saturday. Modern deer season- opens on Saturday. Modern elk season- opens on Saturday. See the pattern? That's not going to change. It's that way due to popular opinion.
I've never met a hunter that likes the saturday opener. In fact everyone I've ever talked to hates it! If you are really a die-hard hunter you'll take the first day off work, especially if it eliminates a little of the outrageous pressure of the saturday opener.
Then the majority of hunters must not be "die hard" hunters. If you look at surveys that the WDFW has done in the past, a large majority of hunters want opening day on Saturday. I agree with you, I prefer to have seasons open mid-week, but that's only because I'm able to get paid days off whenever I choose.
Oh and WDFW surveys are sure to be accurate... Nothing that agency has done gives me even a shred of trust. :twocents:
Post by: floatinghat on September 29, 2017, 09:10:34 PM
Bring on the hate but, I'd assume see the muzzleloader season eliminated and extend the archery season through where the muzzleloader season was. Muzzleloader used to be primative and hunters couldn't shoot them 150-175 yards and kill elk.
With the new guns like the nw knight disc extreme your hunting with a weapon that is a killing machine that is nowhere near what technology was a few years ago. I like Montana's style where if you want to hunt the rut you have to learn how to shoot a bow and get close. Muzzleloader season is set when the elk are very vulnerable and with the new technology you barely have to get inside their senses.
Think you need to revisit, the old black powder guns shooting big heavy conical where shooting well past your quoted distances. I would have not problem supporting going back to cap locks if you agree archery goes back in time, no compounds, no carbon, no sites etc. So I look forward to seeing longbows, wooden arrows, etc. Look at the harvest percentages, they have been very similar, throw in the additional lost animals from archery.
Post by: Elkcollector82 on September 30, 2017, 09:21:57 AM
they have been very similar, throw in the additional lost animals from archery.
Haha. That's funny. Cause only archery looses animals 🤦♂️