Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 21, 2017, 03:32:55 PM
Should the availability of these permits be continued, or stopped?
You may vote 2 times, PLEASE only 1 for elk, and 1 for deer
Post by: Whitenuckles on October 21, 2017, 03:38:15 PM
Post by: JDHasty on October 21, 2017, 04:01:51 PM
Post by: rougheye on October 21, 2017, 04:22:48 PM
Post by: andr3wxmma on October 21, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
Post by: Mfowl on October 21, 2017, 04:28:46 PM
Post by: bfranklin81 on October 21, 2017, 10:01:53 PM
Post by: fishnfur on October 21, 2017, 10:12:06 PM
I haven't seen an elk since July. It wasn't MS elk hunters that made them scarce, but dang! Where'd they go. The seasons for elk are pretty short. I say keep it the way it is.
Post by: KM1986 on October 22, 2017, 06:51:04 PM
Post by: JDHasty on October 22, 2017, 09:04:59 PM
I don't think the MS deer tag affects Blacktails at all. Their response to more pressure is becoming more invisible.
I haven't seen an elk since July. It wasn't MS elk hunters that made them scarce, but dang! Where'd they go. The seasons for elk are pretty short. I say keep it the way it is.
Very true
Here is something else to chew on: Most locals on two islands I have access on and in south Kitsap haven't been seeing deer numbers they normally do all summer. I took a look in August and was fairly unconcerned, they obviously went nocturnal to get away from the heat.
I checked the steep trails they use very early in the morning to go down and lick salt off the beach before bedding down. They were as cut up by tracks as they always have been. Someday, maybe if the stars align right, I will get hunting access to some of these properties. The rub is they are view properties with sky high prices and the owners are becoming more and more software writer types who just don't allow hunting access. I will take old islanders, hippies and artists any day over the new breed of island residents when it comes to gaining hunting access.
South Kitsap has been the same way this year. The deer there have been nocturnal all summer, but have been back out during the day this week.
Post by: Mallardmasher on October 22, 2017, 09:21:05 PM
The only reason I go in for the multi elk and deer is so I can chase deer with my bow during more season, this year with a muzzy, because of Roto-cuff surgery. But mainly, I put in for Elk, So I can put in for Dayton or other Blues elk tags, if not drawn for multi, I buy a ghost point, so I can hunt western Washington. Up to 27 points, and I will be damned if I can get a multi elk tag, so ghost points just keep adding up. To many to burn on a lesser area. IMO
Post by: PolarBear on October 22, 2017, 10:11:57 PM
Post by: pope on October 23, 2017, 05:21:46 AM
One change I would like to see: require East or West for deer, just like with elk. I hate seeing all of the failed mule deer hunters showing up to hunt land they have never scouted. Last year a guy shot a blacktail buck near where I spend most of my time, and he had absolutely no plan for how to get the animal out of the woods.
While we're discussing seasons, how about a special season for traditional bows? There is an enormous difference between the range of a recurve or longbow and a compound. We distinguish between rifle and black powder, why not two types of archery seasons? I know when this could be done, without upsetting any of the current seasons: November 1st through the 14th.
Post by: trophyhunt on October 23, 2017, 06:20:10 AM
Post by: lewy on October 23, 2017, 06:23:57 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 23, 2017, 06:37:06 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 23, 2017, 07:02:01 AM
WA is unusual in not allowing hunters to participate in multiple weapon seasons. The multi-season tags can help make up for that. With declining hunter numbers, I don't see how MS hurts ungulate numbers. I believe the biggest pressure on ungulate numbers is disease and predators.Predators for sure!! I just spent a week in republic and didn't see a single legal buck, except for in town. I think mule deer season should be shut down for about 5 years and they should pay us for coyote, cougar and bear pelts!!!
Post by: skeeter 20i on October 23, 2017, 07:33:22 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on October 23, 2017, 08:21:26 AM
Like what was said earlier, other states general tags are for all methods and they have longer seasons too. The one thing most have over WA is the ratio of animals/land/hunters. :twocents:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on October 23, 2017, 09:15:04 AM
I also enjoy the extra time in the field, don't f up a good thing. If you don't like it don't buy it
Used to be everyone got the extra time in the field if they wanted it. And at no cost. We'd hunt early archery, switch to modern season, then do late muzzy season or archery again. Then management decided it would be better for the herds to divide hunting up by area and weapon so there wouldn't be so many hunters in the field at one time. Recently the Dept decided to slip hunting multiple weapons back in but at a price. It was pretty limited at first, but they have gradually been expanding it. This was done to have another way to extract money from hunters. By keeping it limited and a draw, they created buzz and want and could charge a pretty hefty fee for the privilege most states allow over the counter for much cheaper if any extra cost. Now that they have a demand built up, they have gradually been increasing the number of multi season tags. Testing the market I'd call it. Seeing how many the can sell at current prices. Since this is for making money, (It certainly isn't for management purposes) they only have three options if they want to make more money. They either increase the price of a multi season tag, or they sell more multi season tags, or both. They are doing it gradually to maximize the money. I suspect if hunter numbers drop, they will raise prices and increase the number of multi season tags to make up for falling revenue. The problem being, by increasing costs (along with the increasing cost to gain access) they are gradually making it too expensive for new hunters to join the ranks so revenue will keep dropping and they will have to keep looking for more money streams. They may eventually go to over the counter for multi season tags. Then we will have a situation where we had something, they took it away and created a market for it, then brought it back at a price.
It's already a push for me to hunt out of State as a non resident or hunt here as a resident. Idaho license and tag for deer? $456.50, muzzy permit $20, archey permit $20 Total..... $496.50. If I want to hunt all seasons but with a modern season that goes from Oct 10-Dec 1, I really don't feel the need to hunt with a bow or Muzzy there. There is lots of public land to hunt. Washington deer? license and tag $44.90, Access fee $250, multi season tag $139.10. Total $434.
So for $62.50 more, if I hunt all weapons or 22.50 more if I don't, I can hunt Idaho with way more game and way more access and longer more flexible seasons, and have a lot more chance at a trophy sized animal if that's what I want. I save on gas hunting there too as I do a lot less driving. Usually pick a spot and set up a camp and hunt the surrounding area. Here I do a lot more driving around. As an added bonus, In Idaho I can drive the roads and some trails on my Quad. I don't even pull it out of the garage when hunting locally here. I sometimes take it with me when I hunt the NE corner in the late season. To be honest, it's more enjoyable hunting in Idaho. Less hunters and pressure. At least where I hunt.
The more I hunt in Idaho, the less money I spend here. And that's the way I'm leaning now.
Post by: PolarBear on October 23, 2017, 09:28:12 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 23, 2017, 09:31:32 AM
Basically, you used to be able to hunt with all methods. The herd supposedly needed managed so they cut this.
Now the herd is 10x worse than it was when they did this change but in the meantime, they came up with a way to charge you to hunt all three methods. Now think about it. there are more multiseason tags than people willing to pay for them.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 23, 2017, 09:34:16 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 23, 2017, 09:39:28 AM
Post by: kselkhunter on October 23, 2017, 09:43:38 AM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on October 23, 2017, 09:44:17 AM
I agree with Sitka at times it seems we are boiling frogs. However I like to have options, and the multi gives us those options. It all depends on your priorities. And priorities can change from year to year. I know of guys who buy multiple private passes a year, plus multi season, and shoot a spike buck and are happy as can be. Other guys may do the same because they want the opportunity to chase big blacktails and we are one of the few states where that is possible. Other guys look at it and think its crazy. Myself, I chose to get a multi last year for permit options, and it payed off. This year I chose to apply my money elsewhere and selected a rifle tag hunting public land keeping my cost as low as possible in state. Putting that money toward out of state tags and additional hunts.
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 23, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on October 23, 2017, 09:47:35 AM
I also enjoy the extra time in the field, don't f up a good thing. If you don't like it don't buy it
Used to be everyone got the extra time in the field if they wanted it. And at no cost. We'd hunt early archery, switch to modern season, then do late muzzy season or archery again. Then management decided it would be better for the herds to divide hunting up by area and weapon so there wouldn't be so many hunters in the field at one time. Recently the Dept decided to slip hunting multiple weapons back in but at a price. It was pretty limited at first, but they have gradually been expanding it. This was done to have another way to extract money from hunters. By keeping it limited and a draw, they created buzz and want and could charge a pretty hefty fee for the privilege most states allow over the counter for much cheaper if any extra cost. Now that they have a demand built up, they have gradually been increasing the number of multi season tags. Testing the market I'd call it. Seeing how many the can sell at current prices. Since this is for making money, (It certainly isn't for management purposes) they only have three options if they want to make more money. They either increase the price of a multi season tag, or they sell more multi season tags, or both. They are doing it gradually to maximize the money. I suspect if hunter numbers drop, they will raise prices and increase the number of multi season tags to make up for falling revenue. The problem being, by increasing costs (along with the increasing cost to gain access) they are gradually making it too expensive for new hunters to join the ranks so revenue will keep dropping and they will have to keep looking for more money streams. They may eventually go to over the counter for multi season tags. Then we will have a situation where we had something, they took it away and created a market for it, then brought it back at a price.
It's already a push for me to hunt out of State as a non resident or hunt here as a resident. Idaho license and tag for deer? $456.50, muzzy permit $20, archey permit $20 Total..... $496.50. If I want to hunt all seasons but with a modern season that goes from Oct 10-Dec 1, I really don't feel the need to hunt with a bow or Muzzy there. There is lots of public land to hunt. Washington deer? license and tag $44.90, Access fee $250, multi season tag $139.10. Total $434.
So for $62.50 more, if I hunt all weapons or 22.50 more if I don't, I can hunt Idaho with way more game and way more access and longer more flexible seasons, and have a lot more chance at a trophy sized animal if that's what I want. I save on gas hunting there too as I do a lot less driving. Usually pick a spot and set up a camp and hunt the surrounding area. Here I do a lot more driving around. As an added bonus, In Idaho I can drive the roads and some trails on my Quad. I don't even pull it out of the garage when hunting locally here. I sometimes take it with me when I hunt the NE corner in the late season. To be honest, it's more enjoyable hunting in Idaho. Less hunters and pressure. At least where I hunt.
The more I hunt in Idaho, the less money I spend here. And that's the way I'm leaning now.
Been hunting here since 1976, and it has not been free to switch between seasons since I started hunting.
True, there was just a deer or elk tag, but it was modern firearm by default. If you wanted to hunt archery or black powder, you had to buy a "bow and arrow permit" or a "muzzleloading rifle permit" which were, in 1977 - $6.00 each, which was $1.00 more than a deer tag....
Post by: NoBark on October 23, 2017, 10:00:44 AM
I understand they need money, but the impact hasn't been good in my opinion. I would dare say the number of Muzzy or Archery guys joining the rifle crowd is a very small percentage of total rifle hunters BUT, flip it and you find a huge increase in Modern tag holders joining the Archery guys for the late hunt. The late season in by far the archers best chance at deer, and the hunter numbers have gone through the rood since the MS tag came into play.
If I could change one thing, it would be to make the MS deer tag valid for the early archery and Modern seasons only and let the people who choose archery have the late season back to themselves. It would give MS tag holders two shots at deer and alleviate the crowding in the late archery seasons. My two cents,.
Post by: Whitenuckles on October 23, 2017, 10:37:45 AM
I skewed the poll and don"t know how to change it. I voted yes, because my reading comprehension skills were rusty this am. I am in favor of keeping the Multi as is. With possible minor tweaks.I screwed up to. I accidentally voted yes, wanted to vote NO!
I agree with Sitka at times it seems we are boiling frogs. However I like to have options, and the multi gives us those options. It all depends on your priorities. And priorities can change from year to year. I know of guys who buy multiple private passes a year, plus multi season, and shoot a spike buck and are happy as can be. Other guys may do the same because they want the opportunity to chase big blacktails and we are one of the few states where that is possible. Other guys look at it and think its crazy. Myself, I chose to get a multi last year for permit options, and it payed off. This year I chose to apply my money elsewhere and selected a rifle tag hunting public land keeping my cost as low as possible in state. Putting that money toward out of state tags and additional hunts.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 23, 2017, 10:52:21 AM
WDFW allows a 'lesser weapon' in the general seasons, they could probably allow lesser weapon tags to apply for special permits--let muzzy apply for mod tags. :dunno:
Post by: JDHasty on October 23, 2017, 11:24:57 AM
I skewed the poll and don"t know how to change it. I voted yes, because my reading comprehension skills were rusty this am. I am in favor of keeping the Multi as is. With possible minor tweaks.I screwed up to. I accidentally voted yes, wanted to vote NO!
I agree with Sitka at times it seems we are boiling frogs. However I like to have options, and the multi gives us those options. It all depends on your priorities. And priorities can change from year to year. I know of guys who buy multiple private passes a year, plus multi season, and shoot a spike buck and are happy as can be. Other guys may do the same because they want the opportunity to chase big blacktails and we are one of the few states where that is possible. Other guys look at it and think its crazy. Myself, I chose to get a multi last year for permit options, and it payed off. This year I chose to apply my money elsewhere and selected a rifle tag hunting public land keeping my cost as low as possible in state. Putting that money toward out of state tags and additional hunts.
I haven't voted. I could not discern what a yes vote stands for and what a no vote stands for given the wording in the ask. I see it has been clarified now.
Post by: boneaddict on October 23, 2017, 11:45:29 AM
Post by: Special T on October 23, 2017, 12:13:42 PM
I've never had a MS but... If you have one so you still take a week off for hunting, provided you did before? Does your hunting become more weekend warrior since you have more weekends to spread it over?
How does the number of days in the feild change?
If most MS hunters only hunt weekends or 3 day ones... is this really that much more pressure?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: boneaddict on October 23, 2017, 01:42:09 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 23, 2017, 02:55:21 PM
Other than the fact they turned it into a money grab instead of a tool that could be used to manage a resource/time in the field etc .....
Basically, you used to be able to hunt with all methods. The herd supposedly needed managed so they cut this.
Now the herd is 10x worse than it was when they did this change but in the meantime, they came up with a way to charge you to hunt all three methods. Now think about it. there are more multiseason tags than people willing to pay for them.
Agreed,
The whole point in this poll is because the Mule deer herds are in bad shape, we mostly all can agree on that.
The most viable, and realistic option that we have at helping the herds is "people control"
Wolves Management=not a chance this will change.
Predator control= Yes cats and yotes need more population control......But lots on here keep referring to bears as having a large impact on deer population. Simply not true, research it. (example in link)
https://wildlife.utah.gov/predators-mule-deer.html
So we went to the Choose your weapon scenario to reduce crowding especially Modern firearm season. Then the legislature told the DFW to go find your own money and the MS tag came our raising money for DFW AND raising the crowding problem as well.
I understand they need money, but the impact hasn't been good in my opinion. I would dare say the number of Muzzy or Archery guys joining the rifle crowd is a very small percentage of total rifle hunters BUT, flip it and you find a huge increase in Modern tag holders joining the Archery guys for the late hunt. The late season in by far the archers best chance at deer, and the hunter numbers have gone through the rood since the MS tag came into play.
If I could change one thing, it would be to make the MS deer tag valid for the early archery and Modern seasons only and let the people who choose archery have the late season back to themselves. It would give MS tag holders two shots at deer and alleviate the crowding in the late archery seasons. My two cents,.
:tup:
I also have seen a huge increase in the amount of archery folks due to the MS.
Even if its a small percentage of "extra" hunters during any given weapon season, its still added pressure on the critters, and there are without a doubt, deer killed every year that would not have been had that particular hunter been restricted to one weapon choice.
If we TRULY want tp help out the herds, we need to take a close look in the mirror, people control is the best way to achieve healthy herds. Eliminating the MS tags would still give all hunters their time/chance to hunt (as opposed to shutting down areas, draw only hunting, odd/even hunting, etc.) Eliminating the MS permits would also help to provide hunters with something we all want......less competition in the field at the same time.
There are better/other ways for WDFW to increase funds. ie; pay an extra fee to be able to apply for a special permit in any category, add 1 or 2 more raffle permits, and have a small cap on them...Limit 10,
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on October 23, 2017, 04:03:41 PM
Been hunting here since 1976, and it has not been free to switch between seasons since I started hunting.
True, there was just a deer or elk tag, but it was modern firearm by default. If you wanted to hunt archery or black powder, you had to buy a "bow and arrow permit" or a "muzzleloading rifle permit" which were, in 1977 - $6.00 each, which was $1.00 more than a deer tag....
I started hunting in 1964 and bow hunting in !970. I don't remember a bow permit being required then, it was long enough ago I may have forgotten. But even as you show a bow permit was required in 1977, it was six bucks. Even better that same bow permit was also good for elk too. Same with black powder permits. It was cheap to hunt all the seasons whatever the case. With the way things are going now in the State's and timberland holder's quest to make more money off of hunting, hunter numbers will continue to dwindle and hunters as a whole will lose more political clout. I'm sorry to see things go this way myself.
Post by: GrampasGuns on October 23, 2017, 06:21:10 PM
This program is bankrupt of any reason, or rhyme.
When the system constantly has 2-3k left over permits each year, and to not just offer a MS without paying the $6 app, is equatable to theft in my opinion.
People who want them wont get drawn, and people who don't care wont buy one.
Pointless.
Post by: Smokepole on October 24, 2017, 12:21:53 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on October 25, 2017, 05:23:10 AM
I believe you should be able to hunt all weapons east and west with the purchase of a simple big game tag.As in my younger days.......Sell them OTC!
Post by: wt on October 26, 2017, 01:51:38 PM
Post by: Smokepole on October 26, 2017, 03:29:02 PM
Post by: archerykraze on October 27, 2017, 07:31:29 AM
Post by: shorthair-on-point on October 27, 2017, 07:50:04 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 27, 2017, 07:53:14 AM
Used to hunt either Archery or Muzzle for the lack of hunter competition. Might see 1 other hunter during archery season and a half dozen during Muzzle. The last two years been a lot more people showing up with MS Tags who are normally modern tag holders. This has pushed the deer into the thicker timber earlier with increased hunting pressure. I do believe we are applying too much pressure on the animals, heck they are already being chased nonstop by the predators the state wont let us properly control. I've changed my early season tactics and still manage to fill my tag, just got to adapt to the greedy state's changes I guess, but I'd like to see the MS Tag go away and maybe replace it with a 1-2 week long spring bear hunt tag that is a separate general season tag which I'm sure most would buy. Good Luck Everyone!
Bingo,
waaay more pressure now during archery/muzzy.