Post by: dan11011 on October 23, 2017, 08:34:21 PM
I had a warden come out and confirm that this was also the work of a cougar. Not sure where to go from here. I plan to buy some more sheep in the Spring, but don't know how I will ever fully protect them as the cougars are abundant and seem to be happy to always jump the fence.
Here's some photos of some of the animals. It sure was a bloodbath that night.
Post by: lokidog on October 23, 2017, 08:57:14 PM
I'm hoping to try to do some cougar hunting this winter, hopefully, I can help someone out.
Post by: Special T on October 23, 2017, 08:57:59 PM
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Post by: dan11011 on October 23, 2017, 09:02:02 PM
Gotta do some predator calling this winter! That and chasing down trax in the snow!
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Never thought about trying to call the cougars on our property. Not a bad idea and what can it hurt.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 24, 2017, 06:25:04 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on October 24, 2017, 07:14:14 AM
I don't know if this would apply to large predators or just for deer & elk damages, but may be worth at least looking into.
May get some compensation for your losses that could be used for additional fence materials or other stuff that may make it safer for your critters.
Just a thought, frustrating as heck to feel like you can't turn your back for even a minute because of something like this happening.
Post by: tlbradford on October 24, 2017, 08:28:00 AM
Post by: Timberstalker on October 24, 2017, 08:58:37 AM
That's terrible. Good luck killing that monster, and rebuilding your flock. :tup:
Post by: rainshadow1 on October 24, 2017, 09:09:46 AM
Calling works, harder than dogs, but it does work!
Post by: Southpole on October 24, 2017, 09:12:25 AM
Have you considered a working dog like a Great Pyrenees or similar? I am sorry for your loss.:yeah: times 2 on the working dog. Sorry for your loss... sickening really :(
Post by: JDHasty on October 24, 2017, 09:25:40 AM
Post by: jbeaumont21 on October 24, 2017, 09:35:12 AM
https://www.mountainlion.org/portalprotectguardanimals.asp
Sorry for your loss!
Post by: dan11011 on October 24, 2017, 10:36:55 AM
We did have property insurance (which was separate from the state) for the sheep and would have recieved $375 a head, but the insurance didn't kick in until two days after the sheep were killed. I kid you not. :bash:
I'm sure we could get permission to run hounds but there are a lot of other ranches and farms around and the last thing I want to do is have dogs running all over peoples properties 2 miles away just for our sake. Not only that, but they might be chasing a different cat.
The point of the llama was to be a guardian animal like a dog would be. We've had 4 llamas over the past 20 years and they all have done a good job and limited livestock loss dramatically. We've had two llamas die of old age and two killed by cougars now. I'm not against getting another one as they do a good job for the most part. We've never lost this many animals in a night while owning a llama so this really came as a surprise.
I think I will try some calling this winter, maybe even download and play some sheep sounds on my electronic call. :dunno:
I haven't had a dog for 3 years now but maybe its time for another.
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2017, 10:43:24 AM
I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.
Post by: Southpole on October 24, 2017, 11:14:09 AM
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.Yeah, I forgot to mention a donkey/burro. Some mules are hell on predators but that's because of the donkey side of them and you don't need something that large. Do they still have those blm burro adoption programs. Maybe you can snatch up one of those :dunno:. We have a cowboy friend that used to have a burro. He would use him for training purposes for horses that thought they were in charge. That burro would stock a horse 3 times his size and sometimes try and bite the belly out of them :yike:, they can be nasty creatures.
I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.
Post by: dan11011 on October 24, 2017, 11:22:55 AM
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.
I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.
Very interesting. I will have to look into the donkey thing. I would not be against getting one and trying that. I know they are great at protecting from coyotes. Why not lions. I also like the idea of having it always around living with the sheep and not roaming around separately like a dog.
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2017, 11:24:03 AM
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.Yeah, I forgot to mention a donkey/burro. Some mules are hell on predators but that's because of the donkey side of them and you don't need something that large. Do they still have those blm burro adoption programs. Maybe you can snatch up one of those :dunno:. We have a cowboy friend that used to have a burro. He would use him for training purposes for horses that thought they were in charge. That burro would stock a horse 3 times his size and sometimes try and bite the belly out of them :yike:, they can be nasty creatures.
I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.
All these mini donkeys do is run around kicking and biting each other non-stop. They're father and son.
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2017, 11:26:45 AM
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.
I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.
Very interesting. I will have to look into the donkey thing. I would not be against getting one and trying that. I know they are great at protecting from coyotes. Why not lions. I also like the idea of having it always around living with the sheep and not roaming around separately like a dog.
She was told they will kill a lion. Can't confirm or deny that, but living where she lives in the Blue Mountain Foothills, there are plenty of predators running around abd she's had -0- predator issues in 10+ years knock on wood. Her flock of guinea hens did disappear one by one at one point, but those things are dumb as a bag of hammers.
Post by: Machias on October 24, 2017, 11:34:32 AM
Post by: Southpole on October 24, 2017, 11:34:40 AM
They're definitely not flight animals like horses, that's for sure. Years ago my husband and I decided to take a little snow ride up in the hills with his horse and my Tennessee Walker mule. We were just riding along and all of the sudden my mule drifts off to the side of the road and starts digging. Then pretty soon he drops to his knees and grabs a dead Chow dog, with his teeth, from underneath the snow. We were really weirded out by this, but we figured, that's the donkey in him. He was hell on dogs, and what ever else we didn't when we weren't around.My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.Yeah, I forgot to mention a donkey/burro. Some mules are hell on predators but that's because of the donkey side of them and you don't need something that large. Do they still have those blm burro adoption programs. Maybe you can snatch up one of those :dunno:. We have a cowboy friend that used to have a burro. He would use him for training purposes for horses that thought they were in charge. That burro would stock a horse 3 times his size and sometimes try and bite the belly out of them :yike:, they can be nasty creatures.
I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.
All these mini donkeys do is run around kicking and biting each other non-stop. They're father and son.
Post by: Timberstalker on October 24, 2017, 11:43:02 AM
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.Yeah, I forgot to mention a donkey/burro. Some mules are hell on predators but that's because of the donkey side of them and you don't need something that large. Do they still have those blm burro adoption programs. Maybe you can snatch up one of those :dunno:. We have a cowboy friend that used to have a burro. He would use him for training purposes for horses that thought they were in charge. That burro would stock a horse 3 times his size and sometimes try and bite the belly out of them :yike:, they can be nasty creatures.
I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.
All these mini donkeys do is run around kicking and biting each other non-stop. They're father and son.
Acting like true JA's.
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2017, 11:46:47 AM
Don't get mules for livestock protection. They are just as likely to kill your sheep and goats. I would not recommend a mini donkey for protection from a lion. It will flat out kill it. You want at least a standard donkey. If it's a Jack, make dang sure it is fixed. Better if you get one that has been raised around sheep and goats. Be very careful around lambing and kidding time. Lots of times a newborn running around crying chasing after mom has been mistaken for a predator. Since it is new the donkey protects the mom.
The ones she has are 3’ ish at the withers. Got to be 350+ pounds.
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Post by: Southpole on October 24, 2017, 11:54:47 AM
Post by: Machias on October 24, 2017, 12:00:22 PM
Don't get mules for livestock protection. They are just as likely to kill your sheep and goats. I would not recommend a mini donkey for protection from a lion. It will flat out kill it. You want at least a standard donkey. If it's a Jack, make dang sure it is fixed. Better if you get one that has been raised around sheep and goats. Be very careful around lambing and kidding time. Lots of times a newborn running around crying chasing after mom has been mistaken for a predator. Since it is new the donkey protects the mom.
The ones she has are 3’ ish at the withers. Got to be 350+ pounds.
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Probably safe since there are 2. i would not recommend a single mini. :) They are tough as nails and fearless, but alone would not stand much of a chance against a lion.
Post by: JDHasty on October 24, 2017, 12:01:11 PM
Post by: JDHasty on October 24, 2017, 12:01:42 PM
Post by: JDHasty on October 24, 2017, 12:04:02 PM
Post by: Machias on October 24, 2017, 12:10:41 PM
In all seriousness, a intact Jack is a VERY dangerous animal!!!!
Post by: quadrafire on October 24, 2017, 12:11:26 PM
Uhmmmm.... What the heck was that dude doing with his pants down? :yike:
Post by: Southpole on October 24, 2017, 12:16:54 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: Ok, didn't need to see that!! :yike: :chuckle::yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
In all seriousness, a intact Jack is a VERY dangerous animal!!!!
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2017, 12:40:23 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: Ok, didn't need to see that!! :yike: :chuckle:
In all seriousness, a intact Jack is a VERY dangerous animal!!!!
Both of my inlaws boys are gelded.
Post by: tlbradford on October 24, 2017, 04:47:39 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2017, 05:04:09 PM
@Machias
@bearpaw
Post by: bearbaito6 on October 24, 2017, 05:44:51 PM
Post by: Southpole on October 24, 2017, 07:31:14 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 25, 2017, 08:04:50 AM
I chased a sheep killing cat up on Eloika rd this weekend, but pulled the dogs after it started raining and we were not moving the track. That cat (probably) got shot by a homeowner on Monday while killing chickens. Hopefully that was the culprit.
Post by: Machias on October 25, 2017, 10:41:07 AM
Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing? Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles. I would be interested to hear what others think. Especially @wacoyotehunter @bearpaw and @machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.
When I read the post with the llama and several sheep and that it was a confirmed cat kill, I immediately thought more than one cat. But you'd have to look at the sign around the kill sites to confirm it.
Post by: Gringo31 on October 25, 2017, 10:56:41 AM
The downside of a donkey is that they can be NOISY! The one I had was a mammoth jack and even tho I didn't have many neighbors, and they weren't that close to me......They noticed.
If I were you I'd play with some fairly "unwanted" critters, rescue types and see what happens. That way you don't have a lot to really lose.
Post by: Machias on October 25, 2017, 01:35:18 PM
The downside of a donkey is that they can be NOISY! The one I had was a mammoth jack and even tho I didn't have many neighbors, and they weren't that close to me......They noticed.
One of my favorite sounds!!! Loved it every time I would walk outside my Jack would say Hi. :)
Post by: Gringo31 on October 25, 2017, 04:11:13 PM
Post by: Southpole on October 25, 2017, 06:17:14 PM
I have always loved the singing! Mules/donkeys have always put a smile on my face everyday, they're clowns.The downside of a donkey is that they can be NOISY! The one I had was a mammoth jack and even tho I didn't have many neighbors, and they weren't that close to me......They noticed.
One of my favorite sounds!!! Loved it every time I would walk outside my Jack would say Hi. :)
Post by: Machias on October 25, 2017, 09:02:04 PM
Post by: bearpaw on October 26, 2017, 12:30:49 PM
Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing? Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles. I would be interested to hear what others think. Especially @WAcoyotehunter @bearpaw and @Machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.
It's not at all unusual for 1 lion to kill multiple sheep or goats. It's like turning a house cat loose on a family of mice, they can't stop, they will likely kill every mouse they see, same with sheep and goats and lions.
Post by: Machias on October 26, 2017, 12:39:45 PM
Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing? Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles. I would be interested to hear what others think. Especially @WAcoyotehunter @bearpaw and @Machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.
It's not at all unusual for 1 lion to kill multiple sheep or goats. It's like turning a house cat loose on a family of mice, they can't stop, they will likely kill every mouse they see, same with sheep and goats and lions.
Good to know, I had not run across it so far. Thanks!
Post by: dan11011 on October 26, 2017, 03:17:57 PM
Post by: Southpole on October 26, 2017, 03:38:01 PM
Is that more common to a younger cat honing his skills by killing like it's still a game?Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing? Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles. I would be interested to hear what others think. Especially @WAcoyotehunter @bearpaw and @Machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.
It's not at all unusual for 1 lion to kill multiple sheep or goats. It's like turning a house cat loose on a family of mice, they can't stop, they will likely kill every mouse they see, same with sheep and goats and lions.